Where are you going.. (Travel Thread)

[Xerxes]

I figured i drop in a few words about my recent vacation to India.

 

In short, I loved it. Everything. The people, the locations, its absolutely diverse geography and its history. I structured my trip around three different historical regions:  mogul history, Rajputs and Punjab. And stayed in the north.

 

Saw eight cities, so must have packed and unpacked 8-9 times, changing cities every 48-36 hours. The yellow dots and stars shows the geographical breadth of my travel.

 

 

The first four location are part of the Golden Triangle: Delhi, Agra, Fattehpur Sikri, Jaipur. I was with a group as it is more fun with others. The last four cities, it was me, myself and I. I went to see Jodhpur, Udaipur, Amritsar and Mumbai. I did almost all of my booking through Booking, even getting taxi to drive me from Jaipur to Jodhpur and then from Jodhpur to Udaipur. I booked Indigo Airline for flight to and from Punjab.

 

Delhi, Agra and Fattehpur Sikri are of course the heartland of India' Moghul history. From the Red Fort, to the Agra Fort, and Taj Mahal.
 

Generally speaking, i found more than a few Persian words in the Hindi language. No doubt the remnants of the official court language at the imperial court, before Persian was replaced by English.

 

For those listening to the Empire podcast; the last few months, they had one episode per Moghul emperors. It was pretty good listen while I was travelling. The host of the podcast is William Dalrymple, who actually lives in Delhi and author of many books on India. His podcast covers all of history, but his own personal passion (and books) is and are India.

 

Amazon.ca: William Dalrymple: books, biography, latest update

 

The last of powerful Moghul emperors was Aurangzeb, who sat on the throne for 50 years and was intolerant compared to his predecessors and waged wars. When he was gone, Moghul rule would continue for decades, but its intrinsic value would decline sharply. While that of the East India Company would be raising as it stepped into the power vacuum. The rest is history as the Indian subcontinent traded one imperial master for another.

 

In Rajasthan, there five historical cities that one can see. I opted for three of them: Jaipur, Jodhpur and Udaipur. Each city has its own ceremonial king, but of course the political power is subordinated to Delhi as the seat of the Federal Government. Between these cities, Jaipur was the most renowned and wealth, given that its rulers had allied themselves with Ackbar the Great and had entered imperial service. Same with Jodpur to a lesser degree. Udaipur in contrast had resisted the Moghul rule. 

 

PS: I had masala tea, in the same shop that President Macron and Prime Minister Modi had had tea, when they visited the Pink City.

 

In Pujab, I went to Amritsar to visit Sikh's holiest site, the Golden Temple. Loved it. Also went to the Pakistan-India border to watch lower the flag ceremony. It was pretty awesome and unique experience that I wont forget.

 

The flight though was pretty long. The flight back was 20 hours ordeal, taking off from Mumbai going north, before turning West with a sharp 90 degree turn and making its way back to Canada, dodging both Russia and Iran for good reason.

 

For what is worth, I hope these few words will inspire some of you to visit India. It is an amazing place. The food is great. The people are wonderful.

 

Sure, at some point jumping city to city for like 8 times over 3 weeks, will exhaust you and you just want to go home, to shovel some snow and go to Costco. It happened to me, by the time I reached Mumbai, i was ready to go home.

 

Lastly, if you go to India, go see India, and not some airport in the south, because Fairfax owns it.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2025 by Xerxes

[Onefoothurdles]

Xerxes, brilliant post. I had done something similar in 2023. My original itinerary was from Ahmedabad -> Jodhpur -> Jaipur -> Udaipur -> Ranthambore -> Fatehpur Sikri -> Agra -> Delhi; ultimately, we had to cut short our trip from Udaipur onwards in favor of further travels down south to Tamil Nadu, Bangalore and Kerala (and yes we very much go to see that airport too!).  

 

There were 7 of us including elderly folks and young kids so we opted for comfort and booked a 12-seater bus where the driver picked us up from Ahmedabad and drove us all through Rajasthan. Absolutely surreal, we were also travelling during October/November festivities. Udaipur was my favourite stop. 

 

[DooDiligence]

4 hours ago, Xerxes said:

I figured i drop in a few words about my recent vacation to India.

 

In short, I loved it. Everything. The people, the locations, its absolutely diverse geography and its history. I structured my trip around three different historical regions:  mogul history, Rajputs and Punjab. And stayed in the north.

 

Saw eight cities, so must have packed and unpacked 8-9 times, changing cities every 48-36 hours. The yellow dots and stars shows the geographical breadth of my travel.

 

 

The first four location are part of the Golden Triangle: Delhi, Agra, Fattehpur Sikri, Jaipur. I was with a group as it is more fun with others. The last four cities, it was me, myself and I. I went to see Jodhpur, Udaipur, Amritsar and Mumbai. I did almost all of my booking through Booking, even getting taxi to drive me from Jaipur to Jodhpur and then from Jodhpur to Udaipur. I booked Indigo Airline for flight to and from Punjab.

 

Delhi, Agra and Fattehpur Sikri are of course the heartland of India' Moghul history. From the Red Fort, to the Agra Fort, and Taj Mahal.
 

Generally speaking, i found more than a few Persian words in the Hindi language. No doubt the remnants of the official court language at the imperial court, before Persian was replaced by English.

 

For those listening to the Empire podcast; the last few months, they had one episode per Moghul emperors. It was pretty good listen while I was travelling. The host of the podcast is William Dalrymple, who actually lives in Delhi and author of many books on India. His podcast covers all of history, but his own personal passion (and books) is and are India.

 

Amazon.ca: William Dalrymple: books, biography, latest update

 

The last of powerful Moghul emperors was Aurangzeb, who sat on the throne for 50 years and was intolerant compared to his predecessors and waged wars. When he was gone, Moghul rule would continue for decades, but its intrinsic value would decline sharply. While that of the East India Company would be raising as it stepped into the power vacuum. The rest is history as the Indian subcontinent traded one imperial master for another.

 

In Rajasthan, there five historical cities that one can see. I opted for three of them: Jaipur, Jodhpur and Udaipur. Each city has its own ceremonial king, but of course the political power is subordinated to Delhi as the seat of the Federal Government. Between these cities, Jaipur was the most renowned and wealth, given that its rulers had allied themselves with Ackbar the Great and had entered imperial service. Same with Jodpur to a lesser degree. Udaipur in contrast had resisted the Moghul rule. 

 

PS: I had masala tea, in the same shop that President Macron and Prime Minister Modi had had tea, when they visited the Pink City.

 

In Pujab, I went to Amritsar to visit Sikh's holiest site, the Golden Temple. Loved it. Also went to the Pakistan-India border to watch lower the flag ceremony. It was pretty awesome and unique experience that I wont forget.

 

The flight though was pretty long. The flight back was 20 hours ordeal, taking off from Mumbai going north, before turning West with a sharp 90 degree turn and making its way back to Canada, dodging both Russia and Iran for good reason.

 

For what is worth, I hope these few words will inspire some of you to visit India. It is an amazing place. The food is great. The people are wonderful.

 

Sure, at some point jumping city to city for like 8 times over 3 weeks, will exhaust you and you just want to go home, to shovel some snow and go to Costco. It happened to me, by the time I reached Mumbai, i was ready to go home.

 

Lastly, if you go to India, go see India, and not some airport in the south, because Fairfax owns it.

 

 

 

 

 

Was just reading about Ashoka in Walpola Rahula's "What the Buddha Taught" (downloadable pdf), and would like to visit the Bihar region (formerly Magadha). His story, the fanciful and the true, has some powerful lessons in it. Go cuttlefish!

[Xerxes]

13 hours ago, DooDiligence said:

 

Was just reading about Ashoka in Walpola Rahula's "What the Buddha Taught" (downloadable pdf), and would like to visit the Bihar region (formerly Magadha). His story, the fanciful and the true, has some powerful lessons in it. Go cuttlefish!

I don’t know much about Ashoka, but was told by my tour guide, in no uncertain terms, that only three people have the “the Great” next to their name in India:  Ashoka, Alexandre and Ackbar. 
 

Assuming I am not mixing up Ashoka with someone else. 

Edited February 10, 2025 by Xerxes

[Xerxes]

14 hours ago, Onefoothurdles said:

Xerxes, brilliant post. I had done something similar in 2023. My original itinerary was from Ahmedabad -> Jodhpur -> Jaipur -> Udaipur -> Ranthambore -> Fatehpur Sikri -> Agra -> Delhi; ultimately, we had to cut short our trip from Udaipur onwards in favor of further travels down south to Tamil Nadu, Bangalore and Kerala (and yes we very much go to see that airport too!).  

 

There were 7 of us including elderly folks and young kids so we opted for comfort and booked a 12-seater bus where the driver picked us up from Ahmedabad and drove us all through Rajasthan. Absolutely surreal, we were also travelling during October/November festivities. Udaipur was my favourite stop. 

 

thank you. I agree about Udaipur. 

An oasis in the desert. With amazing coffee. 
 

I read on The Economist that India has about 40 or so UNESCO sites with 10 million tourists every year, while Dubai has about 10 million tourists but with no UNESCO site. 
 

i think there are a lot of upside if the government leans-in into tourism. LOTs to see …

[DooDiligence]

9 hours ago, Xerxes said:

I don’t know much about Ashoka, but was told by my tour guide, in no uncertain terms, that only three people have the “the Great” next to their name in India:  Ashoka, Alexandre and Ackbar. 
 

Assuming I am not mixing up Ashoka with someone else. 

He went from being absolutely terrible to greatness. I doubt we’ll see a similar change in a world leader any time soon.

[Onefoothurdles]

On 2/11/2025 at 5:13 AM, Xerxes said:

thank you. I agree about Udaipur. 

An oasis in the desert. With amazing coffee. 
 

I read on The Economist that India has about 40 or so UNESCO sites with 10 million tourists every year, while Dubai has about 10 million tourists but with no UNESCO site. 
 

i think there are a lot of upside if the government leans-in into tourism. LOTs to see …

Had the best chai in Udaipur. Generally, find North India's chai game is the best, while kaapi (coffee) is better in the South. 

I've always felt that India's posture towards foreign tourism as being indifferent at best, it doesnt help that they restrict visa on arrival eligibility only to the countries that reciprocate with them which is like a handful of countries with tiny populations (Seychelles, Maldives, Jordan etc...). Having said that, their local tourism is massive - didnt come across a single airport, club, hotel, restaurant that wasn't full during my 5 week stay there.

 

Dubai gets the numbers because they're incentivized to do so, they are like the Singapore of the middle east and are massively dependent on foreign labor, trade, FX and tourism - Emirates and Etihad is quite prevalent as airlines so you are in all likelihood to make a stopover at some point while travelling to other major cities. 

 

Separately, I'm planning a trip to Japan in May and just blown away by the tourism stats on Japan recently. In 2024, they surpassed their pre-covid numbers of 37m tourists per year. My understanding is that their government has made a concerted marketing effort post covid to build their tourism industry, even sponsoring many youtubers with hotel stays, itineraries etc.. to build awareness and content. Add to that the prevalence of Anime culture in the west, including Pokémon and Nintendo-sphere... Its working well for them! 

Edited February 12, 2025 by Onefoothurdles

[Gamecock-YT]

2 hours ago, Onefoothurdles said:

 

 

Separately, I'm planning a trip to Japan in May and just blown away by the tourism stats on Japan recently. In 2024, they surpassed their pre-covid numbers of 37m tourists per year. My understanding is that their government has made a concerted marketing effort post covid to build their tourism industry, even sponsoring many youtubers with hotel stays, itineraries etc.. to build awareness and content. Add to that the prevalence of Anime culture in the west, including Pokémon and Nintendo-sphere... Its working well for them! 

 

I was in Tokyo and Osaka last month, it was still pretty even in what is supposed to be their 'slow season'. Only place that was over touristy was Nara, I saw photos of Kyoto and it looked ever worse. The good news is I still think you can get off the 'tourist trail' and into smaller cities and get more of an authentic experience still. But I don't see myself going to Nara or Kyoto any time in the near future. 

[LC]

8 hours ago, Gamecock-YT said:

I was in Tokyo and Osaka last month, it was still pretty even in what is supposed to be their 'slow season'. Only place that was over touristy was Nara, I saw photos of Kyoto and it looked ever worse. The good news is I still think you can get off the 'tourist trail' and into smaller cities and get more of an authentic experience still. But I don't see myself going to Nara or Kyoto any time in the near future. 

 

Do you ski? Great skiing in Hokkaido this time of year, and the countryside is absolutely idyllic. 

[Onefoothurdles]

11 hours ago, Gamecock-YT said:

 

I was in Tokyo and Osaka last month, it was still pretty even in what is supposed to be their 'slow season'. Only place that was over touristy was Nara, I saw photos of Kyoto and it looked ever worse. The good news is I still think you can get off the 'tourist trail' and into smaller cities and get more of an authentic experience still. But I don't see myself going to Nara or Kyoto any time in the near future. 

Its our first trip to Japan, and with kids so we’ll be hitting the usual touristy spots for sure. Although in Hakone we’ll have a car for 3 days where we’ll have the opportunity to explore the surrounding areas and Izu peninsula. 

[villainx]

How old are kids?

 

 

 

[Onefoothurdles]

25 minutes ago, villainx said:

How old are kids?

 

 

 

13, 10 and 7

[villainx]

Here are some off beat spots/experiences, that we went with family.  I won't say it's deep, local knowledge, but I think more geared towards how locals would locally sightsee.

 

• Fukagawa Edo Museum, combined with Fukagawajuku Main Branch clam lunch next door
• Tokyo Metropolitan Government Building free observatory with lunch at their 32nd Floor Staff Cafeteria 
• teamlabs Planets, not off beat but crowd pleaser and probably already on your list
• Kyoto Railway Museum, I thought it was great but not as much of a hit with my 10 year old.
• Kyo-Tofu Fujino at 11th floor of JR Kyoto Isetan, tofu focus but one of best meals during last trip

• animate Ikebukuro main store, since you mentioned anime

 

[Onefoothurdles]

5 hours ago, villainx said:

Here are some off beat spots/experiences, that we went with family.  I won't say it's deep, local knowledge, but I think more geared towards how locals would locally sightsee.

 

• Fukagawa Edo Museum, combined with Fukagawajuku Main Branch clam lunch next door
• Tokyo Metropolitan Government Building free observatory with lunch at their 32nd Floor Staff Cafeteria 
• teamlabs Planets, not off beat but crowd pleaser and probably already on your list
• Kyoto Railway Museum, I thought it was great but not as much of a hit with my 10 year old.
• Kyo-Tofu Fujino at 11th floor of JR Kyoto Isetan, tofu focus but one of best meals during last trip

• animate Ikebukuro main store, since you mentioned anime

 

Thanks for the tips villainx - I've marked them all down

 

Edit: awesome recommendations - I had Tokyo Metropolitan Building down but had no idea about the cafeteria - will definitely check that out. 

Edited February 13, 2025 by Onefoothurdles

[Gamecock-YT]

15 hours ago, LC said:

 

Do you ski? Great skiing in Hokkaido this time of year, and the countryside is absolutely idyllic. 

 

I do, but never have done it in Japan. The few times I've looked at Niseko it looked pretty pricey and the talk is it's full of Aussies. Though I do like Hokkaido quite a bit for non-ski activities, and it isn't nearly as trafficked for tourists. I've taken the Shinkansen through Nagano which has a few places, but think Northern Tohoku would probably be the best spot of good snow and few crowds. 

Edited February 13, 2025 by Gamecock-YT

[DooDiligence]

Anybody here ever been to Kandy?

[DooDiligence]

Bhutan is relatively expensive. The Bhutanese government requires a minimum spend for tourists ($100 per night per person). You are no longer required to book through a Bhutanese travel agent, however you will get recommendations for guides, etc., as a part of the VISA application. All of this is an effort to minimize the impact of trash tourism.

 

https://bhutan.travel

 

When the NWFL humidity rolls in, I'm outta here. Until then, I'm going to enjoy the beautiful climate we have.

 

===

 

There's nothing in Thailand for me, except a whole lot of really nice, poor people who are getting beat down by filth. I don't think I'll ever go back except maybe as a stopover to spend a few days and visit some friends in Bangkok.

[DooDiligence]

This has got to be the nicest cookie notification I've ever seen.

 

https://www.andbeyond.com/advice/asia/sri-lanka/kandy/why-visit-kandy/#

 

 

 

[nwoodman]

Quote

On another note, I was recently going through the travel thread and saw that you've trekked Nepal. Can you tell me if it's better to book a guide and porter ahead online, or just do it on the ground in Kathmandu? Also, have you ever done Bhutan?

@DooDiligence Both of my treks - EBC/Island Peak (18 Pax)and Mera Peak (12 Pax) - we were running with reasonably large groups so organised everything before hand and were able to negotiate discounts accordingly.  Even though we felt we had done our DD we still ran into issues though.

 

 On the Island Peak trip our porters just never showed up after we arrived in Lukla, our guides hired Yaks so no harm no foul.  For Mera,  our lead guide actually got lost with two of our party.  It turns out the owner of the guiding company had done the Mera Peak trek previously just not actually our guide.  Alltrails came in handy .  The gear (microspikes etc) that they supplied was very ordinary in both cases.  Depending on what you doing,  anything mission critical such as spikes, down jacket, gloves mittens you want to BYO in my opinion.  I was happy with the crampons and mountaineering boots for Mera but Island Peak was a bit of a shitshow in terms of mountaineering gear..

 

It really must be emphasised that the notion that Nepal has “trekking peaks” is a bit of a misnomer.  Anything above 6000m can turn very ugly very fast and you need good mountaineering clothing especially boots. All the guiding companies will tell you about their success rates but in reality only about 30% actually bag the trekking peaks.  For us it was 7/18 for Island Peak and 3/12 for Mera Peak.
 

You might be able to wing it and find a guide in Kathmandu but for me having an idea of cost and itinerary before hand helped me a lot.  In both cases our guiding company provided good support before we even arrived in Nepal and that was worth it alone.  
 

Haven’t been to Bhutan but it sounds interesting

[DooDiligence]

25 minutes ago, nwoodman said:

@DooDiligence Both of my treks - EBC/Island Peak (18 Pax)and Mera Peak (12 Pax) - we were running with reasonably large groups so organised everything before hand and were able to negotiate discounts accordingly.  Even though we felt we had done our DD we still ran into issues though.

 

 On the Island Peak trip our porters just never showed up after we arrived in Lukla, our guides hired Yaks so no harm no foul.  For Mera,  our lead guide actually got lost with two of our party.  It turns out the owner of the guiding company had done the Mera Peak trek previously just not actually our guide.  Alltrails came in handy .  The gear (microspikes etc) that they supplied was very ordinary in both cases.  Depending on what you doing,  anything mission critical such as spikes, down jacket, gloves mittens you want to BYO in my opinion.  I was happy with the crampons and mountaineering boots for Mera but Island Peak was a bit of a shitshow in terms of mountaineering gear..

 

It really must be emphasised that the notion that Nepal has “trekking peaks” is a bit of a misnomer.  Anything above 6000m can turn very ugly very fast and you need good mountaineering clothing especially boots. All the guiding companies will tell you about their success rates but in reality only about 30% actually bag the trekking peaks.  For us it was 7/18 for Island Peak and 3/12 for Mera Peak.
 

You might be able to wing it and find a guide in Kathmandu but for me having an idea of cost and itinerary before hand helped me a lot.  In both cases our guiding company provided good support before we even arrived in Nepal and that was worth it alone.  
 

Haven’t been to Bhutan but it sounds interesting

 

Thanks. I'm looking at doing more moderate, lower altitude treks. I'm 62yo and in pretty good shape but know my limitations. I've been watching some youtube videos and reading Reddit subs. Out of all I've seen, this one seems good.

 

https://www.himalayantahrtreks.com/guided-trek/manaslu-region/6

[nwoodman]

2 hours ago, DooDiligence said:

 

Thanks. I'm looking at doing more moderate, lower altitude treks. I'm 62yo and in pretty good shape but know my limitations. I've been watching some youtube videos and reading Reddit subs. Out of all I've seen, this one seems good.

 

https://www.himalayantahrtreks.com/guided-trek/manaslu-region/6

Nice,  if you aren’t climbing then the further from the maddening crowds of the EBC trek the better. Larkya La Pass looks amazing

 

The Nepalese are some of the most wonderful people you will meet too. They are nice for the most part in Kathmandu but do get exponentially more friendly the further from Kathmandu you get.  I had the  good fortune as part of some charity work a few years back to visit villages that were accessible only by walking.  Quite a profound experience,  the people I met made me really question Western values and what it means to be happy.  I hope you have a similar experience. 

[DooDiligence]

8 hours ago, nwoodman said:

Nice,  if you aren’t climbing then the further from the maddening crowds of the EBC trek the better. Larkya La Pass looks amazing

 

The Nepalese are some of the most wonderful people you will meet too. They are nice for the most part in Kathmandu but do get exponentially more friendly the further from Kathmandu you get.  I had the  good fortune as part of some charity work a few years back to visit villages that were accessible only by walking.  Quite a profound experience,  the people I met made me really question Western values and what it means to be happy.  I hope you have a similar experience. 

 

I'm on the same path. Can you point me towards the charitable organization you worked with?

[nwoodman]

On 3/14/2025 at 11:57 PM, DooDiligence said:

 

I'm on the same path. Can you point me towards the charitable organization you worked with?

It was the Pahar Trust

https://www.pahar-trust.org/our-history

 

 

 

 

[DooDiligence]

2 hours ago, nwoodman said:

It was the Pahar Trust

https://www.pahar-trust.org/our-history

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you very much. Very inspiring story. These guys are certainly doing a lot of good around the area. I'm planning out some Smoky Mountain treks for April to make sure I can even do this.

[villainx]

 

 

Hattip to @dwy000.  Sharp drop in international travelers coming to USA is going to persists?  Where can flight or travel bargains be found?