John Hjorth

Please do not come down too hard on yourself, Sharad, Personally, I'm happy just to see you around here on CoBF again.

Cigarbutt, Thank you for your contributions to this topic over time. As an almost total ignorant person in this scientific space it's to me a pleasure and a privilege to read your stuff on the matter at hand. Perhaps my personal opinion about the Swedish Corona approach did shine through in my last post, however I tried to phrase it as carefully as I could, taking my own ignorance into consideration. Today I took the time to actually read the Danish Doctor's Pledge, also ending reading about the WMA Declaration of Geneva, the Hippocratic Corpus & the Hippocratic Oath. Based only on common sense - and with my personal ignorance as basis - I was surprised to see, that just by reading the Danish Doctors Pledge literally and straight out, the application of the Swedish Corona strategy here in Denmark would not be in non-compliance with the Danish Doctors Pledge. [The Danish Doctors Pledge does not mention potential patients, only "patients" [, which I understand as "actual patients"]. - - - o 0 o - - - So based on my limited understanding of World Wide ethics among health care professionals I dare ask for some comments and considerations from you - and certainly comments and considerations from the other doctors who have been active in the discussions in this topic are most welcome - on the ethical dimensions of the Swedish Corona strategy. Perhaps needless to post it, but as a layman, I consider it problematic, ref. "Do not do any harm." I sincerely hope this post does not appear as rubbish among the doctors here on CoBF.

Jyllandsposten [June 3rd 2020] : Sweden's state epidemiologist: We should have done more against corona. [original source : Ritzau, ref. lower part of the article.] - - - o 0 o - - - Personally, I'm not sure about what to think about this. Is this just rear mirror wiewing [, that is basically useless, unless used for swift changes of prior decisions made as the situation elvolves over time], or is this a public admittal that the Swedish Corona approach has failed [, where the only logical action for Mr. Tegnell - at least to me - would be to turn in his resignation] ?

Yes samwise, The daily WHO sit reports are to me heartbreaking reads [even taking into consideration that they are the aggregations/consolidations/sums of local reports, of which some may be deemed unreliable]. To me, they read like we haven't seen the worst yet globally.

Personally, I hear you, Cevian, Also, personally, I'm [also] puzzled by this, & need to go back to listen to the conference call.

jschembs, alwaysdrawing & meiroy, If you read some of the latest pages in this topic with focus on "How did USA end up in this actual situation?" - [related to the situation about the Corona virus in the USA] - based on different political orientations, it will actually provide value to you. -There is actually a common denominator & agreement, which is an underlying shared general & deep frustration in the various posts about the situation [, which to me is somehow comforting].

cwericb, I personally consider your post - generally & on overall basis - in line with what Vinod has posted in [as far as I remember] this topic not so long ago. The real question - at least to me - is : Who has the burden on their shoulders of the responsibility to actually act on the situation, if the incumbent POTUS - for reasons of mental illness is not fit & proper? -What does i.e. the US Constitution [or other legislation] say? [Personally, I don't know.]

Thank you for a hilarious post, ERICOPOLY, Somehow I think of it as token of : 1. You live in a representative democracy [, at least somehow], combined with : 2. Ignorance & stupidity is still alive & kicking everywhere around the world.

JAMA Network [May 7th 2020] : Clinical Characteristics and Results of Semen Tests Among Men With Coronavirus Disease 2019. Some cherry picking in the Discussion section : I wonder what the doctors among us here on CoBF get out of this. Very small sample size though [which I don't even know if matters here]. It reads scary to me as a layman.

Thank you for the explanations & elaborations, Spekulatius & Cigarbutt.

Thank you for elaborating, Spekulatius, What does that imply in this particular context?

Pete, I really hope to see Spekulatius [and perhaps also other German [or with German roots, and thereby insights] CoBF members] to chime in on this later today, or later, because I don't know. - - - o 0 o - - - Meanwhile, I'm taking the [usual] escape route [mentally] to the garden - I have a ton of self seeded & -grown Lavandula Angustifolia under our now six year old Taxus Baccata front hedge, that I'm in the process of sweeping and planting other places in the garden.

Germany : Bundesverfassungsgericht - Judgment of May 5th 2020 : ECB decisions on the Public Sector Purchase Programme exceed EU competences : https://www.bundesverfassungsgericht.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/EN/2020/bvg20-032.html. What? [ 0_0 ] - This has potential for absolute havoc written all over it.

Novo Nordisk A/S continues cheewing itself.

The flaw with that thinking is that we're learning and working on things that could be here before the vaccine, and the timeline for the vaccine is unknown (could be sooner than we think too), and there's limited healthcare capacity. So if in 2-3 months we have some more therapies/drugs and best practices (proning?) to helps save people who get sick, it's better to be infected later rather than sooner and to keep the curve flat rather than have a high peak early on. Here is an example of what Liberty is talking about, related to the discussion in this topic about what's going on in the Scandinavian countries : Fyens.dk [April 29th 2020] : Ulla has found the solution: Smart "Conversation box" makes it possible to visit family on nursing home. TV2.dk [April 29th 2020] : Daugther invents "Conversation Box" so she can speak with her mother [inside, John] at nursing home. This is a story of a civil engineer called Ulla employed at Novo Nordisk A/S, where she [obviously] is working with work environment on the Novo Nordisk factories, likely with speciality in keeping the air clean, and she has been thinking about how to do something about what everybody is talking about, while nobody trying to do something about it. So she just did it, based on that "... this is not rocket science". - - - o 0 o - - - Decomposition, analysis & solution of a tiny part of an extremely complex issue at hand in totality, and taking a focused stab at that tiny part. Every tiny contribution helps over time, if solutions are shared with the world. - - - o 0 o - - - Anecdotal : This story is from the nursing home here in Odense where my dad lives.

[Omitting the embedded posts by Liberty, minten & clutch, but respectfully not ignoring them, - just to avoid dense quoting.] frank, It's actually true - and very striking : Public Health Agency of Sweden (Folkhälsomyndigheten) - Confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Sweden (Antal fall av covid-19 i Sverige). Translation help : Tidsserie: Sjukdomsfall per dag -> Time series : Confirmed cases per day, Sjukdomsfall per åldersgrupp -> Confirmed cases per age group, & Avlitna per åldersgrupp -> Deaths per age group [in the context here : COVID-19 related].

Pure & utterly nonsence to me.

So we're missing out on quite some : [ ; - ) ]

LC, please keep them coming! [ : - D ]

Yeah, models aren't perfect, but I don't really see an alternative. Is there one? Make decisions based on the most pertinent observations? E.g., the fact that COVID-19 has significantly higher death rates in older people. In general, scientists should inform decision-makers primarily based on observations/experiments, not prediction models. Easy to say, when the matter at hand is basically unknown from the beginning of the situation.

One of our neighbors, last night got delivered 3 tonnes [in two huge plastic bags] of enriched soil. Her garden area is about 400 m2. There is always interesting scenarios to watch how they evolve.

Thank you for sharing, Doc, Pretty striking read [at least to me].

I think the facts are, that major mistakes were made in the early innings in just about every country around the world. The mistakes may vary from country to country. I just hope that when we are finally done with SARS-CoV-2, that there will be a World-Wide conclusion, to avoid that this - to the best of all nations - won't happen again.

- - - o 0 o - - - Why is Mr. Tilson even worth the time talking about? I think most people are here cos of quarantine and need a good laugh. That's to me certainly OK, randomep.

Wikipedia : Whitney Tilson. - - - o 0 o - - - Why is Mr. Tilson even worth the time talking about?