A company I own got bought out, but I can't cash out.

[writser]

John: shares can be held by multiple custodians. What custodian your Danish broker uses is not particularly relevant. Spekulatius can see on his IB daily statements where his assets are held. I'm pretty sure it is Euroclear - which is a confusing name because in this case it is the custodian, not the clearer. Again, not 100% sure here but 99%.

[John Hjorth]

Thanks, writser,

 

I'm certainly an ignorant about this kind of back office stuff. So just consider it a try to get a name of my primary brokers custodian for BCAM [if any now] for Spekulatius - hopefully - to get a direction for a potential "hole" through which to communicate.

[rb]

John: shares can be held by multiple custodians. What custodian your Danish broker uses is not particularly relevant. Spekulatius can see on his IB daily statements where his assets are held. I'm pretty sure it is Euroclear - which is a confusing name because in this case it is the custodian, not the clearer. Again, not 100% sure here but 99%.

Sorry, I don't mean to nitpick because it's a very productive discussion.

 

But Euroclear would not be the custodian. It would be the depository. The custodian is who's between the broker and Euroclear. So the broker deposits the shares at it's custodian, which in turn keeps them at Euroclear. Yea, it's annoying.

[John Hjorth]

Thanks, rb.

 

[And now I'll just keep my ignorant mouth shut here.]

[rb]

Writser, what can I say, for someone who didn't work in back office you have pretty deep knowledge about this stuff. Everything you wrote is pretty spot on. I didn't work in back office but I know quite a bit about it because I'm weird like that.

 

The reason why I mentioned whether the shares are at Euroclear (which they probably are) is because you can can have weird cases where the trade is executed on Euronext, clear through Clearnet, but it's in some weird depository somewhere. In cases like these is better to check just to be sure.

 

This whole situation seems weird. While, I'm not a securities lawyer, as far as I know the regs Spek mentioned have to with transparency in pricing of securities. So it's very hard to understand how a public corporate action is in violation of the regs, but OTC trades in those securities are not.

[writser]

John: shares can be held by multiple custodians. What custodian your Danish broker uses is not particularly relevant. Spekulatius can see on his IB daily statements where his assets are held. I'm pretty sure it is Euroclear - which is a confusing name because in this case it is the custodian, not the clearer. Again, not 100% sure here but 99%.

Sorry, I don't mean to nitpick because it's a very productive discussion.

 

But Euroclear would not be the custodian. It would be the depository. The custodian is who's between the broker and Euroclear. So the broker deposits the shares at it's custodian, which in turn keeps them at Euroclear. Yea, it's annoying.

 

Yes, I think you are correct in some cases, though I thought Euroclear is a CSD - a depository but also offering custodial services. But maybe that service is optional and /or there is another intermediary - I don't know for sure. I also don't know how it works in the USA exactly. If you have some background reading on this topic it would be appreciated if you could share it. You seem to know quite a bit yourself.

 

Writser, what can I say, for someone who didn't work in back office you have pretty deep knowledge about this stuff. Everything you wrote is pretty spot on. I didn't work in back office but I know quite a bit about it because I'm weird like that.

 

I worked on the trading floor. When the back office fucked something up (which invariably happened) you had to know your stuff a little bit. Couldn't berate them otherwise .. Also, I'm weird like that too. I think it's fascinating how many people, even in the financial industry, have absolutely no clue about what happens behind the scenes.

[Spekulatius]

As expected, IBKR is pretty much no dice. They simply can‘t do it. Also it seems correct thstvthe issue is with the custodian Euroclear:

Dear XXXX

 

Please know that unfortunately, this is not a decision IBKR made as a broker, the Corporate Action has not been made available to us by Euroclear who are our custodian on this position.

 

We apologize for the inconvenience.

 

 

Regards,

Claudia

 

I called up Fidelity today and after explaining my problem, they connected me with the international trading desk. They briefly reviewed the tender offer with me  and they seem confident that they can tender the shares for me, but someone from another department needs to review this in more detail. I should hear back from them by next week.

They recommended to just open a new Roth account with Fidelity( I have already multiple other accounts with them) and transfer the BCAM position from IBKR to the Roth account opened for this purpose.

 

Sounds like a good start to me, and I guess I will find out more next week.

 

I feel like that squirrel in the ‘Ice Age’ movie intro that finds a hazelnut , but soon finds out that it needs to work really hard to keep it. This also makes me consider some life choices regarding obscure stocks and so  I sold another bugger waiting for a buyout today for a 40 Euro gain. ( In case this thread doesn’t deter people, the ticker is ARTO.PA from the Bollore solar system ). I really don’t want to deal with this sort of crap ever again.

[John Hjorth]

I really hope this now works out satisfactory for you, Spekulatius,

 

-Pretty impressive, what combined brain-storming on CoBF actually can accomplish!

[Spekulatius]

I really hope this now works out satisfactory for you, Spekulatius,

 

-Pretty impressive, what combined brain-storming on CoBF actually can accomplish!

 

I agree. Kudos to all those who chimed in. This thread shows what’s so great about this forum!

[Cigarbutt]

Hi Spekulatius,

I've taken your initial post as an implicit consent to act as your agent. :)

 

Disclosure: I have limited (if any) "back-office" practical knowledge but have occasionally held twilight-zone securities (a brewery in Cameroun is really interesting however) and have functional knowledge of French (the functional currency in France). I've always thought that English was better than French for business but French works much better for poetry (that's another story).

 

Anyways, I think you like it when people get to the point so here's the result of the interactions which suggests that there may be a simple way out of this potential mess (but what do I know?):

 

"Bonjour Monsieur,

 

Le plus simple est que votre collègue donne simplement instruction à son courtier de vendre classiquement ses titres dans le marché, une fois que l’offre sera ouverte (ce qui n’est pas encore le cas)  au prix de l’offre publique, puisque la Société de Bourse Gilbert Dupont sera dans le marché, à compter de l’ouverture de l’offre, acheteur de tous les titres qui se présentent à la vente au prix de l’offre. Pas de risque sur cette base qu’il se retrouve avec des titres sans valeur.

 

Bien cordialement,

 

Pascal MATHIEU"

 

i think this basically says (if I get it) that you can wait for the trading to re-open (it seems like it will) and submit your selling bid with a limit based on the offer price and the market making activity to maintain liquidity should do the trick (at least in theory).

 

Anyways, if you want to communicate with the "gérant", here is the connecting info: [email protected]    33.1.40.22.40.07

If necessary, I could continue to be your agent (translating agent) as the person seems to have rusty abilities in English or German.

If this works out, I guess a commission is deserved and i would accept a beer (brewed in Cameroun would be a premium) if our paths ever cross (physically speaking).

CF

[Hielko]

I'm EXTREMELY disappointed that it seems like there will be an easy way to get liquidity.

 

I really was hoping for a cool adventure where you needed to go to Cameroon to deliver physical certificates in person, getting paid cash in central African franc. Getting some shady local dealer to exchange it to dollars etc. So much potential!

[wachtwoord]

Thanks everyone for contributing to this thread. I learned a lot and find it facinating how (unnecessarily?) complex they managed to make a system for trading and holding securities.

[rkbabang]

I'm EXTREMELY disappointed that it seems like there will be an easy way to get liquidity.

 

I really was hoping for a cool adventure where you needed to go to Cameroon to deliver physical certificates in person, getting paid cash in central African franc. Getting some shady local dealer to exchange it to dollars etc. So much potential!

 

And then Spekulatius becoming a best selling author after writing a book about his adventures.  Oh well.

 

[Spekulatius]

Hi Spekulatius,

I've taken your initial post as an implicit consent to act as your agent. :)

 

Disclosure: I have limited (if any) "back-office" practical knowledge but have occasionally held twilight-zone securities (a brewery in Cameroun is really interesting however) and have functional knowledge of French (the functional currency in France). I've always thought that English was better than French for business but French works much better for poetry (that's another story).

 

Anyways, I think you like it when people get to the point so here's the result of the interactions which suggests that there may be a simple way out of this potential mess (but what do I know?):

 

"Bonjour Monsieur,

 

Le plus simple est que votre collègue donne simplement instruction à son courtier de vendre classiquement ses titres dans le marché, une fois que l’offre sera ouverte (ce qui n’est pas encore le cas)  au prix de l’offre publique, puisque la Société de Bourse Gilbert Dupont sera dans le marché, à compter de l’ouverture de l’offre, acheteur de tous les titres qui se présentent à la vente au prix de l’offre. Pas de risque sur cette base qu’il se retrouve avec des titres sans valeur.

 

Bien cordialement,

 

Pascal MATHIEU"

 

i think this basically says (if I get it) that you can wait for the trading to re-open (it seems like it will) and submit your selling bid with a limit based on the offer price and the market making activity to maintain liquidity should do the trick (at least in theory).

 

Anyways, if you want to communicate with the "gérant", here is the connecting info: [email protected]    33.1.40.22.40.07

If necessary, I could continue to be your agent (translating agent) as the person seems to have rusty abilities in English or German.

If this works out, I guess a commission is deserved and i would accept a beer (brewed in Cameroun would be a premium) if our paths ever cross (physically speaking).

CF

 

Thank you so much for your help and  the fact that they may resume trading to scoop up stranded shares (like mine) is new to me and indeed great news. It also seems like an obvious solution. I interpreted the docs I saw on Euronext that the shares may never trade again (and so far, the trading halt is in place 3+ weeks already).

 

As far as reward for your due diligence on my behalf is concerned, I would be happy to buy you a couple of beers, but it would certainly not be Cameroon brewed beer from BCAM as their flagship brand (if we want to call it that) Export 33 apparently is of despicable quality. I would rather invite you to a local brew, which are very easy to find in myNeck of woods (Greater Boston area).

 

I am not sure where you reside in Canada, but of its the eastern part, it may be within reach when driving. do far, I have ventured only once into the land of Poutine and my do so again. If you ever happen to venture near Boston, hit me up and the beers will be on me.

 

The rest is probably better handled with a PM.

[Spekulatius]

I'm EXTREMELY disappointed that it seems like there will be an easy way to get liquidity.

 

I really was hoping for a cool adventure where you needed to go to Cameroon to deliver physical certificates in person, getting paid cash in central African franc. Getting some shady local dealer to exchange it to dollars etc. So much potential!

 

This probably ends up with my head on a stick. Things are kind of rough in some areas in Cameroon, rebels of some sort have captured one BCAM’s of the bottling plants (I guess rebels get thirsty too) for a while. Possibly one of the reasons why this investment hasn’t gone that well organically.

[Cigarbutt]

... the fact that they may resume trading to scoop up stranded shares (like mine) is new to me and indeed great news. It also seems like an obvious solution. I interpreted the docs I saw on Euronext that the shares may never trade again (and so far, the trading halt is in place 3+ weeks already).

 

As far as reward for your due diligence on my behalf is concerned, I would be happy to buy you a couple of beers, but it would certainly not be Cameroon brewed beer from BCAM as their flagship brand (if we want to call it that) Export 33 apparently is of despicable quality. I would rather invite you to a local brew, which are very easy to find in myNeck of woods (Greater Boston area).

 

I am not sure where you reside in Canada, but of its the eastern part, it may be within reach when driving. do far, I have ventured only once into the land of Poutine and my do so again. If you ever happen to venture near Boston, hit me up and the beers will be on me.

 

The rest is probably better handled with a PM.

I hope it works out for you. Keep us informed.

I used to brew my own beers (in university) and microbreweries have become very popular around my area (Montreal area).

The reward was meant to be tongue-in-cheek but I would surely appreciate sharing a beer or two (?) one of these days because I like to learn.

Let's make it happen before a wall is built. :)

[writser]

I feel like that squirrel in the ‘Ice Age’ movie intro that finds a hazelnut , but soon finds out that it needs to work really hard to keep it. This also makes me consider some life choices regarding obscure stocks and so  I sold another bugger waiting for a buyout today for a 40 Euro gain. ( In case this thread doesn’t deter people, the ticker is ARTO.PA from the Bollore solar system ). I really don’t want to deal with this sort of crap ever again.

 

No? Because of such sentiments I think situations like this are likely to be mispriced. I suggest you try to see it as an exciting hobby like sky diving or swimming with sharks. Only instead of doing something actually dangerous you have to read tedious documents and e-mail and call with office clerks all around the world. Same adrenaline kick but much safer. And you get paid to play. Seriously, can it get any better?

[Spekulatius]

I feel like that squirrel in the ‘Ice Age’ movie intro that finds a hazelnut , but soon finds out that it needs to work really hard to keep it. This also makes me consider some life choices regarding obscure stocks and so  I sold another bugger waiting for a buyout today for a 40 Euro gain. ( In case this thread doesn’t deter people, the ticker is ARTO.PA from the Bollore solar system ). I really don’t want to deal with this sort of crap ever again.

 

No? Because of such sentiments I think situations like this are likely to be mispriced. I suggest you try to see it as an exciting hobby like sky diving or swimming with sharks. Only instead of doing something actually dangerous you have to read tedious documents and e-mail and call with office clerks all around the world. Same adrenaline kick but much safer. And you get paid to play. Seriously, can it get any better?

 

You are correct. The reason why in the end I don’t like that investment is because the IRF in the end was single digits. I bought this stock several years ago and thought I‘d hit on something. A brewery in Africa (growth market) with a rising dividend,a great balance sheet and rising profits and almost a monopoly (80% market share) what could go wrong? It turns out a lot - the oil Crash dunked the economy, currency tumbled, rebels taking over part of the country (and a BCAM  facility for a while). Those were just the thing I am aware of and there are likely more. Profits tumbled and bounced a round, dividend was cut some too and the price faltered after rising quite a bit. I sold some shares onto a spike in 2019, then bought them back when it dunked to 80 Euro and change and then finally the buyout. ingress from the buy it looks Ok, but form start to finish, i would have been better of buying a SPY ETF and be done with it, without the brain damage in between. Although I do admit the the BCAM Ride was more interesting.

 

Ingress there is going to be time when going the extra mile is going to be worth it, but the last 5 years that surely want the case.

[Spekulatius]

End of the saga - I sold my shares at 128.5 Euro (exactly the tender price) as they started trading again and there was a huge bid out there, presumable from the broker house administering the tender. Whew - problem solved!

 

Now I need to cancel my transfer request with Fidelity (the shares were still in my IB account)

 

Thanks to everyone who helped out here.

[Spekulatius]

Hmm, another buyout another problem. Price for FOPE SPA seems a bit low at nary a premium. I own a few shares recently acquired at 8.4 Euros. It seems like aninvestor has acquired shares from the controlling family for 9.25 Euro and now wants to tender for shares from minority shareholder for the same price. I wonder if I should hold out for more. knowing this is Italy, I shouldn’t get my hopes too high I guess. This is a nice business I think - high end artisan jewelers sold in their own stores., worth 9x EV/EBIT? Where is Arnault?

width=600http://i.imgur.com/nemNQnJ.png]http://i.imgur.com/nemNQnJ.png[/img]

[minten]

they told me that they do not support this corporate action because of MFIR and MDIR II (I looked it up, it concerns trading in OTC markets) and I would need to transfer my shares to a different broker to get the shares tendered.

 

A small addition: i've encountered this situation as well: different stock, different tender though. I'm not US, and not from a country that generally has restrictions, so it's not nationality based, but rather IB based. They refuse to do Corporate Actions for French firms on the secondary tier of Euronext (whatever that is, I haven't looked into it) because of some sort of regulation.

 

I also couldn't tender. The end game was the same: when the offer had long closed and a delisting was in the works, a gigantic bid appeared equal to the tender price and you could sell on-market. Still, it's something worth considering when playing arb games on illiquid French stocks while with IB (and potentially others).