Leaving New York City

[whiskybravo]

I think a lot of this discussion comes down to the fact that people can experience NYC very differently depending on where they are in life and how their income is structured.

 

Where I live, the city is spotless, busy, economically vibrant, and full of life, not remotely comparable to the New York of the 1970s fiscal crisis era. 
 

What’s new is ideological politics that are openly hostile to the capitalist engine that historically has made New York successful. 
 

I am watching carefully. My own circumstances afford me a longer leash than many others have. I have the ability to observe how these political and economic trends evolve before deciding whether the long-term balance still works for me.

[Marco Van Basten]

2 minutes ago, whiskybravo said:

I think a lot of this discussion comes down to the fact that people can experience NYC very differently depending on where they are in life and how their income is structured.

 

Where I live, the city is spotless, busy, economically vibrant, and full of life, not remotely comparable to the New York of the 1970s fiscal crisis era. 
 

What’s new is ideological politics that are openly hostile to the capitalist engine that historically has made New York successful. 
 

I am watching carefully. My own circumstances afford me a longer leash than many others have. I have the ability to observe how these political and economic trends evolve before deciding whether the long-term balance still works for me.

Which neighborhood?  Uws, ues, village all have dog shit and homeless all over the streets

[whiskybravo]

CPW in Lincoln Square.  Short walk across immaculate Central Park for my morning cappuccino at Sant Ambroeus. Dog shit/homeless not a factor unlike in the ‘80’s.  
 

Forgot about the NIIT.  That brings it to 27%.  Next level that it would jump would be NY state at $2.15M I can usually manage to stay below that lol.

Edited May 8 by whiskybravo

[Gregmal]

https://nypost.com/2026/05/07/us-news/blue-states-like-new-york-bleeding-wealth-to-red-states/

[brobro777]

When I moved from NYC to Los Angeles in 2013 my taxes went down because I didn't have to pay NYC income tax no more, that was cool

Net investment income tax got me good this year, I was surprised at the amount. And if a piker like me pays like this then how much are the big guys in NYC paying, like damn man, on top of NYC income tax

 

 

[dwy000]

Somebody must be moving in because rents were up 6% in 1Q26.

 

https://www.realtor.com/research/nyc-q1-2026-rent/

[Mephistopheles]

I would love to see Citadel exit NYC completely like they did in Chicago. How stupid does someone like mamdani have to be to single Ken Griffin out? The one guy who walks the walk, giving Chicago a big fu by leaving. Communists are mentally ill

[Marco Van Basten]

8 hours ago, dwy000 said:

Somebody must be moving in because rents were up 6% in 1Q26.

 

https://www.realtor.com/research/nyc-q1-2026-rent/

No.  Supply of apartments for rent is shrinking.  There are tens of thousands of rent controlled and rent apartments that are empty and falling apart since rents don’t justify renovation.  Also,  new rules on evictions and maximum rent increases make it less attractive to lease out their apartments.

[dwy000]

3 hours ago, Marco Van Basten said:

No.  Supply of apartments for rent is shrinking.  There are tens of thousands of rent controlled and rent apartments that are empty and falling apart since rents don’t justify renovation.  Also,  new rules on evictions and maximum rent increases make it less attractive to lease out their apartments.

There are estimated to be 26k empty apartments.  Out of 3.5mn.  And they added 35k new units last year. That may be adding to the price increases but it's hardly a main cause.  At the end of the day people are stilling willing to pay an insane and increasing price to live there.  

 

https://ij.org/case/nyc-vacant-apartments/

[Marco Van Basten]

55 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

There are estimated to be 26k empty apartments.  Out of 3.5mn.  And they added 35k new units last year. That may be adding to the price increases but it's hardly a main cause.  At the end of the day people are stilling willing to pay an insane and increasing price to live there.  

 

https://ij.org/case/nyc-vacant-apartments/

I am sorry but that data does not make sense.  Also, a lot of apartments that are added are super luxury to be used for part year residency, and often buildings are knocked down for new construction.   If you examine new developments, you will see that.  In any case, while it is difficult to figure out what an apartment is used for and whether it replaced an existing building, it is easy to look at population.  Look at NYC population in 2020 - 8.8MM, 2025 - 8.585MM.  So it is not growing population that is driving NYC rents up.   Logically, rents should be down from 2020 to 2025, we are seeing the opposite.  

[dwy000]

2 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

I am sorry but that data does not make sense.  Also, a lot of apartments that are added are super luxury to be used for part year residency, and often buildings are knocked down for new construction.   If you examine new developments, you will see that.  In any case, while it is difficult to figure out what an apartment is used for and whether it replaced an existing building, it is easy to look at population.  Look at NYC population in 2020 - 8.8MM, 2025 - 8.585MM.  So it is not growing population that is driving NYC rents up.   Logically, rents should be down from 2020 to 2025, we are seeing the opposite.  

Not my data.  Straight from the source.  Happy to review any contradictory data though. 

 

Rents are up 6% in 1Q.  Regardless of all the fleeing capital and population the city is hardly dying. 

[SharperDingaan]

Can't speak to NYC, but London (UK) is not that different. Cost of living has always been an issue, but given the opportunity ... a great many people continually flock to it ... like moths to a flame. For those in certain age ranges, that want to experience the bright lights ... it's either step up, meet the world, or regret it for the rest of your life.   

 

Big difference is the cost of housing. Lot lower in the UK, as it's pre-paid rent for the remaining X years of the lease; capital cost of the land not included as it wasn't sold. It's also common practice for strangers to share the rent/utilities, same as would be in a frat house. Just a different experience, that could easily also be a Paris or Milan; only in a different language.

 

Time limited engagement.

 

SD 

 

Edited May 8 by SharperDingaan

[Mephistopheles]

In NYC, all these new buildings give 20-30% of their apartments to lazy people via the housing lottery to save on taxes. know someone who is living in a kick ass 1 bed apartment in Chelsea for like $800 something. Nice guy but he’s an actor who spends most nights partying it up in the city. FYI Chelsea one beds go for $5,000-$8,000 these days 

 

So the 80% subsidize the 20%.  
 

Don’t blame the player, blame the game. Imagine if those 25% of apartments went to people who actually add value to society?

[thepupil]

9 minutes ago, SharperDingaan said:

Can't speak to NYC, but London (UK) is not that different. Cost of living has always been an issue, but given the opportunity ... a great many people continually flock to it ... like moths to a flame. For those in certain age ranges, that want to experience the bright lights ... it's either step up, meet the world, or regret it for the rest of your life.   

 

Big difference is the cost of housing. Lot lower in the UK, as it's pre-paid rent for the remaining X years of the lease; capital cost of the land not included as it wasn't sold. It's also common practice for strangers to share the rent/utilities, same as would be in a frat house. Just a different experience, that could easily also be a Paris or Milan; only in a different language.

 

Time limited engagement.

 

SD 

 

 

why don't you think this happens in NYC? Everyone does this until like age 26-30 in NYC.

 

when i was an analyst, someone 7 years older than i was was still living with 3 roommates. he was a VP at an investment bank. 

 

I mean i've never not had a roommate since leaving high school. 3 years in the dorms/apt, 1-2 roommates.... then a few years in NYC with roommates (3 people in 2 bedroom, converted living room...all three of us at standard wall street comp), then a few years elsewhere with roommates, then moved in with girlfriend/now wife @ 28 yrs old. 

 

who the hell is living alone < 30 in NYC?

 

people with unlimited $$$$ and time???

[Gregmal]

22 minutes ago, Mephistopheles said:

In NYC, all these new buildings give 20-30% of their apartments to lazy people via the housing lottery to save on taxes. know someone who is living in a kick ass 1 bed apartment in Chelsea for like $800 something. Nice guy but he’s an actor who spends most nights partying it up in the city. FYI Chelsea one beds go for $5,000-$8,000 these days 

 

So the 80% subsidize the 20%.  
 

Don’t blame the player, blame the game. Imagine if those 25% of apartments went to people who actually add value to society?

Oh yea they dont also acknowledge all the scams going on with that, guys like Mamdami living in rent stabilized housing, or the celebrities as well. Remember these clowns? Big liberals of course

 

https://nypost.com/2019/03/02/emily-ratajkowski-and-her-millionaire-husband-are-living-rent-free-landlord-claims/

[LC]

Quote

 

A state law enacted in 1982 prevented landlords from booting artists and other low-income tenants who lived illegally in commercial loft spaces.

 

It said they couldn’t be evicted if their building didn’t have a certificate of occupancy or installed fire and other safety protections. The Bleecker Street building doesn’t have the certificate.

 

 

Landlord is upset the tenants in his illegal rental unit aren't paying rent 

 

I mean, I'm trying to find some empathy for him... maybe it's hidden next to his C of O? 

[Gregmal]

1 minute ago, LC said:

 

Landlord is upset the tenants in his illegal rental unit aren't paying rent 

 

I mean, I'm trying to find some empathy for him... maybe it's hidden next to his C of O? 

This is just how the NYC types function. No rule of law anywhere, no respect for each other, just selfish degens whom exploit whatever works for them. Word and a handshake dont mean shit. Again kinda funny how Trump is....the classic NYer. 

 

It's crazy how being away from it now they stand out horribly. They come down here to vacation and theyre rude, entitled....always the frumpy one whom act like basic manners are unnecessary. Or the only ones whom dont smile and say hello while passing on the sidewalk. Just lousy people. 

[LC]

4 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

It's crazy how being away from it now they stand out horribly. They come down here to vacation and theyre rude, entitled....always the frumpy one whom act like basic manners are unnecessary. Or the only ones whom dont smile and say hello while passing on the sidewalk. Just lousy people. 

 

Shitty people doing shitty things to other shitty people...they all deserve each other! 

 

Even when my buddies come out to visit me for ski season, it's just like you mention...

Like, bro...you're not dodging rats and homeless people on the 4 train can we please take it down a notch or two?

 

Employer tried to get me back to NYC for a big pay boost...told them to screw right off. I'd rather they fire me   

[Gregmal]

3 minutes ago, LC said:

 

Shitty people doing shitty things to other shitty people...they all deserve each other! 

 

Even when my buddies come out to visit me for ski season, it's just like you mention...

Like, bro...you're not dodging rats and homeless people on the 4 train can we please take it down a notch or two?

 

Employer tried to get me back to NYC for a big pay boost...told them to screw right off. I'd rather they fire me   

Ha! Yea theres no amount of money that would compel me to go back. And it's amazing what it's like, in terms of the psychological difference, just in general, being around nice, happy, polite people. Our first week down here, a neighbor came over asking to help with some stuff and my initial thought was "WTF's this guys angle? What does he want?"...turns out theres actually folks out there whom just do shit out of the goodness of their hearts. Was weird at first, now Im like OK, I cant believe people live like we did back in the northeast. Just total animals. 

[dwy000]

5 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Ha! Yea theres no amount of money that would compel me to go back. And it's amazing what it's like, in terms of the psychological difference, just in general, being around nice, happy, polite people. Our first week down here, a neighbor came over asking to help with some stuff and my initial thought was "WTF's this guys angle? What does he want?"...turns out theres actually folks out there whom just do shit out of the goodness of their hearts. Was weird at first, now Im like OK, I cant believe people live like we did back in the northeast. Just total animals. 

Its not the northeast it's big cities.  Pretty much all big cities are like that.  Its the hustle to get ahead. 

 

Comparing NYC or LA or London to the Midwest or areas people go to retire isn't a comparison. Nobody in their 20's or 30's wants to live in the suburbs or surrounded by families and old people.  They want vibrant excitement.   And they generally dont give a crap about taxes.  

 

When people get older, get married, have kids, retire- then they want quiet and space and a slower lifestyle.  Its why young people move to big cities after college and then move to Florida or quieter places when they retire.  Cycle of life. 

[whiskybravo]

1 hour ago, dwy000 said:

Its not the northeast it's big cities.  Pretty much all big cities are like that.  Its the hustle to get ahead. 

 

Comparing NYC or LA or London to the Midwest or areas people go to retire isn't a comparison. Nobody in their 20's or 30's wants to live in the suburbs or surrounded by families and old people.  They want vibrant excitement.   And they generally dont give a crap about taxes.  

 

When people get older, get married, have kids, retire- then they want quiet and space and a slower lifestyle.  Its why young people move to big cities after college and then move to Florida or quieter places when they retire.  Cycle of life. 

Very realistic take Dwy.  I am in an advantageous situation being long retired living on 15% federal taxes.  I guess if I lived in Fla, I’d be paying close to squat.   Given how I live, my life is more peaceful than if I had to daily climb in the car and roll down Highway 98.

 

Great thread.  Fun to see Greg and LC go off the rails together.

 

Marco you know your stuff.  I’m just curious where you’re seeing all this dog shit and homelessness.  Just had lunch with my niece and daughter, who are visiting from Phoenix, at Peacock Alley in the Waldorf.  My wife and I walked from CPW and the streets were clean, lots of activity (down from ten years ago, but still thriving).  Saw one homeless woman and child.  She looked like a migrant.  One saw hundreds like her when the borders were open and Abbot and DiSantis shipped them up in busloads.  I don’t know where they all went but its like they disappeared.  Adams emptied the Roosevelt Hotel and others where they were being housed.  But where did they go? They aren’t lingering on the streets they way they were a couple/few years ago.  We drove down to Balthazar last week parked in a garage and walked around the West Village.  Again clean, lots of activity. 

Edited May 8 by whiskybravo

[Marco Van Basten]

1 hour ago, whiskybravo said:

Very realistic take Dwy.  I am in an advantageous situation being long retired living on 15% federal taxes.  I guess if I lived in Fla, I’d be paying close to squat.   Given how I live, my life is more peaceful than if I had to daily climb in the car and roll down Highway 98.

 

Great thread.  Fun to see Greg and LC go off the rails together.

 

Marco you know your stuff.  I’m just curious where you’re seeing all this dog shit and homelessness.  Just had lunch with my niece and daughter, who are visiting from Phoenix, at Peacock Alley in the Waldorf.  My wife and I walked from CPW and the streets were clean, lots of activity (down from ten years ago, but still thriving).  Saw one homeless woman and child.  She looked like a migrant.  One saw hundreds like her when the borders were open and Abbot and DiSantis shipped them up in busloads.  I don’t know where they all went but its like they disappeared.  Adams emptied the Roosevelt Hotel and others where they were being housed.  But where did they go? They aren’t lingering on the streets they way they were a couple/few years ago.  We drove down to Balthazar last week parked in a garage and walked around the West Village.  Again clean, lots of activity. 

Just walked on 72.  Marijuana smells in several places and passed two beggars.  Three homeless guys in riverside park between 80th and 84th today.   Several cars running a red light on 79th and west end, traffic cop just stood there.  I walk seven miles a day, trust me dog shit is everywhere.  Every day a bicyclist riding on a sidewalk, dogs off leash in the park.  Is it much worse than fifteen years ago?  Not sure, but education system is collapsing, that is for sure.  The standards dropped sharply in a couple of years ago, and specialized high schools and selective junior high schools are being destroyed.   Add to it taxes that are about to skyrocket and the product that is nyc is not worth it.  Keep in mind, I go to the opera, Carnegie hall and jazz clubs at least once a month 

[Mephistopheles]

Lower east side streets are filth covered (homeless, rats, trash, dog shit, human shit). 

[dwy000]

42 minutes ago, Mephistopheles said:

Lower east side streets are filth covered (homeless, rats, trash, dog shit, human shit). 

To be fair though, thats been the Lower East Side for the last 40 years. 

Edited May 8 by dwy000

[whiskybravo]

36 minutes ago, Marco Van Basten said:

Just walked on 72.  Marijuana smells in several places and passed two beggars.  Three homeless guys in riverside park between 80th and 84th today.   Several cars running a red light on 79th and west end, traffic cop just stood there.  I walk seven miles a day, trust me dog shit is everywhere.  Every day a bicyclist riding on a sidewalk, dogs off leash in the park.  Is it much worse than fifteen years ago?  Not sure, but education system is collapsing, that is for sure.  The standards dropped sharply in a couple of years ago, and specialized high schools and selective junior high schools are being destroyed.   Add to it taxes that are about to skyrocket and the product that is nyc is not worth it.  Keep in mind, I go to the opera, Carnegie hall and jazz clubs at least once a month 

Hey we’re practically neighbors. I lived at Riverside and 74th from 1989-1995.  Used to hoop on the courts in Riverside Park and 75th.  One Saturday morning a couple I worked with at the hospital, a tech and a nurse, were walking by.  They called me over and said “You know you’re white don’t you?”

Another morning I was playing my wife was sitting on a bench reading the paper, when she started screaming.  A homeless guy was strangling an old lady sitting next to her with a wire.  Before you could blink those guys I was playing with, many of whom were cops, were after him.  They chased him across the west side highway and caught him.  Another time some homeless guy with a cigarette in his mouth asked my wife for a light, with his dick hanging out.  This was thirty years ago.  
 

We just walked up Riverside this week and cut over to Zabar’s.  We go up to Citarella once a week for fish.  I will grant you 72nd and beyond the feeling does change.  You get up into more hard core New York lefties and the scraggy characters become much noticeable.  Big change moving down to CPW near Lincoln Center.  
 

Been a long time since I’ve been to the lower east side.  That’s always been a dump.  And I’m sure it’s still very expensive.  No thanks.

 

We love the opera, but that experience is changing too.  Just saw Tristan and Isolde.  The performance was outstanding, but the staging was ridiculous.  It’s like they feel that they have to distract people rather than just letting the beauty of the opera speak for itself.

 

Anyway, peace brother.  Sorry to see someone like you go.