IT folks - switching career to finance

[alertmeipp]

I saw that many of you are in either software development or engineering fields.... have you ever considering to get a job in  finance area?

 

If not, why not?

If yes, what're the steps you are taking?

 

For those that are in the finance field, what does it take to get a 6 digits job in finance (in Canada)?

[writser]

I graduated in CS and ended up as a trader at a prop trading house (though you probably are thinking about asset management?). I'd say the first step is a job interview. ;) I don't know the competitive landscape in Canada though. You might want to consider talking with a recruitment firm - the good ones usually have a couple of intake meetings where they try to gauge you and do a few suggestions regarding jobs you might like. No clue if it also works that way after having worked for 10 years in IT. What job are you looking for? What makes you think you are particularly qualified?

[alertmeipp]

Frankly, I don't know what in particular I am looking for. I just feel that in IT (Software Development) after 10 year or so, a few more year of experience won't get you much more. And the technology is changing so quick.

 

So how do you like be a trader? And why do you take CS at the first place but not finance?

 

 

[Guest valueInv]

Frankly, I don't know what in particular I am looking for. I just feel that in IT (Software Development) after 10 year or so, a few more year of experience won't get you much more. And the technology is changing so quick.

 

So how do you like be a trader? And why do you take CS at the first place but not finance?

 

You have a number of options in the technology world itself - product management, principal engineers, sales engineers, etc.

[writser]

I studied CS because I think it is interesting. I highly recommend studying something you enjoy. If you really want a job and you are suited for it, you can get there regardless of your specific background. So you might as well study something you like instead (though this might be considered a bit of a 'European' attitude here). Something tells me you don't have much job experience - why are you looking at your possible salary in ten years? A shitload of things can happen in a decade. Especially in IT because, as you pointed out, technologies are changing quickly. Which is great, keeps it from getting boring and generates lots of opportunities.

 

Don't let all the wealthy people present here influence your job choice.

[mikazo]

I saw that many of you are in either software development or engineering fields.... have you ever considering to get a job in  finance area?

 

If not, why not?

If yes, what're the steps you are taking?

 

For those that are in the finance field, what does it take to get a 6 digits job in finance (in Canada)?

 

I have a degree in computer science and started software development in 2009. I wouldn't consider a switch to finance. Software development is my passion, and finance is just an interesting side-hobby for me.

 

I wouldn't want to do asset management, as I'm not confident enough in my decisions to manage other people's money. If I end up being wrong about something, I have only myself to hurt. Also, I can't picture a job in asset management making the days fly by like my software development job does.

 

I wouldn't want to do software development for high-frequency trading, as I've heard that that can get very stressful, and I don't think it really makes much of a positive contribution to humanity anyway.

 

As for the salary, you can make a pretty decent living from being a software developer. Tech companies seem to always be hiring more developers lately, so I have the option of changing jobs within my field, if I so choose. It's not really about the money for me anyway, it's about doing what I love. I'm only 5 years in and I feel like I've only just scratched the surface on the amount of knowledge and experience there is to be gained. I look forward to learning and improving over my entire software development career. The industry is always evolving, and that's what makes it exciting!

[no_free_lunch]

Frankly, I don't know what in particular I am looking for. I just feel that in IT (Software Development) after 10 year or so, a few more year of experience won't get you much more. And the technology is changing so quick.

 

So how do you like be a trader? And why do you take CS at the first place but not finance?

 

I am not sure of what area in finance you are talking about but I think you are still going to be working hard.  Yes, you don't have to keep up with technology but then you have to spend a lot of time networking.

 

You can make a lot of money with software, 6-figures with a salary job is nothing special.  If you get into niche consulting $100/hr is no big deal and I have heard of much higher. 

[mcliu]

I heard software engineers are in huge demand, especially in California and that excellent engineers can get paid up to 7 figures when you include stock options and other perks..? Can someone confirm?

 

For those that are in the finance field, what does it take to get a 6 digits job in finance (in Canada)?

 

You start with 6 figures (salary + bonus). However, it's not a lot on an hourly basis..

[oddballstocks]

You can make a lot of money with software, 6-figures with a salary job is nothing special.  If you get into niche consulting $100/hr is no big deal and I have heard of much higher.

 

That's a very low hourly figure from my experience.  I'd say $150-200 is common for a software engineer, upwards of $300/hr if you have specialized knowledge.

 

I considered switching back in 2006/2007.  I did the whole networking thing with people in finance, learned I'd be taking a 50-70% pay cut to make a switch and figured I'd stick it out.  I changed job roles and moved into something I liked somewhat better.

 

Eventually I decided to combine interests and launched CompleteBankData.com a fusion of what I had learned working with technology along with my experience and interest in finance and investing.  Sometimes you need to create your own path..

[no_free_lunch]

Oddballstocks, I think it just depends on the skill set and seniority you are selling.  Where I am, a regular software developer using a common language with say 5 years under their belt would have a hard time getting much past $60-75/hr for a multi-month contract.  As I write this I am thinking that actually sounds quite high.  If you are specialized in a niche area, depending on a ton of factors it could be somewhere between $100-300, it just really depends on how specialized you are and how much competition there is in that niche.  As you get more specialized you get the higher wage but you are more likely to have to travel to find the work.

[turar]

There are websites with pay information for all kinds of professions, and $150-200/hr for software engineers, (which is what, about $300-400K/year?) is not common at all. Silicon Valley usually has the highest paid software engineers, and the going rate for a mid-to-senior level engineer is about $150K base, from what I understand. Midwest, a lot less, probably 100K or so.

[no_free_lunch]

Turar,

 

Those are salary rates.  Consulting rates are usually considerably higher since there are no benefits or job security.

 

You are right though, as a software engineer you probably can't make the really high consulting rates.  The only time I personally have seen those numbers is for a real niche.  From my experiences you need to be one of a small group of people with a ton of experience maintaining some massive and incredibly boring business app.  You are getting paid not for your programming skills at all but for the years of knowledge with this one product that just about nobody else has. 

[turar]

Oh, OK. Even so, consulting rates are usually only about 30% or so higher than salaried rates, from my understanding. So $100/hr is probably a "good" consulting rate for the majority of software engineers. I'm talking about an independent person doing consulting. If you're a part of a "brand-name" consulting shop, you can get billed at a higher rate, but you're not getting that rate into your pocket.

[muscleman]

Software is hot. Now someone with 2-4 years of good experience can make 200k in Seattle (not Microsoft though), and 250-300k in Bay Area.

Are New York financial guys making this number, living expense adjusted? Even if he can, what crazy hours has he to work each week to get there? It will certainly be more than 40 hours a week that a typical software engineer spend.

I did consider switching to financials a few years ago, but no one wanted me. Now I think it is fine that I just invest my own 401k and my parent's retirement money, and just keep doing software for a few more years. If I can someday succeed in investing, I will open my own HF shop. :P

[turar]

I must be out of sync with the latest rates then. Muscleman, where can I check up on these opportunities in Seattle or Bay Area? I have a number of friends across the West Coast in software dev, they are usually quoting much lower rates, per my post above.

[infinitee00]

Oddball, I don't know which companies you are talking about. That seems like a really high number.

 

Even though I don't work in that industry, I have tons of friends/acquaintances who work in IT ranging from Google/Microsoft/Oracle/IBM to smaller companies and in variety of roles ranging from VP/Director to guys with 3yrs of experience. My wife also works in IT. Very few of them earn $150-200/hr ( translates to ~300K-400K/yr). $300/hr or 600K/yr is unheard of unless you are talking of a exec VP in a moderate/large company (I have a friend who is a VP of Tech in a $1B company (by revenues) and his salary is most likely in the $300K-400K/yr range as he is in the 33% tax bracket). Btw, I am talking about full-time/exempt employees and not independent consultants/contractors ( who may earn a lot more).

 

AFAIK, in Washington/California, the average pay for software engineers with 8-12 years of experience in majority of domains is around 120-150K/yr (+profit sharing, if you are lucky) .Lower, if the company is small and maybe higher if you have 15-20 yrs of experience ( but then you may at a higher risk of being replaced). If you are in a niche area with little competition and you are really good, you may be lucky to get $200K+/yr, but that is a small % of people.

[Guest valueInv]

Take a look at Glassdoor, that'll give you an idea of what people are making.

 

Most engineers make something in the $150k range.

[infinitee00]

Software is hot. Now someone with 2-4 years of good experience can make 200k in Seattle (not Microsoft though), and 250-300k in Bay Area.

 

Really ?!! My friends in Seattle and Bay area with 10+yrs of experience must be severely underpaid then :-). What positions and in what domain/area are they working on? Are you including stock options? This seems much higher than what I have been told, so I am genuinely curious. Can you please provide a link to your data source ?

[west]

Software is hot. Now someone with 2-4 years of good experience can make 200k in Seattle (not Microsoft though), and 250-300k in Bay Area.

 

Yeaaaah... Gotta call bullshit on this.  SF based (prior) software guy here.  I have a few friends who make ~$140k at startups right now.  They're top notch folks tho.  And... I think that salary's more due to the startup bubble that's going on right now, and the lack of supply of software guys more than anything else.  People I know at Google and other large corps in the area aren't doing that well, base.

 

I do know a few people who are on paper millionaires due to recent IPOs/takeovers.  But that's more luck (and good negotiation with their VCs) more than anything else.  That's not bank-on-it salary.

[SpecOps]

I don't know about in Canada but in the UK pay and conditions in the finance sector have taken a real dive since 2008. I know a few people that work for banks as traders and their bonuses are only something like 10% of what they once where.

 

The pay isn't that good either considering the hours they work.

 

Also bear in mind the kind of work you will be doing as a trader, it is all about short term performance, I dont think the usual value investing philosophy works in most financial institutions as it usually comes with volatility in results.

[writser]

I don't know about in Canada but in the UK pay and conditions in the finance sector have taken a real dive since 2008. I know a few people that work for banks as traders and their bonuses are only something like 10% of what they once where.

 

The pay isn't that good either considering the hours they work.

 

Then either they're working at the wrong place or they aren't very good. I don't know if it's a good thing or not but all big financials are still highly profitable and have found ways to sidestep bonus caps (for example: RBS, Goldman or Barclays). If you're good and work hard you still earn a shitload. Not to mention that if you work for a hedge fund, prop firm or whatever the bonus caps don't even apply to you.

 

Due to the public backlash after the crisis both banks, bankers (and politicians!) are very keen to show everybody that they are slashing bonuses but the system just doesn't work that way. If a financial firm finds a smart way to sidestep the bonus cap they have a huge edge on the playing field, so everybody is trying to do so.

 

Also bear in mind the kind of work you will be doing as a trader, it is all about short term performance, I dont think the usual value investing philosophy works in most financial institutions as it usually comes with volatility in results.

 

That's true.

[oddballstocks]

Oddball, I don't know which companies you are talking about. That seems like a really high number.

 

Even though I don't work in that industry, I have tons of friends/acquaintances who work in IT ranging from Google/Microsoft/Oracle/IBM to smaller companies and in variety of roles ranging from VP/Director to guys with 3yrs of experience. My wife also works in IT. Very few of them earn $150-200/hr ( translates to ~300K-400K/yr). $300/hr or 600K/yr is unheard of unless you are talking of a exec VP in a moderate/large company (I have a friend who is a VP of Tech in a $1B company (by revenues) and his salary is most likely in the $300K-400K/yr range as he is in the 33% tax bracket). Btw, I am talking about full-time/exempt employees and not independent consultants/contractors ( who may earn a lot more).

 

AFAIK, in Washington/California, the average pay for software engineers with 8-12 years of experience in majority of domains is around 120-150K/yr (+profit sharing, if you are lucky) .Lower, if the company is small and maybe higher if you have 15-20 yrs of experience ( but then you may at a higher risk of being replaced). If you are in a niche area with little competition and you are really good, you may be lucky to get $200K+/yr, but that is a small % of people.

 

As someone else stated these are consulting rates, if you're doing this on your own you get that entire rate, otherwise it's a smaller chunk.  The numbers I've quoted aren't crazy, and they aren't niche either.  I'm in a medium market and the numbers are well supported.  This is for enterprise software development.  Think things like core systems for banks, or retail companies.  In regards to the high billable rates yes they were for a 'brand' name company, on a niche project (they had an MD on the project to give advice).  Probably eight years or so ago I billed a two day security project at $500/hr, $8k for two days worth of work.  I had about two years worth of experience at the time, I was very green, but I knew more than the client.

 

In terms of what someone with 2-4 years of experience might receive in pay, maybe $80-120k, just depends on the region and their experience and the size of the company.

 

Try to get a job working for a Silicon Valley company remote.  A guy a co-worker mentors did this.  He lives in the sticks of Ohio, got a job with about four years of experience at a SV company, works remotely, they offered him $120k plus benefits/stock etc.  The guy has to fly out to California once every other month.  Where he lives I'd say the average wage is around $30k or so, at $120k he's living like a king. 

 

Another thought, I believe you can make this money in finance, but the hours are worse.  If software developers routinely had to work 60-80 hours a week they'd find another job.  Why work a ton of extra hours when you can hop jobs and get the same pay working 40 hours?

[infinitee00]

 

As someone else stated these are consulting rates, if you're doing this on your own you get that entire rate, otherwise it's a smaller chunk. 

 

OK, that makes sense. I have heard consultants getting crazy rates too.  A consultant at the company my wife works, worked for $200/hr, but that was only for a month. A few years ago, BI/Data warehousing consultants were getting crazy pay for short term projects. I think competition in those areas has lowered the rates somewhat.

[oddballstocks]

 

As someone else stated these are consulting rates, if you're doing this on your own you get that entire rate, otherwise it's a smaller chunk. 

 

OK, that makes sense. I have heard consultants getting crazy rates too.  A consultant at the company my wife works, worked for $200/hr, but that was only for a month. A few years ago, BI/Data warehousing consultants were getting crazy pay for short term projects. I think competition in those areas has lowered the rates somewhat.

 

Yes, BI/Data warehousing was one of the niches I was originally thinking about.  That area was really hot a few years back.  The problem with niche consulting like that is this.  Like you said many projects are short term, it's possible to hop between projects, but you need someone to sell you.  So part of your hourly now goes to a sales person.  What happens then is you end up at a client and the client wants to keep the person, they make an outsized offer, and the consultant agrees to settle down and take the salary.

[eclecticvalue]

Sorry if i jack this thread in advance. I was thinking of making a career change into web design/ software development. I was wondering if its a good idea.