If American - which presidential candidate will you vote for?

[Cardboard]

"There is no denying the fact that the US has played a role in formenting Islamic extremism."

 

It is true but, at the same time we can't get too carried away with this blame oneself attitude.

 

It would be similar as saying that France and Germany are mostly responsible for the creation of the Nazis as a consequence of the Versailles treaty and are to be blamed for it.

 

Everyone has a choice as to how they are going to behave today and tomorrow. The past is the past and vengeance normally solves nothing.

 

Cardboard

 

 

[Cardboard]

Good to see that some people are still demonstrating intelligence and bravery to denounce this monster in this diversity at all costs world.

 

Remember the guy who only wanted to learn how to fly but, not land at a flight school? 2 + 2? Hello??? Or was it another case where people were afraid to report because they could have been called racist?

 

Cardboard

[Cardboard]

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/16/putin-ally-backs-donald-trump-for-president.html

 

"It was always Republicans when, in the old days, some of kind of bridges were constructed,"

 

Very intriguing and interesting statement: the Bush's, Reagan, Nixon.

 

Cardboard

[Peregrine]

Trump is an utterly despicable person. I find it appalling that some support him on "pragmatic" reasons.

[Mephistopheles]

Trump is an utterly despicable person. I find it appalling that some support him on "pragmatic" reasons.

 

Today is the 1 year anniversary of the Charleston, SC terror attack where Caucasian Extremist Dylann Roof killed 9 African Americans in a mass shooting. In response, Donald Trump has pledged to ban all white people entering the United States until we figure out what the hell is going on! When asked for a comment, Mr. Trump said "This only happened because we allowed Dylann Roof's great great grandparents to immigrate to the U.S. through Ellis Island. How pathetic!"

[Palantir]

"There is no denying the fact that the US has played a role in formenting Islamic extremism."

 

It is true but, at the same time we can't get too carried away with this blame oneself attitude.

 

It would be similar as saying that France and Germany are mostly responsible for the creation of the Nazis as a consequence of the Versailles treaty and are to be blamed for it.

 

Everyone has a choice as to how they are going to behave today and tomorrow. The past is the past and vengeance normally solves nothing.

 

Cardboard

 

This is a poor analogy. The creation of the Nazis was a reaction to the Versailles treaty. US Foreign policy has DIRECTLY caused the growth of Islamic extremism by using islamic extremists as a strategic and tactical tool. More importantly it continues to this day. My guess is that you just don't know the depth of this collaboration.

[shalab]

I am neither a 'pub' nor a 'dem' (both the parties have their share of idiots) but Nixon is not much of  a model for anything -

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_genocide

 

...

 

Nixon and China tried to suppress reports of genocide from East Pakistan.

 

...

 

In his book The Trial of Henry Kissinger, Christopher Hitchens elaborates on what he saw as the efforts of Kissinger to subvert the aspirations of independence on the part of the Bengalis.[154] Hitchens not only claims that the term genocide is appropriate to describe the results of the struggle, but also points to the efforts of Henry Kissinger in undermining others who condemned the then ongoing atrocities as being a genocide. He also wrote “Kissinger was responsible for the killing of thousands of people, including Sheik Mujibur Rahman”.[155]

 

 

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/16/putin-ally-backs-donald-trump-for-president.html

 

"It was always Republicans when, in the old days, some of kind of bridges were constructed,"

 

Very intriguing and interesting statement: the Bush's, Reagan, Nixon.

 

Cardboard

[adesigar]

I am neither a 'pub' nor a 'dem' (both the parties have their share of idiots) but Nixon is not much of  a model for anything -

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_genocide

 

...

 

Nixon and China tried to suppress reports of genocide from East Pakistan.

 

...

 

In his book The Trial of Henry Kissinger, Christopher Hitchens elaborates on what he saw as the efforts of Kissinger to subvert the aspirations of independence on the part of the Bengalis.[154] Hitchens not only claims that the term genocide is appropriate to describe the results of the struggle, but also points to the efforts of Henry Kissinger in undermining others who condemned the then ongoing atrocities as being a genocide. He also wrote “Kissinger was responsible for the killing of thousands of people, including Sheik Mujibur Rahman”.[155]

 

 

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/16/putin-ally-backs-donald-trump-for-president.html

 

"It was always Republicans when, in the old days, some of kind of bridges were constructed,"

 

Very intriguing and interesting statement: the Bush's, Reagan, Nixon.

 

Cardboard

 

They did a LOT more to help Pakistan during this

 

Links to documents of Nixon and Kissinger.

 

https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1969-76v11/d216

http://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e7/48542.htm

http://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e7/48542.htm

 

 

 

[doughishere]

Love him or hate him. This is hilarious.

 

 

Japanese Donald Trump Commercialトランプ2016

[rb]

I don't know if this is sinking in or not, but this is an election for the president of the United States. It is not supposed to be hilarious. It is not supposed to be fun. It is not supposed to be entertaining. It's not pop culture and it's not reality TV. It's drop dead serious stuff that affects a shitload of people's lives.

[DTEJD1997]

Trump is an utterly despicable person. I find it appalling that some support him on "pragmatic" reasons.

I will second this about Mrs. Clinton, and also add that she is likely a criminal to boot!

[Jurgis]

I don't know if this is sinking in or not, but this is an election for the president of the United States. It is not supposed to be hilarious. It is not supposed to be fun. It is not supposed to be entertaining. It's not pop culture and it's not reality TV. It's drop dead serious stuff that affects a shitload of people's lives.

 

Wait, this is not "The Bachelor" 2016 season?  ???

 

I have to change the channel asap.

[doughishere]

I don't know if this is sinking in or not, but this is an election for the president of the United States. It is not supposed to be hilarious. It is not supposed to be fun. It is not supposed to be entertaining. It's not pop culture and it's not reality TV. It's drop dead serious stuff that affects a shitload of people's lives.

 

I dont see this as any different than what they do on SNL. Its funny. Relax or youre gonna pop a arterie.

[rb]

I don't know if this is sinking in or not, but this is an election for the president of the United States. It is not supposed to be hilarious. It is not supposed to be fun. It is not supposed to be entertaining. It's not pop culture and it's not reality TV. It's drop dead serious stuff that affects a shitload of people's lives.

 

I dont see this as any different than what they do on SNL. Its funny. Relax or youre gonna pop a arterie.

I guess it's not really sinking in. SNL is a comedy show. This is the election for the president of the United States. And you have a quote in your signature that says "If you're capable of understanding the world you have a moral obligation to become rational."

 

By the way, the word you were looking for is artery.

[rb]

The very rich. Extremely rich! billionaire needs a 100k cash infusion by end of day.

 

http://www.thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/284004-trump-campaign-wants-100000-in-donations-by-end-of-day

[Cardboard]

"The very rich. Extremely rich! billionaire needs a 100k cash infusion by end of day."

 

Right. And how much of her own money or around $150 million, that was earned mostly illegally by giving very high priced speeches in return for favours from various really fat cats and countries, did the Clintons spend on this campaign so far?

 

By the way, all of this is about returning the pendulum to its center. However, since the milder solution of electing a center-right candidate in 2012 with Romney was not adopted, now the dose has to be stronger.

 

And if it does not pass this time around either, which is a strong possibility, then the next right candidate will have a slogan that will look like: "Save America Now!"

 

The country is barely showing positive GDP right now and debt is going up exponentially. This can't end well if it continues any longer. Something has to be done and it won't be from Hillary. So here is your morale obligation to act rationally and never let her back in the White House.

 

Cardboard

[Mephistopheles]

 

The country is barely showing positive GDP right now and debt is going up exponentially. This can't end well if it continues any longer.

 

 

Right, and starting an economic war with our biggest trading partners and threatening to default on our debt will help GDP skyrocket.

 

"The very rich. Extremely rich! billionaire needs a 100k cash infusion by end of day."

 

Right. And how much of her own money or around $150 million, that was earned mostly illegally by giving very high priced speeches in return for favours from various really fat cats and countries, did the Clintons spend on this campaign so far?

 

Except Hillary Clinton never braggadociously lied about "self funding" her campaign. Hillary Clinton never made it a central selling point of her campaign that she is the only "truly independent" one for that reason. Hillary Clinton never ridiculed and mocked other candidates for taking money from the Koch brothers, only to turn around and ask them for money herself. That's the difference.

 

And I don't know how much she contributed to her own campaign but I don't think you do either.

[Packer16]

I think most folks who are fearful of Trump do not understand how he uses his rhetoric.  He is using it as an initial negotiating position (knowing the result will end up somewhere away from his position) and starting point for action versus talk.  They also buy into the media's echo chamber and listen to what the media & Dems say about Trump versus looking at the man's actions.  If you look at Trump's actions you will see that many of the accusations against him are false the actions of a desperate party that has little else to run on.

 

For example, Trump is a racist.  What actions not rhetoric used a starting point for negotiations do you have to prove this?  He makes some statements that are negotiating positions to his opposition on the issues of illegal immigration and better border enforcement and better screening of folks from a region of the world where there are known terrorist who are trying to enter the US.  These statements will get action going on these issues versus the status quo.  Is there proof that Donald Trump discriminates against black, Mexicans or any other race in his business?  If there was you would certainly hear about it.  To be a good businessman and get things done you need to compromise and he has done that in business versus most pols who just talk about compromise.  Why would he change to be a racist as president if he is not that way in business or his personal life?

 

What about Hillary?  I think she more of a demagogue than Trump in that the main rationale she gives to vote for her is she is a woman, what a joke.  Talk about a sexist attitude.  What about her cold and heartless attitude to those in Coal country?  Her program (supposedly her specialty) is provide them clean energy job?  With trillions the government spends & this is the base she can come up with?  Could you not make a case that she is discriminating against those country folk?  I think the biggest type of acceptable -ism is elitism of city folk for county folk and guess who has largest block of anti-elitist voters (Mr. Trump). 

 

Packer

 

[onyx1]

For example, Trump is a racist.  What actions not rhetoric used a starting point for negotiations do you have to prove this?  He makes some statements that are negotiating positions to his opposition on the issues of illegal immigration and better border enforcement and better screening of folks from a region of the world where there are known terrorist who are trying to enter the US.  These statements will get action going on these issues versus the status quo.  Is there proof that Donald Trump discriminates against black, Mexicans or any other race in his business?  If there was you would certainly hear about it.  To be a good businessman and get things done you need to compromise and he has done that in business versus most pols who just talk about compromise.  Why would he change to be a racist as president if he is not that way in business or his personal life?

 

 

Trump was in the public spotlight for 5 decades and was never labeled a racist.  Then he ran against the Democrats.

[Cardboard]

"Right, and starting an economic war with our biggest trading partners and threatening to default on our debt will help GDP skyrocket."

 

Repatriating trillions of dollars trapped overseas, a simpler tax code, fairer trade deals, de-regulation, applying existing laws (immigration and all others),.... it sounds like a recipe for massive GDP growth to me.

 

There should be about 44% of Americans who will be independent voters come November. I hope that they will make the right choice to improve their own life and not be influenced by the media and useless arguments such as someone wanting to be the first women president.

 

Cardboard

 

[shalab]

Hi cardboard and packer - one thing about Trump I find interesting is that he doesn't really seem to have a position on anything - everything is up for negotiation or change so long as it benefits Trump. Given this, I am interested in your view on these stories and also how can anyone trust anything Trump says?

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/21/us/politics/donald-trump-roy-cohn.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/trump-university-students-school-scam-article-1.2350129

 

 

[vox]

I think most folks who are fearful of Trump do not understand how he uses his rhetoric.  He is using it as an initial negotiating position (knowing the result will end up somewhere away from his position) and starting point for action versus talk.  They also buy into the media's echo chamber and listen to what the media & Dems say about Trump versus looking at the man's actions.  If you look at Trump's actions you will see that many of the accusations against him are false the actions of a desperate party that has little else to run on.

 

If you discount Trump's rhetoric and policy positions because you're giving him the benefit of the doubt that he is approaching the issue from a negotiating position, and given that he has no previous political record, what is left for someone to judge him by? The success of his business ventures? He has steadfastly refused to release his tax returns or disclose his financial information. The team of advisers he's assembled? His energy adviser believes that the earth is cooling, not warming (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-energy-idUSKCN0Y41ZP). His foreign policy advisers includes a guy who prominently cites his attendance at a model United Nations conference as a credential on his Linkedin page (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/donald-trump-foreign-policy-advisers-221058).

 

Also, Donald Trump's real estate company has been sued by the Justice Department for racial discrimination against black people looking to rent apartments in 1973 and 1978 (http://www.salon.com/2011/04/28/donald_trump_discrimination_suit/), his Trump Plaza Casino was fined by the New Jersey Casino Control Commissions in 1992 for removing African American card dealers (http://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/10/19/Trump-Plaza-loses-appeal-of-discrimination-penalty/1911719467200/), and he was sued in 1996 for reneging on a promise to hire mostly minority workers for a riverboat casino on Lake Michigan (http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/money/trump-hit-race-suit-blacks-don-dealt-casino-jobs-article-1.726389).

[Packer16]

As to suits many can sue but it sounds like only one of the three suits resulted in a fine.  Also cherry picking advisors and going after there weaknesses is pretty weak also.  I have no doubt Hillary has advisors who similarly dubious backgrounds.  She herself, not one of her advisors, is being investigated over the classified e-mails.  One real test is who has created more jobs & wealth.  Trump has done this in spades.  If it was up to me I would not have chosen Trump I voted for Kasich but given the choice between Clinton & Trump, I would take Trump hands down.  The more fear mongering the Dems the more desperate they appear.

 

The other question you need to ask yourself do you want the status quo or do you want the government to provide a service and get something done.  Who do you think would get the most deals done, the guy who does it for a living or the gal whose worked in the government and uses identity politics to get elected?  We have tried the later and the only time he could get things done was when his party controlled Congress.  As to trusting what Trump vs. what Clinton says I think you can trust neither.  So, in my mind it is not a absolute standard that I measure Trump against (he would be very lacking & I chose Kasich over him in that contest) but a relative one against Clinton.   

 

Packer

 

[Mephistopheles]

If you look at Trump's actions you will see that many of the accusations against him are false the actions of a desperate party that has little else to run on.

 

For example, Trump is a racist.  What actions not rhetoric used a starting point for negotiations do you have to prove this? 

 

I don't think Trump is racist. I don't even think he's a Conservative. He's a former Democrat and is on the record saying and supporting very liberal policies over the years. Clearly the things he's said for this past year have been a brilliant move on his part to win the GOP ticket.

 

However, the hateful, fear mongering things that come out of his mouth have had consequences and not just at his rallies. For instance, violence against Muslims is at its highest since 9/11. A political strategy of inciting and at times encouraging hatred shows a severe lack of judgment and responsibility.

 

This is not unlike what Bernie Sanders has done by demonizing the entire financial services industry.

[Packer16]

How many hate mongering things are coming out of his mouth versus a liberals press' view that what he says has "code words" and they will interpret these words for you.  This PC reached its climax when Clinton stated that make America great again was code for taking people's rights away.  From what I see there is more anti-Trump demonstrations creating violence than pro-Trump supporters.  I hold the press and progressive groups as much if not more responsible for the violence than pro-Trump groups.  Trump is the first politician since Reagan to stand-up to the Progressive mafia & they do not like it.

 

Packer