US is a poor country

[mcliu]

Probably too soon for AI. It's only been out for 2 years, not even at the dial-up internet equivalent stage yet.

 

I think the current divergence in wealth is more likely from globalization.

 

The top performers have a larger market while the bottom performers to compete against a far larger labour pool.

[Eldad]

43 minutes ago, mcliu said:

Probably too soon for AI. It's only been out for 2 years, not even at the dial-up internet equivalent stage yet.

 

I think the current divergence in wealth is more likely from globalization.

 

The top performers have a larger market while the bottom performers to compete against a far larger labour pool.

Plus a stock market that never goes down and an economy that never has a recession. Recessions cull the stupid and overly risk taking rich while at the same time provide opportunities for those that are wise and frugal from below to move up. You can’t have real capitalism without recessions. 

[LC]

Fair points and I appreciate the pushback! 

[Castanza]

18 hours ago, thepupil said:

 

yes, this is one potential explanation....that most people are exercising their freedoms and choosing  to be poor. That would generally reflect better on the US than the other explanation which that the bottom 1/2 or whatever can't accumulate wealth due to lack of opportunity or because we need to build more houses or whatever. definitely think americans consumer-y ways are part of it (my own wealth accumulation is certainly slowed by my lavish expenditures), but not sure if it's the only reason. 

 

 

Certainly not the only reason but there are some areas to improve like teaching financial literacy in school. But that too has limitation. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the poverty level in the US 10% correlates with below average IQ <85 15%. I think as a society we have also made luxuries necessities. I’ve worked quite a few jobs in my life that caused me to brush shoulders with the lower income class. A lot smoked 1 pack a day ($8) drank a case of bud a week $18, 1-2 lotto tickets a week. Over 30 years that ~$350 a month blown on addictions could net them like 500k at market returns. That would secure a lot of retirements. 

 

Bankrate did a study on this and found that people earning 30k/below in the US spend 30% of their income on tobacco, alcohol and lottery tickets annually. 
 

The US is the land of opportunity for good and bad choices. The WHY behind those choices is not an easy fix. Financial literacy is certainly not the only piece of the puzzle as I've never met someone who smokes and drinks a lot that is unaware of the health risks. I've never met a lotto player who doesn't understand the odds. Probably more of a coping mechanism that ultimately puts them in a death spiral of financial burden. In many ways the poor class is far more financially prudent than those with higher income and disposable cash. More likely to fix instead of replace, less likely to splurge, utilize more resources, etc. But the weight decisions carry when you have less is much more than when you have more. Tough world.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Castanza

[Sinbius]

15 hours ago, Red Lion said:

 

The facts are pretty tenuous for your sexist joke. Factoring in for single parent households, I suspect there's more men on these means/asset tested programs, but it's a moot point. 

 

The public benefits trap applies to men and women. There are plenty of men and women in the USA that can't fund a savings account or try to get a 20% raise because the benefits cliff is insurmountable without a very large one time increase in income (to replace subsidies). People do dig out through education (which is typically how one gets a very large one time increase in income), and there are actually pretty generous means tested subsidies for education as well. 

Out of the 35.9% of American adults who do not want a job, women make up 59.2% of that group.

 

These statistics are published by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS)

[DooDiligence]

3 hours ago, Sinbius said:

Out of the 35.9% of American adults who do not want a job, women make up 59.2% of that group.

 

These statistics are published by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS)

 

Imagine that. Get stuck with one or two kids and let life beat down your motivation.

 

I'm known to take pot shots at American society but this thread was a troll from the beginning.

[cwericb]

10 hours ago, Castanza said:

Certainly not the only reason but there are some areas to improve like teaching financial literacy in school. But that too has limitation. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the poverty level in the US 10% correlates with below average IQ <85 15%. I think as a society we have also made luxuries necessities. I’ve worked quite a few jobs in my life that caused me to brush shoulders with the lower income class. A lot smoked 1 pack a day ($8) drank a case of bud a week $18, 1-2 lotto tickets a week. Over 30 years that ~$350 a month blown on addictions could net them like 500k at market returns. That would secure a lot of retirements. 

 

Bankrate did a study on this and found that people earning 30k/below in the US spend 30% of their income on tobacco, alcohol and lottery tickets annually. 
 

The US is the land of opportunity for good and bad choices. The WHY behind those choices is not an easy fix. Financial literacy is certainly not the only piece of the puzzle as I've never met someone who smokes and drinks a lot that is unaware of the health risks. I've never met a lotto player who doesn't understand the odds. Probably more of a coping mechanism that ultimately puts them in a death spiral of financial burden. In many ways the poor class is far more financially prudent than those with higher income and disposable cash. More likely to fix instead of replace, less likely to splurge, utilize more resources, etc. But the weight decisions carry when you have less is much more than when you have more. Tough world.

 

 

I absolutely agree with this, however you missed one very important, but, to a certain extent controllable expense. Interest payments.

 

Many, many years ago, being a cheap bugger, I made it a personal policy to do everything in my power to avoid incurring interest charges. Bought my vehicles (often clunkers) according to my cash on hand rather than to my credit access limits and paid off my mortgage as soon as possible. I use my Visa for nearly all expenses, but pay the full balance every month and never pay interest on it - free credit.

 

As one who worked in various aspects of the credit industry for many years, I was appalled at how many people paid so much of their paychecks on interest. And in many cases these were well educated people with good paying jobs who seemed oblivious to the amount of money they spent in interest, not just on their mortgage and car loans, but primarily on their credit cards at sky high interest rates.

 

More than once I had people tell me they were financially in great shape, all their credit cards were paid up to date. Well now yes, they were paid up to date, but they were making the minimum payment every month and these poor people thought that they were being responsible while in reality they were simply on the road to bankruptcy. 

 

Here, credit card statements are required to contain a line stating how long it will take to pay off your balance if you make the minimum monthly payment. My last Visa statement was for $3,800 and contained the statement "If you make the minimum payment it will take 31 years and 11 months to pay out your account.'  Thirty two years to pay out $3,800! Given my advanced age, they are quite optimistic. 

 

 

 

31 years and 11 months

[Sinbius]

1 hour ago, DooDiligence said:

 

Imagine that. Get stuck with one or two kids and let life beat down your motivation.

 

...

 

I agree they are poor victims of society and world cruelty...they should be safeguarded more...

Thx God US has chosen a president that know how to treat women and will fix it...

Edited 30 minutes ago by Sinbius