Cryptocurrencies

[MungerWunger]

crypto summit live stream: 

 

[rkbabang]

3 hours ago, Buckeye said:

I think it’s hilarious that we have been hearing for 10+ years how BTC was the ultimate asset, because it didn’t need the government, or banks or regulators to exist.  And now these same folks are clamoring for a government bailout of their BTC

 

What a disingenuous group of people…tells you about all you need to know. 

 

Talk about a bad take.  People want their governments to buy bitcoin because they know that other governments are going to and they don't want their country left behind.   Bitcoin doesn't need your government, your government needs Bitcoin.  I'd just assume no governments buy it until its too late. I'd love to see a timeline where some companies and individuals become more rich and powerful than nation states 10-15 years from now.

 

[Buckeye]

1 hour ago, rkbabang said:

 

Talk about a bad take.  People want their governments to buy bitcoin because they know that other governments are going to and they don't want their country left behind.   Bitcoin doesn't need your government, your government needs Bitcoin.  I'd just assume no governments buy it until its too late. I'd love to see a timeline where some companies and individuals become more rich and powerful than nation states 10-15 years from now.

 

You’re right, that was a bad take! Thanks for warning us beforehand I didn’t realize you were so pro big-government. 

Edited yesterday at 12:24 AM by Buckeye

[TwoCitiesCapital]

1 hour ago, rkbabang said:

 

Talk about a bad take.  People want their governments to buy bitcoin because they know that other governments are going to and they don't want their country left behind.   Bitcoin doesn't need your government, your government needs Bitcoin.  I'd just assume no governments buy it until its too late. I'd love to see a timeline where some companies and individuals become more rich and powerful than nation states 10-15 years from now.

 

 

We already have that with some of centibillionaires as is. I'm not actually sure that is an outcome I want seeing how those handful have behaved. 

[TwoCitiesCapital]

5 hours ago, Buckeye said:

I think it’s hilarious that we have been hearing for 10+ years how BTC was the ultimate asset, because it didn’t need the government, or banks or regulators to exist.  And now these same folks are clamoring for a government bailout of their BTC

 

What a disingenuous group of people…tells you about all you need to know. 

 

What is more disingenuous is that there's been a group of people in this thread talking for awhile about governments adopting it and they were told it was only "shit hole countries" that were considering it and that the US would NEVER do anything of the sort.

 

Probably the same people who said it wouldn't get an ETF approval, or that companies would never adopt it on balance sheet, or that 20k in 2018 was the penultimate top to a super bubble. And yet...

 

Here we are. With it progressing in adoption as Bitcoin proponents have said it would for years - and people nitpicking it the whole way up with "well, it's not 100% what you said" or "now you NEED the US gov't for your thesis" while missing the entire ride to 100k, 500k, and beyond. 

 

 

[rkbabang]

5 minutes ago, TwoCitiesCapital said:

 

We already have that with some of centibillionaires as is. I'm not actually sure that is an outcome I want seeing how those handful have behaved. 

 

"Genocide: among other things, the killing of people by a government because of their indelible group membership (race, ethnicity, religion, language).

 

Politicide: the murder of any person or people by a government because of their politics or for political purposes.
 

Mass Murder: the indiscriminate killing of any person or people by a government.

 

Democide: The murder of any person or people by a government, including genocide, politicide, and mass murder."

 

--R.J. Rummel

 

 

The Democide numbers for the 20th century alone was over 130 million people and that doesn't include war deaths.

 

How many hundreds of millions of innocent men, women, and children have these centibillionaires murdered?

 

[TwoCitiesCapital]

20 minutes ago, rkbabang said:

 

"Genocide: among other things, the killing of people by a government because of their indelible group membership (race, ethnicity, religion, language).

 

Politicide: the murder of any person or people by a government because of their politics or for political purposes.
 

Mass Murder: the indiscriminate killing of any person or people by a government.

 

Democide: The murder of any person or people by a government, including genocide, politicide, and mass murder."

 

--R.J. Rummel

 

 

The Democide numbers for the 20th century alone was over 130 million people and that doesn't include war deaths.

 

How many hundreds of millions of innocent men, women, and children have these centibillionaires murdered?

 

 

Probably quite small because they don't' have armies at their disposal - but it's not because wealth/power is better concentrated with them or that they wouldn't be doing similar things if they DID have armies at their disposal (which is a natural outcome to them having more resources than nation states).

 

Just look at the Wagner Group and its involvement in Russia's military engagements - that was a private billionaire with his own army and was hardly doing good with it. Imagine a world with Wagner groups all over instead of state backed militaries - I can easily see a path for Democide to be significantly higher and wider spread as soon as these gang wars erupt over turf disputes and etc as the lines won't be clearly drawn or internationally recognized like sovereign borders are. 

 

I won't speak for other governments, but as soon as the US populace is fed up with our military bombing brown babies overseas and giving our young men PTSD - our numbers would drop. But as it stands now, neither Republicans nor Democrats have a differentiated view on foreign policy, meddling in other countries affairs, nor a high bar for military engagement so we continue to bully others with our military might instead of more diplomatic means. 

Edited yesterday at 01:14 AM by TwoCitiesCapital

[james22]

I've no intention of raising an army.

[Paarslaars]

The public stuff of the summit looked a bit like everyone needed to jerk off Trump for a moment. 

 

Curious what was discussed behind close doors.

[Dave86ch]

10 hours ago, TwoCitiesCapital said:

 

What is more disingenuous is that there's been a group of people in this thread talking for awhile about governments adopting it and they were told it was only "shit hole countries" that were considering it and that the US would NEVER do anything of the sort.

 

Probably the same people who said it wouldn't get an ETF approval, or that companies would never adopt it on balance sheet, or that 20k in 2018 was the penultimate top to a super bubble. And yet...

 

Here we are. With it progressing in adoption as Bitcoin proponents have said it would for years - and people nitpicking it the whole way up with "well, it's not 100% what you said" or "now you NEED the US gov't for your thesis" while missing the entire ride to 100k, 500k, and beyond. 

 

 

+1

Now they're feeling cognitive dissonance and need to vent in this thread.

[Dave86ch]

12 hours ago, rkbabang said:

 

Talk about a bad take.  People want their governments to buy bitcoin because they know that other governments are going to and they don't want their country left behind.   Bitcoin doesn't need your government, your government needs Bitcoin.  I'd just assume no governments buy it until its too late. I'd love to see a timeline where some companies and individuals become more rich and powerful than nation states 10-15 years from now.

 

It has happened many times throughout history, and history just rhymes.

 

We now confront an inflection point characteristic of transitional eras:

 

The Pax maintained by a dominant empire diminishes

The monetary order undergoes structural transformation

New frontiers (digital, rather than territorial) emerge

Strategically minded individuals exploit these shifts

The internet and digital technologies have fundamentally reconfigured power dynamics, enabling individuals to attain financial independence and autonomy unbound by traditional geographic or political constraints.

 

For the technically adept, decentralized systems now offer tools to secure economic sovereignty.

This does not necessarily imply surpassing nation-states in wealth accumulation, but rather achieving sufficient resilience to voice opinions without incurring financial reprisal.

Edited yesterday at 11:20 AM by Dave86ch

[Paarslaars]

Utah dropped out of the BTC race, it's now between Texas and Arizona.

[james22]

 

[james22]

On 3/6/2025 at 11:29 AM, TwoCitiesCapital said:

There is no way the US government will be able to acquire enough to matter relative to its deficits OR debt - so I don't want them to try (as a taxpayer).

 

. . . the US government is better off focusing on debt/deficits/budget and not wasting time on this . . .

 

A U.S. Strategic Bitcoin Reserve Could Help Offset National Debt

 

Try our calculator to see the potential impact on U.S. debt

 

https://www.vaneck.com/us/en/us-bitcoin-strategic-reserve-calculator/

[SharperDingaan]

The 'summit' was a nothing burger, as evidenced by BTC falling 5% after the event.

 

BTC rises/falls based on money flow. Include BTC in portfolio allocations; flow goes up and prices rise (ie: adoption). Put the global economy in the shitter, and the opposit occurrs.

 

The more whales holding BTC the less volatile it becomes. Price rises (in fiat terms) primarily because the fiat is devaluing, and the US is becoming progessively more unstable. Hence, the more disruptive Trump is, the richer we all get; all hail the right hand leg of a  long straddle 

 

BTC will really jump when one of the big techs collapses; today its the magnificent seven PLUS BTC; just as when an I-Bank collapses, the rest become scum ...... and whatever remains ..... benefits. Put a sustained global bank run on Tesla, and it WILL collapse; and a lot of nations/competitors will be more than happy to give it a nudge towards bankrupting Elon. Nobody likes MAGAlomaniacs  All good for BTC.

 

Just a different POV.

 

SD

 

Edited 18 hours ago by SharperDingaan

[TwoCitiesCapital]

3 hours ago, james22 said:

 

A U.S. Strategic Bitcoin Reserve Could Help Offset National Debt

 

Try our calculator to see the potential impact on U.S. debt

 

https://www.vaneck.com/us/en/us-bitcoin-strategic-reserve-calculator/

 

This whole calculator is horseshit because it ignores the fact of what happens to the price the moment the US starts accumulating with the intent of getting to 500k or 1 million BTC. 

 

The current deficit is basically the size of BTCs whole market cap. Assuming the US govt could buy 100% of BTC today, it would offer 1-year of borrowing and basically be useless thereafter because now there is no network. 

 

Any significant buying by the US government would drive the price up enormously before they could acquire a stake large enough to matter to the debt or deficit even if BTC 10x or 100x from here. 

[Milu]

2 hours ago, SharperDingaan said:

The 'summit' was a nothing burger, as evidenced by BTC falling 5% after the event.

 

BTC rises/falls based on money flow. Include BTC in portfolio allocations; flow goes up and prices rise (ie: adoption). Put the global economy in the shitter, and the opposit occurrs.

 

The more whales holding BTC the less volatile it becomes. Price rises (in fiat terms) primarily because the fiat is devaluing, and the US is becoming progessively more unstable. Hence, the more disruptive Trump is, the richer we all get; all hail the right hand leg of a  long straddle 

 

BTC will really jump when one of the big techs collapses; today its the magnificent seven PLUS BTC; just as when an I-Bank collapses, the rest become scum ...... and whatever remains ..... benefits. Put a sustained global bank run on Tesla, and it WILL collapse; and a lot of nations/competitors will be more than happy to give it a nudge towards bankrupting Elon. Nobody likes MAGAlomaniacs  All good for BTC.

 

Just a different POV.

 

SD

 

Not quite sure how Tesla, a company with a net $30b cash position gets ‘bankrupted’ exactly? People seem to forget that world is a very big place and while Elon is currently ruffling some feathers in Canada and Europe, in America due to its polarised political environment Tesla is likely gaining an equal amount of customers to ones he is losing, and in china I can’t imagine the typical consumer gives a single thought about Musk’s behaviour. 
 

I’d say there is likely some impact (5% or so) to overall global sales which obviously isn’t ideal but this just results in the company selling perhaps  1.9m vehicles this year instead of 2m. 

[james22]

3 hours ago, SharperDingaan said:

The 'summit' was a nothing burger, as evidenced by BTC falling 5% after the event.

 

Nah, investors either didn't understand what was delivered or had unrealistic expectations.

 

But the market will figure it out (or it'll be provided additional evidence of buying intent) soon enough. 

 

 

And there's probably a bit of manipulation going on as well.

 

3 hours ago, SharperDingaan said:

BTC rises/falls based on money flow. Include BTC in portfolio allocations; flow goes up and prices rise (ie: adoption). Put the global economy in the shitter, and the opposit occurrs.

 

This is still true. And will be as long as only BTC trades 24/7.

 

3 hours ago, SharperDingaan said:

The more whales holding BTC the less volatile it becomes.

 

Whales can manipulate the market. They'll keep the volatility high.

 

3 hours ago, SharperDingaan said:

BTC will really jump when one of the big techs collapses; today its the magnificent seven PLUS BTC; just as when an I-Bank collapses, the rest become scum ...... and whatever remains ..... benefits.

 

Once the market weighs them by earnings and adoption, they'll diverge.

 

But you're probably right. BTC will be increasingly seen as an alternative.

[james22]

Probably doesn't mean anything.

 

 

[Dave86ch]

10 hours ago, james22 said:

 

Nah, investors either didn't understand what was delivered or had unrealistic expectations.

 

But the market will figure it out (or it'll be provided additional evidence of buying intent) soon enough. 

 

 

And there's probably a bit of manipulation going on as well.

 

 

This is still true. And will be as long as only BTC trades 24/7.

 

 

Whales can manipulate the market. They'll keep the volatility high.

 

 

Once the market weighs them by earnings and adoption, they'll diverge.

 

But you're probably right. BTC will be increasingly seen as an alternative.

 

Mr 100 is buying.