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OdysseyRe Donates to Romney SuperPAC


KFRCanuk
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A million bucks?  Jesus Christ, that's like 5-cents per share!

 

What the hell are these guys thinking?  Giving away 5-cents per share to politicians!  At least give it to a worthy cause (of which there are many!).  I can at least buy the notion of "doing good by doing well" but  what is this?

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Peter Lovell, counsel general for OdysseyRe, said "neither our parent company nor any other foreign nationals were part of the decision-making process to contribute to the SuperPAC."

 

The subsidiary chose to donate to Romney because, as an international reinsurer located in the United States, it operates under "one of the highest corporate tax rates in its industry," Lovell added.

 

"Gov. Romney has proposed meaningful corporate tax reform that would help to level the playing field; consequently, a victory by Gov. Romney in November would be beneficial to OdysseyRe."

 

Nonetheless, officials at Campaign Legal Center — a non-profit, non-partisan campaign finance watchdog — have said OdysseyRe's donation "raises some legal red flags."

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Yeah, this is just ridiculous!  A completely speculative investment in the POSSIBILITY that Romney wins and reduces tax rates.  How do you justify this to the owners of the company, who are left with egg on their face and are the ones dealing with the media and fallout.  What does this say about the thought process at the subsidiary...someone should be taken to task on this one.  There's latitude for the subsidiaries and then there is just stupid...someone made a stupid decision at Odyssey.  Cheers!

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How else are they suppose to defend to thier shareholders that are domiciled in a high tax area and not move to Bermuda?  As I see it the alternatives are try to equalize the tax treatment and keep job and taxes in the US or move to Bermuda.  I think this is part of the first strategy and will at least bring the issue to the surface so some meaningful debate can occur versus just moving to Bermuda and leaving the US with less tax revenues.

 

Packer

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How else are they suppose to defend to thier shareholders that are domiciled in a high tax area and not move to Bermuda?  As I see it the alternatives are try to equalize the tax treatment and keep job and taxes in the US or move to Bermuda.  I think this is part of the first strategy and will at least bring the issue to the surface so some meaningful debate can occur versus just moving to Bermuda and leaving the US with less tax revenues.

 

Packer

 

Okay, so they want to lobby congress for favourable tax treatment.  Why does that cost $1 million in a single donation?  And why is it not being undertaken through an industry association which is financially supported by numerous insurers who have common public policy interests?

 

Just as Buffett has suggested that owners ought to focus on "look through earnings" I say we should also focus on "look through donations."  My share of ORH's donation is far more than I would ever want to contribute to any US politician...and I do not see the prospective financial return to justify it.

 

SJ

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I read a good book 'What Would Ben Graham Do Now?' by Jeffery Towson where he discussed how the Middle East and much of Asia capitalism works.  Many call it 'crony' capitalism but that is just how business is done in those areas -- oops, I mean all areas.  At least for the US, we have moved more and more towards the Corporatocracy.

 

Recall -- some guy by the name of Buffett is doing it in a big and public way but there is another guy named Munger that balances him out, somewhat. 

 

 

Cheers

JEast

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Did you know this issue existed before the donation? I did not.  Would you have paid as much attention if it was done under the auspices of any industry group? I would not have.  It may be a way to at least make the issue known and part of the debate.  Just some thoughts.

 

Packer   

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How else are they suppose to defend to thier shareholders that are domiciled in a high tax area and not move to Bermuda?  As I see it the alternatives are try to equalize the tax treatment and keep job and taxes in the US or move to Bermuda.  I think this is part of the first strategy and will at least bring the issue to the surface so some meaningful debate can occur versus just moving to Bermuda and leaving the US with less tax revenues.

 

Packer

 

Okay, so they want to lobby congress for favourable tax treatment.  Why does that cost $1 million in a single donation?  And why is it not being undertaken through an industry association which is financially supported by numerous insurers who have common public policy interests?

 

Just as Buffett has suggested that owners ought to focus on "look through earnings" I say we should also focus on "look through donations."  My share of ORH's donation is far more than I would ever want to contribute to any US politician...and I do not see the prospective financial return to justify it.

 

SJ

 

Exactly SJ...you nailed it on the head!  That's why I'm not pleased at all, and it should not happen again.  Cheers!

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There's latitude for the subsidiaries and then there is just stupid...someone made a stupid decision at Odyssey.  Cheers!

 

+1 on this. I wonder who knew about it. I guess we will never know.

 

This is definitely not something that would have been approved by head office in my opinion.  I think it happened and then head office was left to deal with the media and consequences.  Instead of blowing a milion dollars, Odyssey should have petitioned state and federal governments through education and information...someone should have taken that initiative...instead of simply throwing money at any specific political party.  I would not have been happy with this whether it went to Romney or Obama.  Just a waste of shareholder money and I deem it something out of the operating mandate of any corporation.  Cheers!   

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There's latitude for the subsidiaries and then there is just stupid...someone made a stupid decision at Odyssey.  Cheers!

 

+1 on this. I wonder who knew about it. I guess we will never know.

 

This is definitely not something that would have been approved by head office in my opinion.  I think it happened and then head office was left to deal with the media and consequences.  Instead of blowing a milion dollars, Odyssey should have petitioned state and federal governments through education and information...someone should have taken that initiative...instead of simply throwing money at any specific political party.  I would not have been happy with this whether it went to Romney or Obama.  Just a waste of shareholder money and I deem it something out of the operating mandate of any corporation.  Cheers! 

 

Come on.. let's be serious here guys. Your hero Watsa clearly shares the same fears that  every other responsible business man does and made a transparent decision to avoid another 4 years. To think that the head office knew nothing about this is ridiculous.

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There's latitude for the subsidiaries and then there is just stupid...someone made a stupid decision at Odyssey.  Cheers!

 

+1 on this. I wonder who knew about it. I guess we will never know.

 

This is definitely not something that would have been approved by head office in my opinion.  I think it happened and then head office was left to deal with the media and consequences.  Instead of blowing a milion dollars, Odyssey should have petitioned state and federal governments through education and information...someone should have taken that initiative...instead of simply throwing money at any specific political party.  I would not have been happy with this whether it went to Romney or Obama.  Just a waste of shareholder money and I deem it something out of the operating mandate of any corporation.  Cheers! 

 

Come on.. let's be serious here guys. Your hero Watsa clearly shares the same fears that  every other responsible business man does and made a transparent decision to avoid another 4 years. To think that the head office knew nothing about this is ridiculous.

 

Of course head office knew about it.  Seems a bit egregious but then I have no idea how much Google, MSFT, Apple, GE, P&G, or anyone else has donated to candidates.  Shows you where US politics is at. 

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There's latitude for the subsidiaries and then there is just stupid...someone made a stupid decision at Odyssey.  Cheers!

 

+1 on this. I wonder who knew about it. I guess we will never know.

 

This is definitely not something that would have been approved by head office in my opinion.  I think it happened and then head office was left to deal with the media and consequences.  Instead of blowing a milion dollars, Odyssey should have petitioned state and federal governments through education and information...someone should have taken that initiative...instead of simply throwing money at any specific political party.  I would not have been happy with this whether it went to Romney or Obama.  Just a waste of shareholder money and I deem it something out of the operating mandate of any corporation.  Cheers! 

 

Come on.. let's be serious here guys. Your hero Watsa clearly shares the same fears that  every other responsible business man does and made a transparent decision to avoid another 4 years. To think that the head office knew nothing about this is ridiculous.

 

Of course head office knew about it.  Seems a bit egregious but then I have no idea how much Google, MSFT, Apple, GE, P&G, or anyone else has donated to candidates.  Shows you where US politics is at.

 

It shows you that some people who have been living on planet earth for half a century or more realize that this is one of the most important elections in american history (IE: Jack Welch) while others foolishly believe that we will be able to reverse these policies if we go too far.

 

Is anyone seeing what is going on in California. That is merely a preview of HyperInflation. The world's resources are not as elastic as the PHD Standard would have you believe. Keep printing keep subsidizing unproductive classes, in the end they will suffer the most.

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Is anyone seeing what is going on in California. That is merely a preview of HyperInflation. The world's resources are not as elastic as the PHD Standard would have you believe. Keep printing keep subsidizing unproductive classes, in the end they will suffer the most.

 

Moore, how much inflation is hyperinflation? When will it happen? What odds are you giving?

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Moore_capital, are you doing anything different or special now in view of the money printing...?increasing hard assets ? gold ?realestate ?buying a farm

 

Read my post history we have been positioning for this since Lehman. If anything we will be liquidating into the craziness.

 

Thanks.

 

Have read your past posts.

 

You re looking to raise cash if we have a "melt up"?

 

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Is anyone seeing what is going on in California. That is merely a preview of HyperInflation.

 

You mean the rich women with the collagen-injected lips?

 

I'm in California but I don't know what you mean -- what are you seeing hyperinflating price-wise that is different from other parts of the country?

 

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Moore_capital, are you doing anything different or special now in view of the money printing...?increasing hard assets ? gold ?realestate ?buying a farm

 

Read my post history we have been positioning for this since Lehman. If anything we will be liquidating into the craziness.

 

Thanks.

 

Have read your past posts.

 

You re looking to raise cash if we have a "melt up"?

 

Yes will look to raise cash into any cycle where commodities begin to rise abnormally because the next step will be monetary responsibility. This has always been the way of the world. I recommend the David Einhorn Jelly Donut essay to understand the dynamics of easy money.

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The CPI for California "all urban consumers" is rising at slower pace than that of the nation as a whole.

 

http://www.dir.ca.gov/OPRL/CPI/PresentCCPI.PDF

 

Period is Jan 2011 to Aug 2012.

 

Do you really think gas in california hit near $6 because of a refinery outage? Or because gas has been subsidized and money has been cheapened to the point where both he productive and unproductive classes are able to consume fuel at prices that reflect the commodity being a right and not a privilege. Commodities should be produced at the margin but when money loses it's value commodities become inelastic. What happened in California simply highlights that within a very short period of time ( because the consumption patterns for certain commodities do not reflect the productive levels of society) there could be rapid and sustainable nominal increases in the prices of commodities that have little to do with the cost @ the margin theory.

 

The other thing you have to understand is that investments are not being made right now in Copper/Zinc/Agri/Iron Ore that will support the nominal fiat denominated demand in say 5-10 years. And these kinds of metals require 5-10 year lead times. So this is yet another catalyst in what we project will be hyperinflation.

 

It can all reverse if the deficit and debt levels return to sustainable levels reflecting the productivity of society as measured by the tax receipts.

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Do you really think gas in california hit near $6 because of a refinery outage?

 

$6?  Wow, glad I'm not living in that part of California.

 

The refinery is back online now, so soon you'll have your answer.  Will prices decline in the weeks ahead?

 

Here is some more information for you:

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2012/10/07/calif-gas-prices-hit-all-time-high/1617801/

 

 

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