Where are the UFOs?

[DTEJD1997]

Hey all:

 

When I was a kid, I used to like to read and think about UFO's.  There were books & such detailing people's experiences seeing them & such.  Of course, there was also the Air Force's "Project Bluebook", and Leonard Nemoy's "In Search Of" TV show.  There were lots of photos showing grainy things in the clouds/sky that were UFO's....

 

Fast forward 40 years and there are BILLIONS of high resolution cameras that people carry with them ALL the time.

 

Of course, there are still photos of weird things in the sky from time to time...but no definitive proof.  Photos for the most part remain grainy...showing things way off in the distance.

 

If there are indeed UFO's flying around, you would think somebody would have captured proof of them by now.  OR if the government(s) had conclusive proof, somebody would have spilled the secret by now.

 

Oh well...

 

 

[DooDiligence]

This guy prob has an answer but I got bored after the 1st few paragraphs & never found out.

 

https://aeon.co/essays/why-have-we-stopped-seeing-ufos-in-the-skies

 

I'm thinking people are spending more time on social media & simply don't have time to look for them.

 

That & the aliens may have found a more attractive species to molest.

[Guest Cameron]

They roamed around Earth until they discovered our stock markets and realized there wasn't any intelligent life here.

 

My guess they left in 1999.

[UNF2007]

You should listen to some Coast to Coast AM, they have people all the time on who discuss stuff like that in a pseudoscientific way, it's really entertaining, and scary at the same time.  They also cover topics as diverse as cryptozoology, underground military bases, archaeological and anthropological mythology etc. 

[Partner24]

They roamed around Earth until they discovered our stock markets and realized there wasn't any intelligent life here.

 

My guess they left in 1999.

 

Ahahahahah  ;)

[cobafdek]

I read this author about 40 years ago, and was surprised he's still around.  I spotted him on the History Channel the other day. 

 

http://www.daniken.com/en/

 

He's trying to keep up by being on YouTube, Facebook, and having 40,000 Twitter followers.

 

But all this stuff is eclipsed by--you guessed it--current events.  The same cognitive errors are in play, especially confirmation bias.  During the Obama administration, the delusions were limited mostly to the fringe conservative news outlets (Obama as Muslim, Kenyan, anti-Christ, etc.)  Now it's most of the mainstream media.  It's pretty amazing when CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, New York Times, and Washington Post--not to mention the book on The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump by 27 psychiatrists--read like Chariots of the Gods. 

 

 

[Pelagic]

Increased light pollution across much of the world and decreased night vision thanks to staring into screens for most of the day means that even those who do take the time to look into the sky are likely only able to see a fraction of what previous generations saw. Still, just because you aren't able to identify something doesn't mean you should immediately jump to an extraterrestrial explanation.

 

I saw a sky lantern flying across the sky one night and watching an orange glowing ball race across at roughly 300 feet raised a number of questions, clearly it fit the bill for a "UFO" - then I saw 3 more pass by on the same course and got a glimpse of the paper bag part of one and mystery solved. With the increased availability of personal drones, I'm actually surprised we don't hear of more "UFO" sightings. 

[rkbabang]

If there are indeed UFO's flying around, you would think somebody would have captured proof of them by now.  OR if the government(s) had conclusive proof, somebody would have spilled the secret by now.

 

Yes you are exactly correct in the paragraph above. The conclusion I draw is that we have not been visited, or at least we are no longer being visited.  My personal opinion based on nothing concrete is that intelligent life is rarer than most scientists think and we may be the only intelligent species in the Milkyway right now.  There are surely others in other galaxies (there are just too many of them to think otherwise), but we may have this one to ourselves.

[Liberty]

They were never there in the first place. Ubiquitous cameras showed that. Leaks from even the NSA showed you can't keep secrets like that (Trump would've tweeted u by now). Same for yetis and others creatures (loch ness?).

 

Doesn't mean there can't be  life elsewhere in the universe, though.

[rb]

If there are indeed UFO's flying around, you would think somebody would have captured proof of them by now.  OR if the government(s) had conclusive proof, somebody would have spilled the secret by now.

 

Yes you are exactly correct in the paragraph above. The conclusion I draw is that we have not been visited, or at least we are no longer being visited.  My personal opinion based on nothing concrete is that intelligent life is rarer than most scientists think and we may be the only intelligent species in the Milkyway right now.  There are surely others in other galaxies (there are just too many of them to think otherwise), but we may have this one to ourselves.

Or it could be that the theory of relativity is the final authority on space travel. So it's impossible or impractical for intelligent intelligent species to meet. It may be that there's a lot (relatively speaking) of intelligent species out there but we were never meant to hang.

[DTEJD1997]

Hey all:

 

I think whether or not we've been visiting OR will be visited will depend on if the speed of light is the "speed limit".  If it is the speed limit....it seems that the vast distances between solar systems would serve as a sort of quarantine.  Of course, it would not serve as an absolute limit as you could have robotic probes OR multi-generational ships for living beings.  Of course, a multi-generational ship moving at something like 10% or 20% of the speed of light would be an incredibly massive undertaking and would likely be easy to spot.

 

I tend to think that there is indeed life elsewhere.  I also think that there might be intelligent life...but would we recognize it?  Would we even be able to interact with them?  Would they want to interact with us?  Would they even be industrialized or have technology?  What if they are intelligent creatures who live under water such as dolphins or whales?  How would we even interact with them?

 

I think the most likely probability is that we are able to pick up and listen on some type of broadcast from another civilization (SETI).  We would not even have to fully understand the broadcast, simply picking one up would conclusive proof of intelligent, technological life elsewhere in the universe.  EVEN if it were a "get rich quick using leverage in real estate on Zebulon 9!!!!" commercial....

 

If we could indeed find life out there...it would be one of the greatest events in human civilization.

[sleepydragon]

Hey all:

 

I think whether or not we've been visiting OR will be visited will depend on if the speed of light is the "speed limit".  If it is the speed limit....it seems that the vast distances between solar systems would serve as a sort of quarantine.  Of course, it would not serve as an absolute limit as you could have robotic probes OR multi-generational ships for living beings.  Of course, a multi-generational ship moving at something like 10% or 20% of the speed of light would be an incredibly massive undertaking and would likely be easy to spot.

 

I tend to think that there is indeed life elsewhere.  I also think that there might be intelligent life...but would we recognize it?  Would we even be able to interact with them?  Would they want to interact with us?  Would they even be industrialized or have technology?  What if they are intelligent creatures who live under water such as dolphins or whales?  How would we even interact with them?

 

I think the most likely probability is that we are able to pick up and listen on some type of broadcast from another civilization (SETI).  We would not even have to fully understand the broadcast, simply picking one up would conclusive proof of intelligent, technological life elsewhere in the universe.  EVEN if it were a "get rich quick using leverage in real estate on Zebulon 9!!!!" commercial....

 

If we could indeed find life out there...it would be one of the greatest events in human civilization.

 

Yeah, i heard a joke recently: earth people picked up a signal from outer space. They spent years to translate the message and finally got it. The message says: how much ft/sqrt the real estate at your planet?

[IceCreamMan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

[rb]

There's also the possibility that intelligent life is relatively new in the universe and we may be among the first. Or there are other intelligent species that are developing roughly at the same pace as us. The hard to fathom distances preventing contact.

 

Intelligent life takes time to develop. To get that time you need a period of galactic calm. As the galaxy was a lot more violent in its (not too distant) youth intelligent life had a much lower probability of developing as well as surviving.

[DTEJD1997]

Hey all:

 

I once read a book that was simply fascinating & well done...It was Existence by David Brin.

 

It is kind of a story of intergalactic "chain letters". 

 

In the story, a Chinese fisherman/scavenger finds a special orb.  The orb takes a liking to him and hijinks ensue.  It is so well written that you could almost see it happening next month...

 

It kind of discusses the Fermi paradox...what happens to civilizations.

 

I recommend it!

 

David Brin is a great writer of science fiction...he had many different good stories & books.

[Dynamic]

 

Neil de Grasse Tyson in the entertaining video link above mentions that we should remember that the U stands for Unidentified, and not jump to the alien hypothesis.

 

I have discovered that 'skeptic' fits my worldview better than most terms, and I'm a now a very small part of the organised Scientific Skepticism movement. I'm more aware of my own subconscious biases now than when I was a practising physicist. I should point out that true skepticism (unlike cynicism or denialism) implies willingness to accept evidence, but putting an appropriately high bar before accepting something that overturns the well-established position. On that basis I've overturned my initial doubts about Genetic Engineering (esp of food crops) and believe the Organic Food movement is largely in denial of the scientific evidence, as are many Green groups who conversely happen to be in accord with the scientific consensus with regard to climate change and global warming, although they may support poor policy approaches in many cases due to political or anti-capitalist biases.

 

As a physicist I was forced to accept the overwhelming evidence that the strange worlds of quantum effects and relativistic effects, are really present in nature, and are important enough to matter in some particular set of situations that we don't consider part of 'everyday' world. Yet now, the everyday devices we use require relativistic calculations to stop our GPS position from drifting kilometres per day due to the gravitational field in which the satellites operate, wireless communication requires 'imaginary numbers' to do the math to understand it and semiconductors/lasers we use daily rely on counter-intuitive quantum effects such as tunnelling to work. It even seems that the extraordinary efficiency of photosynthesis in chlorophyll can only be explained because evolution found quantum effects that could effectively 'explore' multiple pathways simultaneously without breaking quantum coherence (collapsing the wavefunction).

 

Returning to aliens/UFOs, it is interesting that phenomena such as sleep-paralysis, which affects 5% of people regularly and 8-50% at one time or another when the body's normal dream paralysis continues when the brain wakes up, could rationally explain many reports of alien abduction today as well as previous generations' Night Hags/incubi/demons sitting on the chest or abdomen preventing us from moving (and from the Old English word 'maere', we get the modern word nightmare) - which at the time would have made sense as a rationalisation to explain the very worrying phenomenon. Occam's Razor would tell me that's a very likely explanation for a large proportion of reported alien abductions.

 

There are so many things that can be easily misinterpreted by the 'good enough to survive the African savannah' human visual perception systems we've evolved as a species - e.g. nearby slow-moving illuminated insects being mistaken for silent distant luminous fast-moving spacecraft being just one of many more likely explanations, which necessarily vary depending on the type of phenomena reported and the circumstances. In fact, the absence of sonic booms among craft performing such supposedly super-fast manoeuvres is another indication they're not the result of objects moving at such speeds as the witnesses often assume.

 

That's not to say I don't expect intelligent life elsewhere in our galaxy of 100 billion starts or the wider universe of 100 billion galaxies, but the probability of contact may dwindle at the conjunction of the immense distances even within our galaxy, let alone to billions of others, and of the immense timescales (many such alien species may have lived and become extinct already, while others may be yet to evolve - our own time as a space-faring civilisation is less than a century old after about 4 billion years since the earth formed and cooled enough to have liquid water). We're only now starting to take the threat of asteroid impacts seriously. I can imagine a lot of promising alien species getting wiped out during their equivalent of what we'd call our pre-historic period. The ancient Romans, Greeks, Chinese and Aboriginals shared our intellect, for example, but lacked the technology to detect, let alone deflect an asteroid.

 

The Fermi paradox does seem to make it unlikely that the distances and times separating sufficiently intelligent species are anything other than enormous. I could envisage us creating self-replicating machines that could mine asteroids to replicate, travel using solar sails, and relay messages among their fleet to communicate their findings back to future generations on earth or elsewhere, and for this to happen within a couple of hundred years, if not sooner. If we're close enough to achieving it, perhaps other civilisation could have achieved something similar long ago. Now, perhaps they'd only fly-by planets like Earth very rarely and very fast, and perhaps they broadcast broadband signals that are hard to distinguish from noise. Could that explain why we've tried to look for signs of intelligent aliens or their technology but haven't found them yet?

[LongHaul]

Awesome post Dynamic!

 

100 billion galaxies is incredible.  If there are then 100 billion planets in each galaxy it is just an awesome number of potential life planets.  Not easy for me to get my mind around.  Seems like a super high probability event that there is life out there. 

[rkbabang]

Awesome post Dynamic!

 

100 billion galaxies is incredible.  If there are then 100 billion planets in each galaxy it is just an awesome number of potential life planets.  Not easy for me to get my mind around.  Seems like a super high probability event that there is life out there. 

 

 

There is a big difference between life and intelligent life.  There is another big difference between intelligent life and life capable of leaving its home planet.  Then there is another huge leap (one we have yet to make and have no near or medium term prospects of making) to life capable of interstellar travel within its home galaxy.  Then, probably the largest leap will be between life which can travel interstellar distances and life which has figured out how to travel intergalactic distances.  Unless there is new physics which we haven't figured out both of the last two categories may not even be possible.  Maybe all lifeforms to date have been trapped within their solar system of origin.

 

There is also the time scales to consider.  The universe is only 13 billion years old and Earthlike planets have only been possible for less time than that.    How likely is life really to appear on a planet that supports it?  The Earth is pretty life friendly yet it only originated here once in over 4.6B years (as far as we can tell).  If life was a sure thing, you would think that new completely unrelated lifeforms would be originating on earth all the time.  Even if it only happened every billion years there would be 4 completely different families of life on Earth, but there is only one.  What if whatever happened that day that life started on Earth failed to happen? Maybe Earth would still be barren of life and would remain that way forever. It certainly hasn't happened again in over 4B years.

 

Then there is the question, if life does develop how likely is intelligent life?  I'd propose that it is rare indeed.  It took 4.2B years for intelligent life to evolve on earth which was capable of leaving the planet.  What if in all that time we had one more mass-extinction event (or one fewer) it may have never happened at all.  The Earth might exist without intelligent life right up until the sun burned out. The universe has only been around for 13B years and it took us over 4B years to evolve, what if it usually takes a lot longer than that?  Maybe there hasn't been enough time yet for many intelligent life forms to exist.

 

Then there is the question, if intelligent life does form, what is the chance that it will be able to leave its planet?  Dolphins are intelligent, they communicate with each other and they have a culture passed down from one generation to the next.  Yet, they will live in the water, raise their families, hunt fish, play, etc, but because of the limitations of their biology they will never use tools or harness fire, etc...  How far would humans have gotten without opposable thumbs?  I think many intelligent species in the universe are probably evolutionary dead ends as far as settling the stars goes.  And how many "great filters" are there for even life like ours?  How many species destroy themselves with nuclear bombs or antimatter or nanotechnology or AI or something else long before settling their galaxies?

 

Like I said, I suspect intelligent life capable of interstellar travel is so rare that it is not at all surprising that we haven't been visited yet and I suspect that intergalactic travel will never be possible for any lifeform anywhere.  I also suspect that intelligent life itself is so rare that we may be the only ones in the Milkyway.  Whether we might find someway to detect life in the universe someday is an open question, but I seriously doubt we will ever meet up with any intelligent lifeforms in person.

 

[DCG]

It's crazy to think about how many other forms of life are likely out there. Some could literally be billions or trillions of years ahead of us.

 

 

It's also crazy to think that aliens would travel at least 25 trillion miles (the distance to the closest solar system astronomers think there's some potential for life) to go to our corn fields so they can make circles in them, and then turn around and go 25 trillion miles back home.

[rkbabang]

It's crazy to think about how many other forms of life are likely out there. Some could literally be billions or trillions of years ahead of us.

 

 

It's also crazy to think that aliens would travel at least 25 trillion miles (the distance to the closest solar system astronomers think there's some potential for life) to go to our corn fields so they can make circles in them, and then turn around and go 25 trillion miles back home.

 

Sometimes they kill cows, abduct and rape people and surgically put implants in their heads.

 

[DTEJD1997]

It's crazy to think about how many other forms of life are likely out there. Some could literally be billions or trillions of years ahead of us.

 

 

It's also crazy to think that aliens would travel at least 25 trillion miles (the distance to the closest solar system astronomers think there's some potential for life) to go to our corn fields so they can make circles in them, and then turn around and go 25 trillion miles back home.

 

That is one thing I could never get...Why would aliens be tormenting rednecks & hillbillies in trailer parks?

 

If I were an alien...I would be going to Vegas, NYC, Paris, Moscow, maybe military/tech hubs.

 

I might also comment & upload stuff to the interwebs....would be directing/manipulating stuff behind the scenes.  Kind of like the Pierson's Puppeteers from the Ringworld anthology.

 

Tormenting drunk hillbillies in trailer parks would be pretty low on the list!

 

Sometimes they kill cows, abduct and rape people and surgically put implants in their heads.

[LongHaul]

It's crazy to think about how many other forms of life are likely out there. Some could literally be billions or trillions of years ahead of us.

 

 

It's also crazy to think that aliens would travel at least 25 trillion miles (the distance to the closest solar system astronomers think there's some potential for life) to go to our corn fields so they can make circles in them, and then turn around and go 25 trillion miles back home.

 

That happened to me once.  They left a note saying they needed some ethanol.

[Jurgis]

It's crazy to think about how many other forms of life are likely out there. Some could literally be billions or trillions of years ahead of us.

 

 

It's also crazy to think that aliens would travel at least 25 trillion miles (the distance to the closest solar system astronomers think there's some potential for life) to go to our corn fields so they can make circles in them, and then turn around and go 25 trillion miles back home.

 

That happened to me once.  They left a note saying they needed some ethanol.

 

They also left a stock tip for me as thanks.

 

...

 

If only I had understood what they meant by "buy a googol of yahoos".  :'(

[misterkrusty]

Perhaps humanity has become so good at correctly identifying alien spacecraft that nothing goes unidentified.  So, they're just FOs. 

[Aberhound]

Why do we not see UFOs. I don't know but perhaps it is worth thinking about it from different frames of references. We will never be free if we fail to always challenge our worldview and see if we have missed something. Most people seem to travel in circles always confused by symptoms and rarely discern cause and effect then deal with the cause.

 

1. The fewer UFO sightings have an obvious explanation. Few people have military grade night vision goggles. Those that do report seeing hundreds of UFOs. This is just your tax dollars at work. Those missing trillions from the defence department and elsewhere were not wasted. This produces craft with better field control capability so they are seen less often. If these craft do not exist why the bill to allow the mining of asteroids by the private sector? Seems impractical without field control. Look at the eagle taking off from the moon during Apollo. Wouldn't a rocket cause more moon dust to be disturbed? Wouldn't the acceleration be more rapid from supposed 1/6th gravity to conserve fuel? To me it looks like a blast from explosives for show and anti-gravity thereafter. Viktor Schauberger admitted developing two types of anti-gravity for the Nazis in WW2. See the Fertile Earth.

 

2. Did you know the Michaelson Morley experiment was repeated and the result was the reverse? Others may be here just at a higher etheric frequency. That higher etheric frequency would have the same EMF as us but shifted higher so that the gravitational frequency below radar for us is probably near our infrared. Accordingly their earth is larger than ours so the surface is somewhere in our orbit. Their frequency is higher so their experience of time is faster than ours. So to communicate with them I would seek EMF in orbit and record it them slow it down and maybe it would be discernible. Perhaps they are able to control thought forms better than us and communicate that way. Now if our souls are at still higher frequencies perhaps if we can improve our ability to communicate with it that soul could better assist us as the soul being at a higher etheric level would be able to control a lower etheric level. This would suggest why it is wise to stop drinking and refrain from ejaculation to amp up the cerebral spinal fluid which is likely the transmitter/receiver. This might explain why the first thing the US did when they invaded Iraq was to make alcohol widely available and to broadcast porn. Think of the Fremen in Dune. What was Frank Herbert trying to tells us when he described the Fremen sexual practices? They refrained from ejaculation. They also consumed melange which increased spirit making their eyes blue, not alcohol which depresses spirit and brings out the darker aspects of the personality.

 

3. Perhaps these other intelligences are here. Perhaps the parasites etc. in our bodies are controlled by thought forms from these etheric frequencies so we are their fertilizer the same as worms provide fertilizer for us. This is another reason to follow the example of the Fremen and learn to disrupt the thought forms of those who persecute us. Isn't that the lesson in Dune to learn how to control the worm and earn our freedom? Toxoplasmosis for instance causes mice to lose their fear of cats. There are other examples of behaviour where the survival instinct is suppressed. I suspect other parasites cause people to want sugar, rampant sex in various orifices, etc. in conduct which is self destructive but beneficial to the parasite life cycle. Parasites seem to have more mind control ability than we realize. Where does that seeming intelligence come from? With toxoplasmosis how does it know to make us love and care for cats often hundreds of cats whereas in mice it causes them to lose their fear of mice then get eaten. Notice both behaviours is what is best for the parasite. Do you think their brains are in the parasites or at higher etheric levels? Test this by getting spirit of turpentine and think about taking a teaspoon on sugar. Does your brain seem to tell you that this is a bad idea? Where did that thought form come from? So who is in control, the worms and parasites that will be killed by the spirits of turpentine or you who will benefit from the treatment? And why are spirit of turpentine illegal in Canada? Was Merck crazy to put it in so many treatments in its 1899 Encyclopedia or more caring than our current set of leaders and bureaucrats? Pre WW1 writers seem better educated, more intelligent and clearer thinking than those after. Chekov was controlled by a worm in the Wrath of Khan. Perhaps the writers of Star Trek were given examples of recent discoveries by NASA etc. and fictionalized the discoveries.