Trump wants to cancel Air Force One order from Boeing

[Cardboard]

A lot of you sound like sore losers from the election.

 

The Washington Post, which is not known to be part of the Right Wing Conspiracy Group, has reported that $125 billion is wasted in procurement activities at the Pentagon. That is 31 times the figure that Trump has reported regarding the new Air Force One program.

 

So even if his figures are slightly off from the $2.9 billion that has now surfaced, I think it is good that someone in government is finally pointing out this absurd level of spending/waste while so many people are just getting by.

 

The absurd level of delay and cost for the Stealth Fighter program should also be examined and this affects many countries.

 

Cardboard   

[DooDiligence]

A lot of you sound like sore losers from the election.

 

The Washington Post, which is not known to be part of the Right Wing Conspiracy Group, has reported that $125 billion is wasted in procurement activities at the Pentagon. That is 31 times the figure that Trump has reported regarding the new Air Force One program.

 

So even if his figures are slightly off from the $2.9 billion that has now surfaced, I think it is good that someone in government is finally pointing out this absurd level of spending/waste while so many people are just getting by.

 

The absurd level of delay and cost for the Stealth Fighter program should also be examined and this affects many countries.

 

Cardboard 

 

Although I despise the Donald I do hope he accomplishes some gratuitous cuts (I'm socially liberal & fiscally conservative & am trying to reconcile the two...)

 

I also rather liked his Taiwan thingy.

[boilermaker75]

 

(I'm socially liberal & fiscally conservative & am trying to reconcile the two...)

 

 

I think there are a lot of us. We are lacking a party to represent us.

[wachtwoord]

 

(I'm socially liberal & fiscally conservative & am trying to reconcile the two...)

 

 

I think there are a lot of us. We are lacking a party to represent us.

 

Libertarian.

[Jurgis]

(I'm socially liberal & fiscally conservative & am trying to reconcile the two...)

 

I used to think that I was too, but then I realized that they are not as orthogonal as it seems from the first glance. Usually the first thing "fiscal conservatives" aim their knife at is social programs.

 

I agree however that the waste and graft in government and its contractors should be cut and controlled. It's not as trivial as the Orange T suggests. Some pressure is probably good though.

 

 

[rkbabang]

(I'm socially liberal & fiscally conservative & am trying to reconcile the two...)

 

I used to think that I was too, but then I realized that they are not as orthogonal as it seems from the first glance. Usually the first thing "fiscal conservatives" aim their knife at is social programs.

 

I agree however that the waste and graft in government and its contractors should be cut and controlled. It's not as trivial as the Orange T suggests. Some pressure is probably good though.

 

That's because the obvious place to cut is the military and that is off limits to the Republigoons, so they go after social programs instead.

 

"Orange T"!  I love it.

 

[wachtwoord]

(I'm socially liberal & fiscally conservative & am trying to reconcile the two...)

 

I used to think that I was too, but then I realized that they are not as orthogonal as it seems from the first glance. Usually the first thing "fiscal conservatives" aim their knife at is social programs.

 

I agree however that the waste and graft in government and its contractors should be cut and controlled. It's not as trivial as the Orange T suggests. Some pressure is probably good though.

 

Socially liberal means that you allow people to do whatever the hell they want (marry someone of the same sex, abort an unborn child, kill themselves etc) as long as it doesn't impose on the freedom of others. The financially conservative part makes sure that those government run social programs you talk of don't exist in the first place as to pay for them you need to violate the property rights of people who do not wish to contribute.

 

Perfect combo :)

[boilermaker75]

 

(I'm socially liberal & fiscally conservative & am trying to reconcile the two...)

 

 

I think there are a lot of us. We are lacking a party to represent us.

 

Libertarian.

 

 

Then I am not adequately describing myself with the terms socially liberal & fiscally conservative. 

[rkbabang]

 

(I'm socially liberal & fiscally conservative & am trying to reconcile the two...)

 

 

I think there are a lot of us. We are lacking a party to represent us.

 

Libertarian.

 

 

Then I am not adequately describing myself with the terms socially liberal & fiscally conservative. 

 

That is because you probably mean: Socially liberal, but not too socially liberal, & fiscally conservative, but not too fiscally conservative.  I believe the term is moderate.

 

 

[DCG]

Until the Libertarian party can produce a candidate that isn't a complete joke like Gary Johnson, it's tough for people to take the party seriously on any level.

[Cardboard]

"Socially liberal means that you allow people to do whatever the hell they want (marry someone of the same sex, abort an unborn child, kill themselves etc) as long as it doesn't impose on the freedom of others."

 

I guess this sums up why we need laws and hence a government to make them and to police them.

 

Then after that it is only a matter of balance to keep things in check. Easier said than done.

 

Cardboard

[DooDiligence]

 

(I'm socially liberal & fiscally conservative & am trying to reconcile the two...)

 

 

I think there are a lot of us. We are lacking a party to represent us.

 

Libertarian.

 

 

Then I am not adequately describing myself with the terms socially liberal & fiscally conservative. 

 

That is because you probably mean: Socially liberal, but not too socially liberal, & fiscally conservative, but not too fiscally conservative.  I believe the term is moderate.

 

That's the nicest thing I've been called recently - thanks...

[DooDiligence]

 

it is only a matter of balance to keep things in check. Easier said than done.

 

Cardboard

 

Truth

[Jurgis]

 

(I'm socially liberal & fiscally conservative & am trying to reconcile the two...)

 

 

I think there are a lot of us. We are lacking a party to represent us.

 

I vote for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Movement_(Lithuania)

Which might come as a surprise for some people who consider me red incarnate.  8)

 

Not that it's ideal match and yeah, I don't think there's equivalent in US.

[rkbabang]

 

(I'm socially liberal & fiscally conservative & am trying to reconcile the two...)

 

 

I think there are a lot of us. We are lacking a party to represent us.

 

Libertarian.

 

 

Then I am not adequately describing myself with the terms socially liberal & fiscally conservative. 

 

That is because you probably mean: Socially liberal, but not too socially liberal, & fiscally conservative, but not too fiscally conservative.  I believe the term is moderate.

 

That's the nicest thing I've been called recently - thanks...

 

You are welcome, but not too welcome.

 

[DooDiligence]

 

That's the nicest thing I've been called recently - thanks...

 

You are welcome, but not too welcome.

 

  ;D

[rb]

 

(I'm socially liberal & fiscally conservative & am trying to reconcile the two...)

 

 

I think there are a lot of us. We are lacking a party to represent us.

 

Libertarian.

 

 

Then I am not adequately describing myself with the terms socially liberal & fiscally conservative.

I fall in the same bucket of socially liberal and fiscally conservative. And yea fiscally conservative and Libertarian are definitely not the same thing. Libertarians seem to have an allergy to paying taxes no matter what the outcome. As a fiscal conservative I'm in favor of efficiency. In favour of the government doing what it does best and no more. For example I'm in favor of single payer health care because it's delivered cheaper not because of a great love of government. I don't care if I pay my money to the gov't or to an insurance company.

 

But I'm not in favor of gov't run airlines. The private sector has done that very efficiently and it should stay that way. I'm also not ok with massive surveillance programs where you have armies of employees/contractors that get fat paychecks to read my email.

 

Also as a fiscal conservative I am also looking for the gov't to keep its fiscal position roughly in balance over a cycle. By no means does that mean a balanced budget mandate. I recognize that during bad times the gov't needs to run deficits but those should be balanced by surpluses during good times. It definitely doesn't mean it ok to hand out tax cuts like Halloween candy to top earners early and often. Definitely not when you're running deficits.

 

I believe that those views have a whiff of libertarianism in them, but with views like that I'm pretty far from actual libertarians.

[Jurgis]

I fall in the same bucket of socially liberal and fiscally conservative. And yea fiscally conservative and Libertarian are definitely not the same thing. Libertarians seem to have an allergy to paying taxes no matter what the outcome. As a fiscal conservative I'm in favor of efficiency. In favour of the government doing what it does best and no more. For example I'm in favor of single payer health care because it's delivered cheaper not because of a great love of government. I don't care if I pay my money to the gov't or to an insurance company.

 

But I'm not in favor of gov't run airlines. The private sector has done that very efficiently and it should stay that way. I'm also not ok with massive surveillance programs where you have armies of employees/contractors that get fat paychecks to read my email.

 

Also as a fiscal conservative I am also looking for the gov't to keep its fiscal position roughly in balance over a cycle. By no means does that mean a balanced budget mandate. I recognize that during bad times the gov't needs to run deficits but those should be balanced by surpluses during good times. It definitely doesn't mean it ok to hand out tax cuts like Halloween candy to top earners early and often. Definitely not when you're running deficits.

 

I believe that those views have a whiff of libertarianism in them, but with views like that I'm pretty far from actual libertarians.

 

Not a bad platform  8)

[rkbabang]

 

(I'm socially liberal & fiscally conservative & am trying to reconcile the two...)

 

 

I think there are a lot of us. We are lacking a party to represent us.

 

Libertarian.

 

 

Then I am not adequately describing myself with the terms socially liberal & fiscally conservative.

I fall in the same bucket of socially liberal and fiscally conservative. And yea fiscally conservative and Libertarian are definitely not the same thing. Libertarians seem to have an allergy to paying taxes no matter what the outcome. As a fiscal conservative I'm in favor of efficiency. In favour of the government doing what it does best and no more. For example I'm in favor of single payer health care because it's delivered cheaper not because of a great love of government. I don't care if I pay my money to the gov't or to an insurance company.

 

But I'm not in favor of gov't run airlines. The private sector has done that very efficiently and it should stay that way. I'm also not ok with massive surveillance programs where you have armies of employees/contractors that get fat paychecks to read my email.

 

Also as a fiscal conservative I am also looking for the gov't to keep its fiscal position roughly in balance over a cycle. By no means does that mean a balanced budget mandate. I recognize that during bad times the gov't needs to run deficits but those should be balanced by surpluses during good times. It definitely doesn't mean it ok to hand out tax cuts like Halloween candy to top earners early and often. Definitely not when you're running deficits.

 

I believe that those views have a whiff of libertarianism in them, but with views like that I'm pretty far from actual libertarians.

 

I like this political compass that I found here: https://directionlessbones.wordpress.com/2009/09/04/the-political-compass-and-class-politics-a-better-wa-to-classify-ideologies/

And also included in this message. What most Americans think of as Libertarian would be located on the classical liberal line between liberal and conservative. You and DooDiligence sound like you are near that line but in the grey.  I'd place myself in the green anarchist-capitalist section.

 

[rb]

And also included in this message. What most Americans think of as Libertarian would be located on the classical liberal line between liberal and conservative. You and DooDiligence sound like you are near that line but in the grey.  I'd place myself in the green anarchist-capitalist section.

LOL, basically me and Doo are just boring nice guys

[rkbabang]

And also included in this message. What most Americans think of as Libertarian would be located on the classical liberal line between liberal and conservative. You and DooDiligence sound like you are near that line but in the grey.  I'd place myself in the green anarchist-capitalist section.

LOL, basically me and Doo are just boring nice guys

 

I didn't accuse you of being nice or boring.  I prefer "misguided".

 

[Rainforesthiker]

 

(I'm socially liberal & fiscally conservative & am trying to reconcile the two...)

 

 

I think there are a lot of us. We are lacking a party to represent us.

 

Libertarian.

 

 

Then I am not adequately describing myself with the terms socially liberal & fiscally conservative.

 

Or perhaps you just need to understand libertarianism better . . .

[Rainforesthiker]

Until the Libertarian party can produce a candidate that isn't a complete joke like Gary Johnson, it's tough for people to take the party seriously on any level.

 

This, unfortunately, is true.

[Rainforesthiker]

 

(I'm socially liberal & fiscally conservative & am trying to reconcile the two...)

 

 

I think there are a lot of us. We are lacking a party to represent us.

 

Libertarian.

 

 

Then I am not adequately describing myself with the terms socially liberal & fiscally conservative.

I fall in the same bucket of socially liberal and fiscally conservative. And yea fiscally conservative and Libertarian are definitely not the same thing. Libertarians seem to have an allergy to paying taxes no matter what the outcome. As a fiscal conservative I'm in favor of efficiency. In favour of the government doing what it does best and no more. For example I'm in favor of single payer health care because it's delivered cheaper not because of a great love of government. I don't care if I pay my money to the gov't or to an insurance company.

 

But I'm not in favor of gov't run airlines. The private sector has done that very efficiently and it should stay that way. I'm also not ok with massive surveillance programs where you have armies of employees/contractors that get fat paychecks to read my email.

 

Also as a fiscal conservative I am also looking for the gov't to keep its fiscal position roughly in balance over a cycle. By no means does that mean a balanced budget mandate. I recognize that during bad times the gov't needs to run deficits but those should be balanced by surpluses during good times. It definitely doesn't mean it ok to hand out tax cuts like Halloween candy to top earners early and often. Definitely not when you're running deficits.

 

I believe that those views have a whiff of libertarianism in them, but with views like that I'm pretty far from actual libertarians.

 

" in favor of single-payer healthcare because it's delivered cheaper?"  With single-payer healthcare, there is absolutely no incentive on the consumer to shop for prices or control costs. It is very inefficient.

[wachtwoord]

Until the Libertarian party can produce a candidate that isn't a complete joke like Gary Johnson, it's tough for people to take the party seriously on any level.

 

This, unfortunately, is true.

 

Yes, but it's not like any of the 2 primary parties had a decent candidate. At least the US has a libertarian party with more than 6 members ...