They're here

[Haryana]

 

A brief history of American UFOs:

 

 

[Cor]

If true, do you guys think some of these advanced materials or tech could end up in the hands of a publicly-traded company for the purposes of reverse engineering and creating something useful to businesses or consumers? 

[ValueArb]

On 6/13/2023 at 6:26 AM, Castanza said:

 

I hear you on all of this and agree! Until someone provides direct evidence I take peoples word as just bullshit. 

 

However....

 

What about videos like the infamous tic-tac? Or the metal sphere? There are unexplained things caught on camera. I have two friends who work in the defense industry both in aerospace. One works for Lockheed and the other Northrop. They have both work on the development of airframes Obviously they are limited to what they can say and have TS clearance all that and I realize these are just two people with limited scope etc.. But I can that they said they've seen the videos and have absolutely no effing clue what could move like that. I mean look at SpaceX...undoubtedly our most advanced airframe/rocket systems no? Doesn't even come close to what was seen. So even if this isn't "extraterrestrial" then it should be concerning that someone out there (be it govt or private) has some craft that far surpasses our known capabilities and seems to defy known physics. I mean the Pentagon said the tech outstrips ours by 100 - 1000 years and that we don't control the airspace? Why would they say this? The Tic Tac was said to be moving 13k mph....the fastest aircraft we know of goes 4500mph. The fastest missiles in the world are a hair slower than that. 

 

Until Joe Rogan has a live alien sitting across from him on his podcast I'll be a skeptic. But you've got to admit, some of this is getting wild.

 

Former director of ATTIP:  "Imagine a technology that can do 6-to-700 g-forces, that can fly at 13,000 miles an hour, that can evade radar and that can fly through air and water and possibly space. And oh, by the way, has no obvious signs of propulsion, no wings, no control surfaces and yet still can defy the natural effects of Earth's gravity. That's precisely what we're seeing."

 

 

 

The problem is there is no compelling evidence that the "tic tac" ever did any of these things or isn't just a ballon or drone. Filming using a low resolution video from a moving platform miles away can lead to all sorts of mis-measurements.

 

Secondly, traveling at 13,000 MPH would ionize the atmosphere around in spectacular fashion. No missiles can travel remotely near those speeds unless they are outside of the atmosphere. Look at all they had to do to keep the X-15 and SR-71s from incinerating themselves.

[Castanza]

5 hours ago, ValueArb said:

 

The problem is there is no compelling evidence that the "tic tac" ever did any of these things or isn't just a ballon or drone. Filming using a low resolution video from a moving platform miles away can lead to all sorts of mis-measurements.

 

Secondly, traveling at 13,000 MPH would ionize the atmosphere around in spectacular fashion. No missiles can travel remotely near those speeds unless they are outside of the atmosphere. Look at all they had to do to keep the X-15 and SR-71s from incinerating themselves.

I disagree there. There are tons of whitenesses for the tic tac. There are a dozen very qualified individuals who said it’s significant. And yes that is exactly part of the mystery. How is an object moving without showing any heat signatures, exhaust or intake etc. You’re describing it in terms of our tech and understanding of physics.

I think that’s the point of “UFO” no? I’m not an aerospace engineer or a physicist. But when I see a lot of credible people saying “yeah we don’t know what that was” I pay attention. People who deeply understand the systems that tracked it and people who deeply understand the aerospace capabilities we have. 
 

 

Good example of someone reasonable and qualified to talk on the unusualness of the “thing”. 
 

Edit: You might find this interesting. Shows FLIR camera shots of what heat signatures would look like. In the comments there are some links to better examples of systems from the same timeframe that still show heat signatures from engines etc. Every expert I’ve heard discuss it said that there are no heat signatures. The pilots clocked it going INTO the wind. I mean they got a target lock on it. I think 99% of things can be debunked. But this one so far has stood up against the best criticism. 
 

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Castanza

[ValueArb]

14 hours ago, Castanza said:

I disagree there. There are tons of whitenesses for the tic tac. There are a dozen very qualified individuals who said it’s significant. And yes that is exactly part of the mystery. How is an object moving without showing any heat signatures, exhaust or intake etc. You’re describing it in terms of our tech and understanding of physics.

I think that’s the point of “UFO” no? I’m not an aerospace engineer or a physicist. But when I see a lot of credible people saying “yeah we don’t know what that was” I pay attention. People who deeply understand the systems that tracked it and people who deeply understand the aerospace capabilities we have. 
 

 

Good example of someone reasonable and qualified to talk on the unusualness of the “thing”. 
 

Edit: You might find this interesting. Shows FLIR camera shots of what heat signatures would look like. In the comments there are some links to better examples of systems from the same timeframe that still show heat signatures from engines etc. Every expert I’ve heard discuss it said that there are no heat signatures. The pilots clocked it going INTO the wind. I mean they got a target lock on it. I think 99% of things can be debunked. But this one so far has stood up against the best criticism. 
 

 

 

I'm not talking about heat signatures from the engines, though the lack of any are incredibly suspicious in itself.

 

I'm talking about the heat generated by compressing the air in it's path at enormous rates of speed. At even mach 3 at these altitudes would leave a huge heat plume behind it. So if it exists, 

 

1) It's not going at high rates of speeds.

2) Its a projection, not an object.

3) its not subject to basic physics we've repeatedly demonstrated as universal.

 

And if it's #3, then why aren't we talking about whether these are angels? If you believe these things can violate the "laws" of physics why assume aliens and why not go full supernatural deity?

[rkbabang]

38 minutes ago, ValueArb said:

 

I'm not talking about heat signatures from the engines, though the lack of any are incredibly suspicious in itself.

 

I'm talking about the heat generated by compressing the air in it's path at enormous rates of speed. At even mach 3 at these altitudes would leave a huge heat plume behind it. So if it exists, 

 

1) It's not going at high rates of speeds.

2) Its a projection, not an object.

3) its not subject to basic physics we've repeatedly demonstrated as universal.

 

And if it's #3, then why aren't we talking about whether these are angels? If you believe these things can violate the "laws" of physics why assume aliens and why not go full supernatural deity?

 

As Arthur C. Clarke observed  “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.".   I would expect any civilization who could actually get here to Earth to have technology that we couldn't possibly understand.   The article I posted above talks about a craft that is 30 ft x 30 ft being the size of a football stadium on the inside.  Of course that isn't possible with our understanding of physics.  Moving through the atmosphere without compressing the air and generating heat isn't possible with our current understanding of physics.  BUT.   Traveling to other stars in a reasonable amount of time also isn't possible with our current understanding of physics.   So either they have come here and can do things that look like magic to us, or they have not been here at all.

Edited June 16, 2023 by rkbabang

[tede02]

 

This 2020 documentary was eye opening to me. It covers the history of the ufo/uap topic going back to WWII. Prior to a few years ago, I gave no thought to this subject other than figuring it was nothing more than tabloid/click bait trash. But after seeing this documentary, hearing from navy pilots and other credible observers, plus watching the constant drip of new videos leak out of the department of defense, it's persuaded me to keep an open mind that there may be something to all this. 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by tede02

[Thrifty3000]

On 6/16/2023 at 10:25 AM, ValueArb said:

 

I'm not talking about heat signatures from the engines, though the lack of any are incredibly suspicious in itself.

 

I'm talking about the heat generated by compressing the air in it's path at enormous rates of speed. At even mach 3 at these altitudes would leave a huge heat plume behind it. So if it exists, 

 

1) It's not going at high rates of speeds.

2) Its a projection, not an object.

3) its not subject to basic physics we've repeatedly demonstrated as universal.

 

And if it's #3, then why aren't we talking about whether these are angels? If you believe these things can violate the "laws" of physics why assume aliens and why not go full supernatural deity?

Maaaan, don’t you know you can create a gravity distortion engine by converting element 115 to dark matter, concentrating the resulting antigravity field in the direction you want to travel, and move friction-free through space?! Haha. I learned that from a Joe Rogan podcast with Bob Lazar.

[Thrifty3000]

If you really want to go down the hole with this stuff I recommend these two conversations.

 

Joe Rogan interview with Bob Lazar:

 

The one with Bob Lazar is interesting because he made claims over 30 years ago that couldn’t be proven or verified at the time. And over the years more and more of his claims have been validated. For example he claimed having access to technology that used Element 115, which wasn’t even on the periodic table back then, and couldn’t be proven to exist until recently with the construction of large hadron colliders.

 

Joe Rogan interview with James Fox:

 

The one with James Fox is interesting because he recounts multiple examples of the most credible events - events where there are a variety of mutual witnesses and significant evidence. He recently made a documentary about what he thinks is probably the most significant event to date. It happened in Brazil in the 90s and was witnessed by civilians of all ages, police, doctors, military, politicians etc.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Thrifty3000

[Thrifty3000]

11 hours ago, tede02 said:

 

This 2020 documentary was eye opening to me. It covers the history of the ufo/uap topic going back to WWII. Prior to a few years ago, I gave no thought to this subject other than figuring it was nothing more than tabloid/click bait trash. But after seeing this documentary, hearing from navy pilots and other credible observers, plus watching the constant drip of new videos leak out of the department of defense, it's persuaded me to keep an open mind that there may be something to all this. 

 

 

Looks like this one was also made by the James Fox fella I mentioned above. Will check it out.

 

Here’s the trailer for his new documentary about the Brazil incident…

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Thrifty3000

[ValueArb]

1 hour ago, Thrifty3000 said:

Maaaan, don’t you know you can create a gravity distortion engine by converting element 115 to dark matter, concentrating the resulting antigravity field in the direction you want to travel, and move friction-free through space?! Haha. I learned that from a Joe Rogan podcast with Bob Lazar.

To be fair the reason I was late to finding this out is that I watched Rogans interview with RFK Jr first and they told me how wifi opens up the blood-brain barrier to toxins, so I had to turn mine off and now my only Internet access is through a 9.6 kbaud modem.

[Thrifty3000]

1 hour ago, ValueArb said:

To be fair the reason I was late to finding this out is that I watched Rogans interview with RFK Jr first and they told me how wifi opens up the blood-brain barrier to toxins, so I had to turn mine off and now my only Internet access is through a 9.6 kbaud modem.

Hahaha! 9.6kbaud modem. I’m having flashbacks to my Napster days.

[Thrifty3000]

14 hours ago, tede02 said:

 

This 2020 documentary was eye opening to me. It covers the history of the ufo/uap topic going back to WWII. Prior to a few years ago, I gave no thought to this subject other than figuring it was nothing more than tabloid/click bait trash. But after seeing this documentary, hearing from navy pilots and other credible observers, plus watching the constant drip of new videos leak out of the department of defense, it's persuaded me to keep an open mind that there may be something to all this. 

 

 

Just watched it! Such a good documentary. Thanks for suggesting.

 

I should preface that I’m one of the MOST gullible people I’ve ever met, BUT I’m SO EFFING convinced this stuff is legit!

 

I think the alien case is a lot like the COVID lab-origin case. There is so much undisputed, consistent, and highly credible evidence from such a wide array of sources out there (including photo and video evidence in the case of UFOs), that the burden of proof has been shifted from proving it right to proving it wrong!

 

Luckily we have decades (and maybe centuries) of evidence that these visitors are friendly observers rather than threats. Humans are merely creatures wandering around the “Earth zoo”.

 

FWIW I’m basing my entire thesis on about 10 hours of super-entertaining documentaries and Joe Rogan podcasts! Haha.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Thrifty3000

[Parsad]

A sad tale...whether true or not.  I feel for the author!  Cheers!

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/dad-famous-alien-abductee-thought-131814962.html

[tede02]

On 6/26/2023 at 7:50 PM, Parsad said:

A sad tale...whether true or not.  I feel for the author!  Cheers!

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/dad-famous-alien-abductee-thought-131814962.html

 

Cattle mutilations are a really weird phenomena too. I've read about it a little bit in recent years. There are cases globally. In the US it has been investigated by law enforcement and various individuals. From what I understand, no one has ever been caught and there are remarkable similarities in incidents spanning the globe. Like I mentioned in a previous post, prior to a few years ago, I dismissed all this paranormal stuff as tabloid trash but after some of the UFO developments in recent years and listening to serious and sober people that have investigated these topics, it's opened my mind to the notion that we might know a lot less than we think. 

[Castanza]

Podcast by Ryan Graves with Commander David Fravor being interviewed. Seems like the most credible guys currently. Good discussion between them that goes into the technical difficulty of what they saw, their credentials and why they are qualified to speak on what they observed. I do like that he is quick to point out the bullshit people want to tack onto this incident.  He’s not speculating about aliens but simply pointing out that something is there and can do things well beyond what we are capable of. 
 

The Grusch stuff seems to have very little credibility at this point. However these two guys seem to have a pretty solid case with first hand evidence of something out there. 
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/merged/id1664932431?i=1000619687921

[Malmqky]

https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/uap_amendment.pdf

[maplevalue]

 

Absolutely wild the type of stuff being claimed by these 3 seemingly credible individuals. 
 

The relatively tepid coverage of this by the news media is a good reminder that their filter for what is important news is not a great one. 

[Parsad]

5 hours ago, maplevalue said:

 

Absolutely wild the type of stuff being claimed by these 3 seemingly credible individuals. 
 

The relatively tepid coverage of this by the news media is a good reminder that their filter for what is important news is not a great one. 

 

The problem is that the three guys, who do seem credible, said that they received information from various sources, but have no actual evidence.  For example, one fellow said that a non-human UFO crashed and not only did the government recover the craft but biologics/tissue were recovered.  But he has no evidence of this...it's based on the word of other people he's talked to.

 

So I wouldn't blame the media too much.  They covered it intensely when it first came out...in particular the videos by the Airforce pilots...but there is a huge dearth of actual evidence other than some of the visual material.  Cheers!

[tede02]

On 7/28/2023 at 1:11 AM, Parsad said:

 

The problem is that the three guys, who do seem credible, said that they received information from various sources, but have no actual evidence.  For example, one fellow said that a non-human UFO crashed and not only did the government recover the craft but biologics/tissue were recovered.  But he has no evidence of this...it's based on the word of other people he's talked to.

 

So I wouldn't blame the media too much.  They covered it intensely when it first came out...in particular the videos by the Airforce pilots...but there is a huge dearth of actual evidence other than some of the visual material.  Cheers!

 

Although it's true no hard evidence was presented at the hearing, what I've learned digging into this topic is there is significant evidence, but the challenge it's all classified. For example, when the UAP task force released it's first public report in 2021, it stated that 144 cases were studied, and a grand total of 1 was identified. Of the 144 cases, 80 were detected via multiple sensors. And yet, the public got to see NOTHING. When it comes to UAP, the pentagon hides behind, "we can't disclose our capabilities".....except when a Russian jet sprays jet fuel on one of our Reaper drones or the Chinese fly a spy balloon over the continental US, we get clear pictures within 48 hours. It's a complete joke and breeds suspicion. 

 

Additionally, John Ratcliffe, the former head of DNI, said publicly in 2021 that there are far more incidents than the public knows and he went on to further state definitively that there are satellite images. 

 

As frustrating as this is, it was interesting to see that none other than the senate majority leader, Chuck Schumer, inserted language into the pending defense bill which would mandate the release of UAP records. 

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4097653-senators-to-offer-amendment-to-require-government-to-make-ufo-records-public/

Edited July 31, 2023 by tede02

[Parsad]

2 hours ago, tede02 said:

 

Although it's true no hard evidence was presented at the hearing, what I've learned digging into this topic is there is significant evidence, but the challenge it's all classified. For example, when the UAP task force released it's first public report in 2021, it stated that 144 cases were studied, and a grand total of 1 was identified. Of the 144 cases, 80 were detected via multiple sensors. And yet, the public got to see NOTHING. When it comes to UAP, the pentagon hides behind, "we can't disclose our capabilities".....except when a Russian jet sprays jet fuel on one of our Reaper drones or the Chinese fly a spy balloon over the continental US, we get clear pictures within 48 hours. It's a complete joke and breeds suspicion. 

 

Additionally, John Ratcliffe, the former head of DNI, said publicly in 2021 that there are far more incidents than the public knows and he went on to further state definitively that there are satellite images. 

 

As frustrating as this is, it was interesting to see that none other than the senate majority leader, Chuck Schumer, inserted language into the pending defense bill which would mandate the release of UAP records. 

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4097653-senators-to-offer-amendment-to-require-government-to-make-ufo-records-public/

 

But that's kind of the problem...classified or not, the public does not have the documents or evidence.  I can tell you I saw a ghost, and there might be hundreds of documented proof of ghosts, but until it all comes out...we stay in the same spot we've always been...no evidence, no facts, can't accept it as truth.  Cheers!

[tede02]

10 hours ago, Parsad said:

 

But that's kind of the problem...classified or not, the public does not have the documents or evidence.  I can tell you I saw a ghost, and there might be hundreds of documented proof of ghosts, but until it all comes out...we stay in the same spot we've always been...no evidence, no facts, can't accept it as truth.  Cheers!

 

I understand the point about needing evidence to verify. Of-course. However, it's increasingly looking like the pentagon is sitting on a load of data including optical, radar and satellite, but is fighting tooth and nail from releasing anything. Frankly, it seems to be a good strategy for them. As long as little to nothing gets out and into the public domain, the narrative of "there is no evidence" can perpetuate (as a half-truth). It's self reinforcing. What piques my curiosity is the current UFO office (AARO) has up-to-this point downplayed the hundreds of cases they are reviewing. The narrative is, "most of the cases are mundane, we can explain 95% of what we're seeing, etc." OK fine. Then lets see what you have. Why would pictures of balloons and floating plastic bags need to be classified? If it's OK to release drone footage of a Russian jet or the Chinese balloon, then the "protecting capabilities" argument doesn't hold up. My read on this is the pentagon just wants it to go away in the worst way. They know if they release anything, it feeds further public interest and chips away at the "no evidence narrative." What's intriging is how stiff the resistance is. What are they sitting on?

 

The good news is it looks like senators including Schumer, Gillibrand and Rubio know a lot more than the public which is why there's a bi-partisan push to start opening things up. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by tede02

[rkbabang]

Of course you can't completely discount the theory that this is some type of phycological operation the intelligence industrial complex is perpetrating on the American people for some reason.  Such as to distract us from something else which they are doing or something else which is happening.    Occam's razor. What's more likely? That UFOs exist and aliens have been captured by the government, or that someone for some reason wants you to think that?  I'm keeping an open mind about all possibilities.

 

 

[maplevalue]

15 hours ago, Parsad said:

 

But that's kind of the problem...classified or not, the public does not have the documents or evidence.  I can tell you I saw a ghost, and there might be hundreds of documented proof of ghosts, but until it all comes out...we stay in the same spot we've always been...no evidence, no facts, can't accept it as truth.  Cheers!

 

I think a great parallel is with the UFO story and the COVID lab leak theory. Origin of COVID a very complex topic where there is active debate within the scientific community. We do not have hard evidence that it leaked from a lab (and likely even if it did would never hear about it since certain governments/individuals would do everything in their power to make sure this did not get out), therefore many people absolutely refuse to believe it did and brand those that do as conspiracy theorists. However, there are very compelling arguments as to why it might of (some argue about the biology of the virus, others about sicknesses within the WIV in 2019). If you demand hard evidence of a lab leak, you don't have it now, but is it really wise to view the lab leak as a 0% event?

 

Same thing with UFOs, if you absolutely must have a dead alien body in front of you to believe that aliens might exist then there is no way you will believe in them now. However, if one is willing to be flexible and consider that congress holding hearings into UFOs with several credible witnesses is possibly a precursor to harder evidence coming forward, then you cannot dismiss aliens as a 0% event, and likely need to raise your own view on the probability aliens exist after watching the hearing.

 

A final thought, one of the things I have realized in my career (currently doing a STEM PhD) is how limited our understanding is of the world around us. Be careful putting too high of a burden on accepting something as true, as it stands we can say very little about very few things with much certainty!

Edited July 31, 2023 by maplevalue

[Sweet]

Aliens being here is not a 0 but there are so many other things it could be.