Make Canada Great Again!

[Cardboard]

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/01/24/oleary-leads-as-tories-gain-ground-on-liberals-new-poll-shows.html

 

This has been flying under the radar from what I can tell on this site.

 

Change is badly needed up here too but, the populace seems well fed so they don't care.

 

Once housing collapses... Heck! I will run too and merge Canada with the U.S.!

 

Cardboard

[Gregmal]

The problem down here(in the US), is that the lower middle/middle/upper middle class fight for themselves while the lower/upper class play politics. On one end of the liberal spectrum, you've got the have nots who are entirely reliant of handouts. This is the largest demographic, period. Then on the upper end you have the "haves" who've already made their money and are well set, are more so now sanctimonious and all about philanthropy/seeking some twisted greater good.

 

I've always thought Canada had a slightly better balance, but all over it seems the hand out crowd is taking over.

[scorpioncapital]

Everything is cheaper in America, that is a big part of the problem up North. Also you can do more things without an crazy regulation - although there are many in the US they are still tame compared to Canada.

[valcont]

What we lack in the US is the common sensical middle of the road party. What we have is bunch of bigots,jesus freaks and homophobes on the right and

communist, tree huggers,uber PC on the left sucking up all the political oxygen. 

[ScottHall]

What we lack in the US is the common sensical middle of the road party. What we have is bunch of bigots,jesus freaks and homophobes on the right and

communist, tree huggers,uber PC on the left sucking up all the political oxygen.

 

+1

[DooDiligence]

What we lack in the US is the common sensical middle of the road party. What we have is bunch of bigots,jesus freaks and homophobes on the right and

communist, tree huggers,uber PC on the left sucking up all the political oxygen.

 

+++++!

 

Buffett / Munger for the next cycle

[SharperDingaan]

Canada is a small pond. A candidate doing the Trump thing would be vilified as a wannabe;

& have to fight against both the 'establishment', & the headwinds that Trump is creating.

 

For a Trump to succeed, a great many people have to fail to act when they had the chance to make a difference. Trumps approach is no longer a surprise, & there are simply way too many people in Canada with sharp elbows - who also know how to play rough hockey, & use the boards. The establishment would close ranks, isolate the wannabe, strangle both the party & the wannabes funding, and smear him/her relentlessly. KIll it in the crib.

 

Many of Trumps changes aren't bad, and frankly are long overdue; but the personality is toxic.

You catch more fly's with honey. Trumps ideas would be diluted and recast in a more acceptable personality; and the party will 'agree', in return for a lifting of the 'sanctions'.

 

There's nothing wrong with disruptive change,

but it's going to be within guide rails.

 

SD

 

 

 

 

 

[rb]

All i can say about winning elections in Canada with Trump Lite is Good Luck!

 

Aside from the fact that Canadians are different from Americans the electoral distribution is much different. The Greater Toronto Area has 55 seats (out of 338) - more than any province except Quebec. Last election the Conservatives won 5 out of the 55. Then there's Quebec - another liberal place, T Lite doesn't and it's a big thing over there. Quebec has 78 seats. To win elections in Canada you have to win big in the GTA and Quebec. On top of that you have to split the left. Otherwise forget it!

 

The reason we had a Conservative government is because it's leader was Stephen Harper who understood all of this. He was also fairly moderate, ruled the party with an iron fist and kept the crazies locked securely in a closet. When the Conservatives went too much to the right they lost. Bigly! The lesson they got form all of that? Let's let the crazies out of the closed and move further to the right.

 

As I've said. Good Luck!

[Cardboard]

Same could or was said of Trump in the U.S. just saying...

 

Cardboard

[rb]

What we lack in the US is the common sensical middle of the road party. What we have is bunch of bigots,jesus freaks and homophobes on the right and

communist, tree huggers,uber PC on the left sucking up all the political oxygen.

Since as a country we are to the left of the Unites States (the Democrats would be a right wing party over here) I would posit that your description of the the left applies to our left as well.

 

On the right we also have our bigots, jesus freaks, and homophobes. Though I would posit that there is a lower percentage up here and that they are also better behaved. But as I've said in a previous post we don't know much about them cause they weren't allowed to talk in the past.

 

It's just that you're not going to win elections here behaving like a knob. Our past Prime Minister (Conservative) was in the past the leader of the Reform Party which was populist and socially conservatives. However when there was a chance to win an election he dropped all of that, moved to the middle and locked the less desirable elements in the closet. Ontario and British Columbia (3rd for number of seats) are generally liberal places (Toronto especially) but they can be swingy (especially BC). They'll listen to what you have to say, won't just vote for a certain party no matter what like in the US. But you have to behave when you run or you'll be punished.

 

So I'd say that the political left and right in Canada are more or less the same as in the US but the people of Canada are different.

[rb]

Same could or was said of Trump in the U.S. just saying...

 

Cardboard

Yea, different country, different people, different geographics, different system.

 

I must admit a part of me wants for T Lite to win Conservative leadership and run for PM. You'll get a massive turnout election and a massive loss for T Lite. The the right will get the message that they should behave responsibly. Ala Stephen Harper circa 2008.

 

I want to have in Canada a strong center left and a strong center right and a good dialogue between them down the middle with none of the crazy nonsense.

[Mephistopheles]

What we lack in the US is the common sensical middle of the road party. What we have is bunch of bigots,jesus freaks and homophobes on the right and

communist, tree huggers,uber PC on the left sucking up all the political oxygen.

 

+++++!

 

Buffett / Munger for the next cycle

 

Assuming there's another cycle, +100

[rb]

What we lack in the US is the common sensical middle of the road party. What we have is bunch of bigots,jesus freaks and homophobes on the right and

communist, tree huggers,uber PC on the left sucking up all the political oxygen.

 

+++++!

 

Buffett / Munger for the next cycle

 

Assuming there's another cycle, +100

Hey guys, this thread is about Canada. Buffett and Munger are not eligible to run. Citizenship and stuff. They would be illegals!  :D 8)

[KinAlberta]

Hillsdale College Imprimis

 

Restoring America’s Economic Mobility

September 2016 • Volume 45, Number 9 • Frank Buckley

Frank Buckley

Author, The Way Back: Restoring the Promise of America

 

Excerpts:

 

So it is with Canada, a country that beats the U.S. hands down on economic mobility. Canada has the reputation of being more liberal than the U.S., but in reality it is more conservative because its liberal policies are written over a page of deep conservatism....

 

 

"There’s a top ten percent in Canada, of course, but its children are far more likely to descend into the middle or lower classes. There’s also a bottom ten percent, but its children are far more likely to rise to the top. The country of opportunity, the country we’ve imagined ourselves to be, isn’t dead—it moved to Canada, a country that ranks higher than the U.S. on measures of economic freedom. Yes, Canada has its much-vaunted Medicare system, but cross-border differences in health care don’t explain the mobility levels. And when you add it all up, America has a more generous welfare system than Canada or just about anywhere else. To explain

Canada’s higher mobility levels, one has to turn to differences in education systems, immigration laws, regulatory burdens, the rule of law, and corruption—on all of which counts, Canada is a more conservative country."

 

 

...With its more traditional legal system, Canada better respects the sanctity of contract and is less likely to weaken property rights with an American-style ...

 

The paradox is that Canadians employ conservative, free market means to achieve...

 

...

 

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/restoring-americas-economic-mobility/

Frank Buckley is a Foundation Professor at Scalia Law School at George Mason University..,

He is a senior editor of The American Spectator and the author of several books, including The Once and Future King: The Rise of Crown Government in America and The Way Back: Restoring the Promise of America

[RichardGibbons]

one has to turn to differences in education systems, immigration laws, regulatory burdens, the rule of law, and corruption—on all of which counts, Canada is a more conservative country.

 

This is interesting to me--does anyone actually have evidence of this? 

• Education Systems: Canada has more private education?  Or less public funding per capita?
  
• Immigration Laws: USA has more per capital immigration and less stringent requirements?  I can believe that, but I'm curious if there is actual evidence for that.
  
• Regulatory Burdens: This surprises me if it's true.  That said, Canada is far less litigation-prone, which might result in less need for stupid regulations.
  
• The Rule of law: Does this mean USA's laws are more liberal?  Punishments less harsh?  This is interesting to me, considering that, as far as I know, Canada doesn't have the death penalty, nor the skewed incarceration rate by ethnicity, nor the lack of gun controls, nor widespread civil forfeiture.  Or maybe he's just weighting contract law and property rights greatly?
  
• Corruption: This one confuses me, because I've always thought of corruption as orthogonal to degree of conservatism.  Canada is less corrupt, but why does that mean it's more conservative?
  

 

So yeah, it would be interesting understanding the reasoning these conclusions.

[Parsad]

I can't speak for all of Canada, BC or even Vancouver.  What I can tell you is that all my cousins and their children, as well as my brother and sister-in-law, and myself, have it better than my parents or their parents did. 

 

We all have better and nicer homes, multiple cars, better jobs, better access to food, better healthcare, more technological resources, better access to information, etc.  There are two significant areas that are different...yes, housing is expensive and elementary/high schools are more crowded.  I'm sure people could find other differences given enough time and thought, but there is no denying that quality of life overall is as good or better than previous generations.  And this isn't true only for them.  Most of their friends, my friends, and associates are much better. 

 

Like every generation, there will be a different set of challenges...but that's part of life.  The number and acceptance of blended marriages/relationships is something that wasn't even totally acceptable just one generation ago.  Today, in my family and extended family alone, we are essentially a United Nations coalition!  This would have had challenges in my mother and father's generation, and would not have been acceptable in my grandparent's generation.  There are always going to be people who look at the glass as half-empty...these are the Trumps of the world. 

 

There have been a number of stories in Vancouver about refugee families who have come here...muslim and non-muslim.  Some of their experiences resonated with what my father, mother and their families went through as immigrant families.  I watched with repulsion...a very, deep sickening feeling...as Donald Trump banned immigrants/refugees from several pre-dominantly muslim countries.  Yet, he will speed up the process of Christian refugees attempting to emigrate to the United States.  Blatant religious persecution...they have become their enemy.   

 

I cannot imagine Canada ever becoming a melting-pot like the United States, rather than the multi-cultural nation it is.  For much of my life, and I think many Canadians have felt this way...that their country always played second-fiddle or was lacking relative to the United States.  I don't think Canadians feel that way anymore!  Cheers! 

[tengen]

especially for cardboard:

[Gregmal]

I can't speak for all of Canada, BC or even Vancouver.  What I can tell you is that all my cousins and their children, as well as my brother and sister-in-law, and myself, have it better than my parents or their parents did. 

 

We all have better and nicer homes, multiple cars, better jobs, better access to food, better healthcare, more technological resources, better access to information, etc.  There are two significant areas that are different...yes, housing is expensive and elementary/high schools are more crowded.  I'm sure people could find other differences given enough time and thought, but there is no denying that quality of life overall is as good or better than previous generations.  And this isn't true only for them.  Most of their friends, my friends, and associates are much better. 

 

Like every generation, there will be a different set of challenges...but that's part of life.  The number and acceptance of blended marriages/relationships is something that wasn't even totally acceptable just one generation ago.  Today, in my family and extended family alone, we are essentially a United Nations coalition!  This would have had challenges in my mother and father's generation, and would not have been acceptable in my grandparent's generation.  There are always going to be people who look at the glass as half-empty...these are the Trumps of the world. 

 

There have been a number of stories in Vancouver about refugee families who have come here...muslim and non-muslim.  Some of their experiences resonated with what my father, mother and their families went through as immigrant families.  I watched with repulsion...a very, deep sickening feeling...as Donald Trump banned immigrants/refugees from several pre-dominantly muslim countries.  Yet, he will speed up the process of Christian refugees attempting to emigrate to the United States.  Blatant religious persecution...they have become their enemy.   

 

I cannot imagine Canada ever becoming a melting-pot like the United States, rather than the multi-cultural nation it is.  For much of my life, and I think many Canadians have felt this way...that their country always played second-fiddle or was lacking relative to the United States.  I don't think Canadians feel that way anymore!  Cheers!

 

I have long been an admirer of Canada and even considered potentially moving there under various circumstances(none having to do with politics).

 

The issue when comparing to the US is its an apples and oranges situation. Canada has not made enemies everywhere on Earth by constantly meddling in everyone's business. Canada does not have a neighbor to the south who's people regularly trespass(in many cases violently, and often with contraband) and then blow out babies with no intention of paying a penny. Canada, because it has not really made enemies the way the US has, does not have to worry to the same extent about people coming into the country and seeking to annihilate it's citizens for no good reason. I would also probably gander that the education system in Canada (pre-university) is worlds better; which is also partially the reason its citizens happen to be more insightful and productive, although thats just my opinion. I do some business with folks in Vancouver/BC and the long running joke is that the only difference between BC and California is that BC basically offers everything you'd like about California, without much of the shit you wouldn't. I kind of feel this applies to Canada vs the US as well.

[KinAlberta]

Surprise! We’re more conservative than Americans - The Globe and Mail

 

Excerpt:

Despite our cherished liberal Canadian values, our behaviour in family matters is a good deal more conservative than that of Americans. Our marriage rates are higher and our divorce rates are lower. Twenty-seven per cent of American children live in single-parent families. And the number of children born to unmarried mothers – especially to women in their 20s – is soaring. In 2010, 40.8 per cent of births in the U.S. were to unmarried women. That rate is growing fastest among the white lower-middle class – the very people who tend to vote Republican and loudly thump the tub for traditional family values.

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/surprise-were-more-conservative-than-americans/article4555404/

 

[Uccmal]

Anyone vying for the PC leadership at this point in the election cycle is kissing his political ass goodbye.  They are just serving as the Tory parties sacrificial lamb for the next election, and maybe the one after that. 

 

Look at your history.  Canada votes leaders out, not in.  And we keep our elected leaders and their parties for two terms mimimum. 

Pierre T. : 16 years total - short interuption by Clark

Mulrooney: two terms: His unelected successor got turfed.

Chretien: 10 yrs.: His unelected successor got turfed.

Harper: 9'yrs.: He got beat.  No one has every served though more than 3. consecutive elections.

 

Trudeau jr.: 2015 to 2024: Minimum.

 

Like it or not, Canada is pretty stable politically and we stay European right, US far left.  Our closest comparators are Britain, Australia, and NZ. 

 

O'Leary, himself, ironically has developed this blowhard TV personality but its not real.  He has done nature documentaries, and is a very avid nature photographer.  He is also far more worldly, aware, and intelligent, than DT. 

[Cardboard]

So if he enjoyed hunting he would be someone to be careful of (maybe unaware and not intelligent?) but, since he is doing amateur photography...

 

You should read on how he made his initial fortune. Not sure that the buyer was pleased.

 

Cardboard

[KinAlberta]

A different orientation:

 

Peace, order, and good government

 

In many Commonwealth jurisdictions, the phrase "peace, order, and good government" is an expression used in law to express the legitimate objects of legislative powers conferred by statute. The phrase appears in many Imperial Acts of Parliament and Letters Patent, most notably the constitutions of Canada, the Commonwealth of Australia and, formerly, New Zealand and South Africa. Contrast with "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness", a spiritually-similar phrase found in the United States Declaration of Independence.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace,_order,_and_good_government

 

 

A maturing colony being treated as such by the British Privy Council when it overruled Canada's own Supreme Court:

 

The British North America Act planted in Canada a living tree capable of growth and expansion within its natural limits. The object of the Act was to grant a Constitution to Canada. Like all written constitutions it has been subject to development through usage and convention...

 

Their Lordships do not conceive it to be the duty of this Board—it is certainly not their desire—to cut down the provisions of the Act by a narrow and technical construction, but rather to give it a large and liberal interpretation so that the Dominion to a great extent, but within certain fixed limits, may be mistress in her own house, as the provinces to a great extent, but within certain fixed limits, are mistresses in theirs." - Lord Sankey, 1929?

 

 

 

 

In Canadian law, the living tree doctrine (French: théorie de l'arbre vivant) is a doctrine of constitutional interpretation that says that a constitution is organic and must be read in a broad and progressive manner so as to adapt it to the changing times.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_tree_doctrine

 

 

 

Bolding above is mine

[KinAlberta]

For those that are unfamiliar with Canada and see it as heavily left leaning, some more trivia: My province had a flat income tax, one of only a few in North America. Plus our province also has no provincial sales tax (just the 5% federal sales tax).

 

I used to agree with the flat tax but no longer agree with it and think the Conservative and NDP governments were wise to end it. The left leaning NDP has raised larger corporate taxes but also cut small business taxes. (Personally I'd work towards eliminating all direct corporate income taxes but the NDP was wise raising them in the current economic environment and within the current tax regime structure..)

 

 

Alberta budget: Goodbye flat tax! Province turns to progressive tax | Calgary Herald

 

..

One of the signature moves of former Tory premier Ralph Klein and provides political ammunition to his opponents as he prepares to call an early election.

 

While the NDP and Liberals have long called for the government to scrap the flat tax, NDP Leader Rachel Notley and interim Liberal Leader David Swann both said Thursday Prentice did not go far enough in the income tax changes. They believe he should have also raised corporate tax rates, which were left untouched.

 

“Jim Prentice is asking Albertans to pay much more for considerably less, and he’s putting that burden specifically on middle-income families, and he’s doing that so he can protect his backroom, boardroom buddies,” Notley told reporters.

 

 

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/budget-province-turns-to-progressive-income-tax-health-levy-and-user-fee-hikes-to-address-5-billion-deficit

 

Eight states had flat income taxes, not sure if they had zero state sales taxes

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_income_tax

 

[Cardboard]

"For those that are unfamiliar with Canada and see it as heavily left leaning..."

 

Your post highlights that even Alberta is heading towards heavily left leaning...

 

Cardboard

[Parsad]

 

O'Leary, himself, ironically has developed this blowhard TV personality but its not real.  He has done nature documentaries, and is a very avid nature photographer.  He is also far more worldly, aware, and intelligent, than DT.

 

You're correct.  O'Leary is nothing like Trump...he even made that distinction almost immediately.  Even he wanted to make clear...uh no, I'm not that guy!  Cheers!