Oh Wilbur...

[vinod1]

Have you seen Hillary Clinton in Omaha with Buffett sitting right behind her and yelling?

 

"We are going to raise taxes on the middle class!"

 

And then you see poor Buffett applauding and cheering like a fool!

 

He is the most hypocrite tax evader alive. "Tax more the rich!" Yeah right, I am sure that he has already every tool at his disposal to avoid paying these new taxes.

 

Have you also watched the Berkshire Hathaway shareholders meeting this year?

 

Have you heard directly from him that Berkshire Energy could not possibly be in the solar and wind business if it wasn't for all the subsidies?

 

Then he turns around and refuse to pay high prices from the owners of solar panels in Nevada for their excess power.

 

What is it? Subsidize me but, not others?

 

Then there is the XL pipeline which has been blocked for 8 years and many more pipelines by FERC and others. I am assuming that this didn't provide any benefit to BNSF to carry more oil via railcars?

 

There you have it Mr. Buffett. Not only are you an hypocrite on taxes and why you support these corrupt individuals but, you also have blood on your hands from 47 people who died in Lac Megantic and elsewhere from a crazy practice that you supported.

 

Cardboard

 

Buffett is just playing by the rules. All he was saying is that the rules need to be changed (tax increases for the rich). He would be happy to pay the higher taxes when they get raised for everyone.

 

Say you believe that oil price should be $100 and that it is low only because it is being manipulated by some players. As a result you get retail gasoline prices in in $2 a gallon range. Because you believe it should be closer to $4 a gallon, when you put gas in your car do you pay $4 per gallon even when the gas station is selling it at $2 per gallon?

 

If not, your actions are no different then Buffett.

 

Vinod

 

[Investor20]

 

Buffett is just playing by the rules. All he was saying is that the rules need to be changed (tax increases for the rich). He would be happy to pay the higher taxes when they get raised for everyone.

 

Vinod

 

Buffett situation is different than most people.  The money he takes out each year is a tiny (miniscule) portion of his real earnings.  Even though he made 60 Billion plus, the total money he paid tax on is a tiny fraction of it. And this would be the case whatever the capital gains rate is.

 

That is not the case for most of us.  So, please stop comparing what Buffett thinks about his finances and what the common people like us want.

 

[Guest longinvestor]

 

Buffett is just playing by the rules. All he was saying is that the rules need to be changed (tax increases for the rich). He would be happy to pay the higher taxes when they get raised for everyone.

 

Vinod

 

Buffett situation is different than most people.  The money he takes out each year is a tiny (miniscule) portion of his real earnings.  Even though he made 60 Billion plus, the total money he paid tax on is a tiny fraction of it. And this would be the case whatever the capital gains rate is.

 

That is not the case for most of us.  So, please stop comparing what Buffett thinks about his finances and what the common people like us want.

 

Buffett and his wife opted to live a middle class life early in their life (20's). They kind of knew that wealth was coming their way but wanted their children to have a midwestern, middle class lifestyle just like they themselves or their parents/grand parents did. This was an informed personal choice. the wealth you are talking about is something he treats as excess that goes back to society, this is the way they always thought about it, even before accumulating it. He still lives that lifestyle which makes him a very credible messenger for the middle class; He is to me and apparently to a lot of other people. No message board poster with an alias is going to change that image of Buffett by banging at the keyboard.

 

 

 

 

[Mephistopheles]

I agree with Vinod.

 

Just because Buffett doesn't voluntarily pay more taxes than he legally owes, doesn't make him a hypocrite for advocating for higher tax rates! I don't understand the logic of people who say otherwise. The idea isn't for him to pay more taxes himself; everyone hates paying taxes, including him. The idea is to have a fiscal policy in place that is in his view fairer. He can pay 100% of his net worth in taxes and it wouldn't make a difference if the policy remains the way it is! The goal is to fight social inequity, not to personally pay more in taxes! And needless to say, he is putting 99% of his money where his mouth is in helping solve these inequities.

 

It's like saying:

 

"If you're concerned about inflation and think the Fed should therefore raise rates, you would be a hypocrite for taking advantage of 0% financing."

 

Does that not sound silly?

 

Having said that, I don't agree with many of Buffett's arguments and do believe that a lot of what he says on this topic is misleading and self serving.

[Investor20]

 

Buffett and his wife opted to live a middle class life early in their life (20's).

 

Did I say he did not?  You are extrapolating more than I said.  All I said is that Buffett being happy to pay higher tax rate on Capital Gains does not mean I have to be happy. I don't have 60 Billions for sure. His finances are very different than mine, and I am sure everyone on this board.  Are you saying I am wrong on this?

 

Let me give you another example, for Buffett drinking coca-cola and eating ice cream works.  It does not for me. My metabolism is different than his.  I cannot blindly follow Buffett in everything that makes him happy.

 

 

[rb]

Buffett and his wife opted to live a middle class life early in their life (20's). They kind of knew that wealth was coming their way but wanted their children to have a midwestern, middle class lifestyle just like they themselves or their parents/grand parents did. This was an informed personal choice. the wealth you are talking about is something he treats as excess that goes back to society, this is the way they always thought about it, even before accumulating it. He still lives that lifestyle which makes him a very credible messenger for the middle class; He is to me and apparently to a lot of other people. No message board poster with an alias is going to change that image of Buffett by banging at the keyboard.

+1 Very well and eloquently put.

 

I can relate a lot to that. I come from a family where for a couple of generations it was instilled in us that you have to work to make money. Out of the money you make you always have to live from income and never spend the savings. One side effect of that is that it builds a bit of wealth over time. But the main thing is that it instilled a lot of discipline in us and made us grounded. When faced with the fact that we should turn down a purchase that we want and could afford because it would violate those family rules, and sticking with those, i think it made us better individuals.

 

In Buffetts case, there's plenty of people that always say that because they befitted from the current system they should keep their mouth shut. But this is an individual who is asking for reforms that are to his financial detriment because he thinks that it would benefit the country. That is a breath of fresh air. Much different the a lot of the me, me, me, me first and screw the rest crowd. It is also uplifting that he is not the only one.

 

I should also add that he, a private citizen is the one that steps up and willing to release his tax return, without running for any office. The guy who is running for the office of president is declining to do so, in spite of the precedent set up by many before him. Nevermind his birth certificate and college transcripts that were requested from a certain sitting president (who was elected in a pretty decisive election) in order to prove his legitimacy.

[Investor20]

I come from a family where for a couple of generations it was instilled in us that you have to work to make money. Out of the money you make you always have to live from income and never spend the savings. One side effect of that is that it builds a bit of wealth over time.

 

 

Yes, I relate to a lot in living within the means and our country is not doing that right now.  You think budget deficits and trade deficits are living within the means?  Only one candidate brought the trade deficits problem and wanting to fix it. Buffett himself said (I provided references for this in my earlier posts) trade deficits is like living off credit card.  I support the policies that make the country living within the means.

 

I also care issues like this too:

 

Facing Cancer Drug Shortage, U.S. Relies on Banned Chinese Plant

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-22/facing-cancer-drug-shortage-u-s-relies-on-banned-chinese-plant

 

Drug Shortages Forcing Hard Decisions on Rationing Treatments

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/29/us/drug-shortages-forcing-hard-decisions-on-rationing-treatments.html?_r=0

 

Two Children Are Sick. There’s Medicine For One. Who Gets It? Who Decides?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/11/insider/podcast-drug-shortages-in-america-rationing-scarce-resources.html

 

[randomep]

I come from a family where for a couple of generations it was instilled in us that you have to work to make money. Out of the money you make you always have to live from income and never spend the savings. One side effect of that is that it builds a bit of wealth over time.

 

 

Yes, I relate to a lot in living within the means and our country is not doing that right now.  You think budget deficits and trade deficits are living within the means?  Only one candidate brought the trade deficits problem and wanting to fix it. Buffett himself said (I provided references for this in my earlier posts) trade deficits is like living off credit card.  I support the policies that make the country living within the means.

 

I also care issues like this too:

 

Facing Cancer Drug Shortage, U.S. Relies on Banned Chinese Plant

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-22/facing-cancer-drug-shortage-u-s-relies-on-banned-chinese-plant

 

Drug Shortages Forcing Hard Decisions on Rationing Treatments

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/29/us/drug-shortages-forcing-hard-decisions-on-rationing-treatments.html?_r=0

 

Two Children Are Sick. There’s Medicine For One. Who Gets It? Who Decides?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/11/insider/podcast-drug-shortages-in-america-rationing-scarce-resources.html

 

 

 

What is the point of pointing out faults with healthcare in a vacuum. So healthcare sucks, life sucks! But we  are talking about an election.  What can any president do about specific faults with the health system as you pointed out. 

 

I am not saying society is fantastic for everyone. I am simply saying Trump isn't going to improve things any better than any other president. We know little if anything about how or what he'll do, despite him saying America sucks now and he will make it great again.

 

Someone just said earlier in the thread, we need to blow up the government. And blow up the medical and pharma industry too?  It implies we need a revolution and rebuild society. This is like communist doctrine at the turn of the century, but you can see life was really hard in Russia, so revolution sounds good cos the average person doesn't have anything to lose. Why the urgency now?  America didn't go downhill overnight did it? In fact my point is America isn't going downhill for the average person. And if some average person feels then I ask what time do you want to go back to and why?

 

 

 

[VersaillesinNY]

Holy moley, that's is a clear statement from Republican national security experts.

 

A Letter From G.O.P. National Security Officials Opposing Donald Trump

Dozens of the nation’s most senior Republican national security officials, many of them former top aides or cabinet members for President George W. Bush, have signed a letter saying they will not vote for Mr. Trump, the Republican nominee.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/08/08/us/politics/national-security-letter-trump.html?_r=0

 

 

[randomep]

Holy moley, that's is a clear statement from Republican national security experts.

 

A Letter From G.O.P. National Security Officials Opposing Donald Trump

Dozens of the nation’s most senior Republican national security officials, many of them former top aides or cabinet members for President George W. Bush, have signed a letter saying they will not vote for Mr. Trump, the Republican nominee.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/08/08/us/politics/national-security-letter-trump.html?_r=0

 

Ok here is an article that echos my thoughts. I think it is likely Trump isn't going to show up for all three debates.  He has to show if he wants to win the presidency but I just don't see how Clinton will not eat him for lunch.  So if he doesn't show it would mean he has basically checked out of the race. He will then turn his eye back to his financial empire, hopefully richer from the publicity.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/09/why-donald-trump-might-not-debate-hillary-clinton/

 

I think a debate is going to be hilarious. Imagine if the moderator asks him to elaborate on his Wall, a cornerstone of his policies. What does he feel about the environmental impacts the hundreds and thousands of miles of new roads that will need to be built in order to transport concrete to some very inhospitable places in the US.  What will happen to the endangered species habitats that exist along the path of the wall.

 

Or maybe he'll just say oh, that was just rhetoric, I don't really mean that I'll literally build a 2000 mile wall.

 

 

You can fool some of the people all the time....... (the rest is obvious)

 

 

[muscleman]

Just watched Trump's live talk at NAHB. Seems pretty calm and normal to me.

I would go with Trump.

[VersaillesinNY]

Interesting views from Howard Marks on the Presidential election:

 

Aug. 22 -- Howard Marks, co-founder of Oaktree Capital Group, discusses support of Donald Trump by billionaire investors and Trump's approach to debt and the nation's balance sheet.

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/video/marks-trumps-scary-idea-u-124644859.html

 

For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.

Stuart Chase

[wachtwoord]

I know, I know...Hillary sucks...and I agree!  But really, you guys are contemplating giving the keys to Trump? 

 

I would elect an actual turd over Hilary so yes, that includes Trump. Hilary fits my definition of true evil.

[randomep]

I know, I know...Hillary sucks...and I agree!  But really, you guys are contemplating giving the keys to Trump? 

 

I would elect an actual turd over Hilary so yes, that includes Trump. Hilary fits my definition of true evil.

 

Hilary is true evil? So you will be afraid of her like you are afraid of Hilter, Mao, or Stalin running your country? Suppose Hilary does win the election and it is a 90% certainty based on polls. What will happen?  Who will suffer, who will die? What will you do? Leave the country? (if you are American)

 

 

[TwoCitiesCapital]

I know, I know...Hillary sucks...and I agree!  But really, you guys are contemplating giving the keys to Trump? 

 

I would elect an actual turd over Hilary so yes, that includes Trump. Hilary fits my definition of true evil.

 

Hilary is true evil? Suppose Hilary does win the election and it is a 90% certainty based on polls. What will happen?  Who will suffer, who will die?

 

Probably no one as everybody who stood in her way will already be dead. #HillaryIsTheRealZodiacKiller

 

 

 

 

 

[randomep]

Just watched Trump's live talk at NAHB. Seems pretty calm and normal to me.

I would go with Trump.

 

If you hear Ted Bundy give a speech he would seem pretty normal and articulate also.

 

I learned (probably later than most) in life that people judge you by the times you lose your cool and show your ugly side than the times when you are calm and unstressed.