China

[Sweet]

8 minutes ago, Luca said:

China wont have "socialism" like mao zedong did it, it will be a hyper capitalistic market still BUT with regular regulation and intervention that fine tunes growth for all. I think we just have to see what the CCP can achieve this decade but the data points to me look still good, despite temporary headwinds and of course as every human: some mistakes will come too. 

Growth for all, really?  Inequality in China is large.  In America the poorest are are probably wealthier than the average Chinese.  
 

You really do have a soft spot for the CCP.  Why should anyone like Xi deserve power for as long he wants?

[Luca]

15 minutes ago, UK said:

 

I agree with you on Tencent/Prosus. But I disagree with "cut off from china like with russia is unimaginable lets be serious". Maybe it is just my imagination, but especially after this whole "unlimited friendship" situation, I can imagine even much worse things than cut off. And I am just afraid to play Russian roulette here, especially with some meaningfull alocation. I tried it in 2021, but after war in Ukraine and Xi not returning to normal, changed my mind.

Sleeping well is important! 

[cubsfan]

38 minutes ago, Luca said:

China wont have "socialism" like mao zedong did it, it will be a hyper capitalistic market still BUT with regular regulation and intervention that fine tunes growth for all. I think we just have to see what the CCP can achieve this decade but the data points to me look still good, despite temporary headwinds and of course as every human: some mistakes will come too. 

Hey - it’s not that China has not been an economic miracle, because it has.

 

The issues have to do with COVID, Taiwan and dominance of South Asian countries. That’s all.

 

Will China continue to behave like Russia??

 

On that question, the jury is clearly out.

Edited August 17, 2023 by cubsfan

[Parsad]

1 hour ago, cubsfan said:

I actually agree with you @Luca!!

 

But you absolutely have the WRONG premise. Middle class wages are shrinking BECAUSE the USA is move more toward socialism and farther from capitalism!

 

Government interferes in all aspects of Americans lives- “government will take care of everything, don’t you worry “

 

That’s why America is failing.

 

America is failing?!  Where exactly is America failing?  

 

Do you live better than your parents did?  Are your children living better than you did?  

 

The largest companies in the world are predominantly U.S.  The USD is still the veto currency for security.  US culture remains dominant globally.  US educational institutions remain at the top of the heap.  US research into healthcare, robotics, AI, pharmaceuticals, infrastructure, etc...all are 1, 2 or 3 globally.

 

Where exactly is America failing?  How is your life worse today than 20-30 years ago?  I keep asking my conservative friends these questions and they have no answers.

 

Uh, we pay more in taxes!  Really, you pay more in taxes than your father did?  Your personal corporation pays more in taxes than corporations 20-30 years ago? 

 

Uh, healthcare is failing us!  Aren't most Americans living longer than previous generations?

 

Uh, radical left-wing politics is running rampant!  Yes, left-wing radicals are more rampant than radicals were in the 1970's?

 

Uh, we're getting further into debt as a country?  Really...Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson increased the national debt during their tenure by about 750% each...but then they were fighting a war.  Reagan increased it by 160%.  Everyone else, regardless of party, pales in comparison...including Biden.

 

So what exactly is failing?!  Cheers!

 

Cheers!

[Luca]

10 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Growth for all, really?  Inequality in China is large.  In America the poorest are are probably wealthier than the average Chinese.  
 

You really do have a soft spot for the CCP.  Why should anyone like Xi deserve power for as long he wants?

More growth for all than what the west offers. America had much more time to industrialize than China did. Lets see what happens in China to poor people over coming decades. 

 

Not sure about "soft spot" but i agree with quite some things. I would be personally open to a genetically cloned dynasty of platos philosopher kings but thats another topic.

[RichardGibbons]

1 hour ago, Luca said:

Third, we should focus on practical cooperation and expedite economic recovery.

The really goofy thing about this speech is that Xi doesn't recognize that he's basically breaking "practical cooperation".

The magic of capitalism and free markets is that it is the most efficient form of cooperation ever discovered. To create and manufacture, say, a computer, millions of people are cooperating, from the chip designers in Silicon Valley to the copper miners in Chile to the Nigerian oil producers.

 

It doesn't matter at all that these people have never met each other--they are still working together as efficiently as possible to create a computer. And you know that that cooperation is ultimately practical, creating what's desired by people, because price signals show that's what people want.

 

And if those resources are better spent producing a car--because people now want cars, more than computers--those resources will efficiently get rerouted to producing vehicles instead of computers..

 

And so when Xi says, "practical cooperation", to me, it basically seems the same as saying, "we're going to build crap that people don't want or need and destroy our efficiency because I'm the Man and I say so."

 

That said, I understand why people buy into the idea, despite the strong, practical historic evidence of what works. Most people don't understand the magic of free markets and trade and delightful consequences like consumer surpluses. And, if one believes one can improve one's life by 20% at the small cost of hurting a million strangers by 1%, many people will take that deal.

[Sweet]

14 minutes ago, Luca said:

More growth for all than what the west offers. America had much more time to industrialize than China did. Lets see what happens in China to poor people over coming decades. 

 

Not sure about "soft spot" but i agree with quite some things. I would be personally open to a genetically cloned dynasty of platos philosopher kings but thats another topic.

Growth because of the West’s embrace, let’s remember that.  Despite that growth still significantly behind the rest of the world.  
 

You say America had more time to industrialise - really?  China is one of the oldest countries in the planet.  

 

Come on, it’s an obvious soft spot.  Xi is no Plato, and Plato didn’t know even half of what we know today.

[cubsfan]

32 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

America is failing?!  Where exactly is America failing?  

 

Do you live better than your parents did?  Are your children living better than you did?  

 

The largest companies in the world are predominantly U.S.  The USD is still the veto currency for security.  US culture remains dominant globally.  US educational institutions remain at the top of the heap.  US research into healthcare, robotics, AI, pharmaceuticals, infrastructure, etc...all are 1, 2 or 3 globally.

 

Where exactly is America failing?  How is your life worse today than 20-30 years ago?  I keep asking my conservative friends these questions and they have no answers.

 

Uh, we pay more in taxes!  Really, you pay more in taxes than your father did?  Your personal corporation pays more in taxes than corporations 20-30 years ago? 

 

Uh, healthcare is failing us!  Aren't most Americans living longer than previous generations?

 

Uh, radical left-wing politics is running rampant!  Yes, left-wing radicals are more rampant than radicals were in the 1970's?

 

Uh, we're getting further into debt as a country?  Really...Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson increased the national debt during their tenure by about 750% each...but then they were fighting a war.  Reagan increased it by 160%.  Everyone else, regardless of party, pales in comparison...including Biden.

 

So what exactly is failing?!  Cheers!

 

Cheers!

My life is wonderful and is much better for all than 40 years ago.

 

What’s failing is the notion of being an American. Tribalism will kill this once great country. We’re on the precipice.

 

You kill meritocracy, you destroy parent’s rights, you turn the schools into political institutions instead of true learning, you throttle the 1st Amendment, you use the government to jail your political opponents, you destroy the country’s borders, you make every discussion about racism, you make a large majority dependent on socialism….

 

You are well on your way to destroying America and turning it into Ecuador.

 

That’s exactly how you do it

Edited August 17, 2023 by cubsfan

[Parsad]

1 minute ago, cubsfan said:

My life is wonderful and is much better for all than 40 years ago.

 

What’s failing is the notion of being an American. Tribalism will kill this once great country. We’re on the precipice.

 

You kill meritocracy, you destroy parent’s rights, you turn the schools into political institutions instead of true learning, you throttle the 1st Amendment, you use the government to jail your political opponents, you destroy the country’s borders, you make a large majority dependent on socialism….

 

You are well on your way to destroying America and turning it into Ecuador.

 

That’s exactly how you do it

 

But with all that, your life is still better today and when compared to past generations!  Yeah, that's what I thought.  I'm guessing your kids or sibling's children if you don't have kids, are also all doing pretty good and living well. 

 

And the amazing thing is that this still exists even after an insurrection and attempt to overturn a democratic election, while flying transgendered vampires were stalking children in elementary schools, Hunter Biden was doing coke in the White House and Michelle Obama was planning her coup of a senile Joe Biden! 

 

How the hell will America survive this mess and not become Mexico!  Cheers!

[mcliu]

52 minutes ago, Parsad said:

Uh, healthcare is failing us!  Aren't most Americans living longer than previous generations?

 

Actually they are not:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/03/25/1164819944/live-free-and-die-the-sad-state-of-u-s-life-expectancy

 

Also the life expectancy gap is widening against comparable countries.. 

 

Education continues to fall behind:

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by mcliu

[Sweet]

5 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

But with all that, your life is still better today and when compared to past generations!  Yeah, that's what I thought.  I'm guessing your kids or sibling's children if you don't have kids, are also all doing pretty good and living well. 

 

And the amazing thing is that this still exists even after an insurrection and attempt to overturn a democratic election, while flying transgendered vampires were stalking children in elementary schools, Hunter Biden was doing coke in the White House and Michelle Obama was planning her coup of a senile Joe Biden! 

 

How the hell will America survive this mess and not become Mexico!  Cheers!

Parsad, I’m not American, so take it for what you will.  I don’t know anybody outside of the US who thinks the Jan 6th riot was anything more than a riot.  
 

‘Insurrection or coup’ is a narrative dreamed up largely by US media.  Real insurrections and coups are by actual soldiers and military, not by a rag tag motley crew of idiotic Trump supporters.

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Sweet

[cubsfan]

2 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

But with all that, your life is still better today and when compared to past generations!  Yeah, that's what I thought.  I'm guessing your kids or sibling's children if you don't have kids, are also all doing pretty good and living well. 

 

And the amazing thing is that this still exists even after an insurrection and attempt to overturn a democratic election, while flying transgendered vampires were stalking children in elementary schools, Hunter Biden was doing coke in the White House and Michelle Obama was planning her coup of a senile Joe Biden! 

 

How the hell will America survive this mess and not become Mexico!  Cheers!

Oh my god - the insurrection!!

 

Make me laugh - no weapons, but a great excuse to shoot your protester dead over climbing through a window.

 

Thanks for proving my point about weaponizing an unaccountable government against your political opponents!  
 

Somebody disputes the election results— throw them in jail!!!

 

Unless their name is Clinton, Ahbrams, Gore , etc

 

Welcome to the banana republic 

[Parsad]

11 minutes ago, mcliu said:

 

Actually they are not:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/03/25/1164819944/live-free-and-die-the-sad-state-of-u-s-life-expectancy

 

That's almost entirely related to diet and exercise.  Has nothing to do with political machinations or a failing U.S.  Cheers!

[Parsad]

8 minutes ago, Sweet said:

Parsad, I’m not American, so take it for what you will.  I don’t know anybody outside of the US who thinks the Jan 6th riot was anything more than a riot.  
 

‘Insurrection or coup’ is a narrative dreamed up largely by US media.  Real insurrections and coups are by actual soldiers and military, not by a rag tag motley crew of idiotic Trump supporters.

 

 

 

 

Attempt to hang the Vice-President for not overturning the election.  114 officers hurt.  The ex-President telling everyone that the Vice-President didn't do his job.  The ex-President trying to manipulate the outcome of the Georgia electoral process.  Whether it was a rag-tag, disorganized band of motley fools doesn't negate the outcome or attempted outcome.  Cheers! 

[Parsad]

8 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

Oh my god - the insurrection!!

 

Make me laugh - no weapons, but a great excuse to shoot your protester dead over climbing through a window.

 

Thanks for proving my point about weaponizing an unaccountable government against your political opponents!  
 

Somebody disputes the election results— throw them in jail!!!

 

Unless their name is Clinton, Ahbrams, Gore , etc

 

Welcome to the banana republic 

 

By the way, I only used the word "insurrection" because of they way you started to suggest that political clout was being used to jail opponents, the media is corrupt, etc.  It was my way of saying that you're blowing things way out of proportion and that your life is pretty damn good regardless of where you think your country is apparently failing!  Cheers!

[Sweet]

27 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

Attempt to hang the Vice-President for not overturning the election.  114 officers hurt.  The ex-President telling everyone that the Vice-President didn't do his job.  The ex-President trying to manipulate the outcome of the Georgia electoral process.  Whether it was a rag-tag, disorganized band of motley fools doesn't negate the outcome or attempted outcome.  Cheers! 

I don’t agree with you.  People get hurt in a riots and rioters themselves are criminals.

 

Trump crossed a line, deserves punishment, isn’t fit for office… agree…. but separate from the rioters at the capitol that day.

Also wrong was the three year of lies and bs about Russia collusion.  I think Trump had reasonable grounds for calling it a witch-hunt.

 

Why can’t both be wrong?

 

Why can’t we dispassionately and accurately appraise events - in the long run nobody will take your views seriously if you can’t. 
 

To me you’re espousing the opposite view of those conspiracy and 4chan nuts who think Trump won the election.  Blind adherence to your team - what’s the difference except the team?  Your team tried to unseat a sitting President with lies - have you called it out?  Your team want to make a riot into a coup - really?  I was sitting in Newark airport watching CNN call it a ‘coup’, I remember thinking nobody in the airport gave a fuck.

The media in America is garbage.  It doesn’t report the news it creates narratives and pits people against each other.  I swear it’s the root of so much polarisation.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Sweet

[cubsfan]

^^^ Of course life is good, just wonderful @Parsad:
 

Crime is out of control

Schools are awful

Fentanyl is killing our young

Inflation is terrible 

Race relations are at a decades low

The DOJ, FBI are weaponized against 1/2 the country

Like Dealraker says: Life is great, if you can stand it

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by cubsfan

[zippy1]

One of my friends who had worked many years in China recently told me, there would be no financial crisis because the "debt holders" would not insist not being repaid.  It looks like he is right.  
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/chinese-police-pay-cordial-visits-homes-angry-zhongrong-investors-urging-them-not-protest

Edited August 17, 2023 by zippy1

[Sweet]

11 minutes ago, zippy1 said:

One of my friends who had worked many years in China recently told me, there would be no financial crisis because the "debt holders" would not insist not being repaid.  It looks like he is right.  
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/chinese-police-pay-cordial-visits-homes-angry-zhongrong-investors-urging-them-not-protest

So why would anyone ever lend to anyone again in China?

[Parsad]

24 minutes ago, Sweet said:

I don’t agree with you.  People get hurt in a riots and rioters themselves are criminals.

 

Trump crossed a line, deserves punishment, isn’t fit for office… agree…. but separate from the rioters at the capitol that day.

Also wrong was the three year of lies and bs about Russia collusion.  I think Trump had reasonable grounds for calling it a witch-hunt.

 

Why can’t both be wrong?

 

Why can’t we dispassionately and accurately appraise events - in the long run nobody will take your views seriously if you can’t. 
 

To me you’re espousing the opposite view of those conspiracy and 4chan nuts who think Trump won the election.  Blind adherence to your team - what’s the difference except the team?  Your team tried to unseat a sitting President with lies - have you called it out?  Your team want to make a riot into a coup - really?  I was sitting in Newark airport watching CNN call it a ‘coup’, I remember thinking nobody in the airport gave a fuck.

The media in America is garbage.  It doesn’t report the news it creates narratives and pits people against each other.  I swear it’s the root of so much polarisation.

 

First, I agree with you that the media can be polarizing.  Not sure it is particularly worse in the U.S. as so far as print media goes, but certainly is worse when it comes to television news...CNN, Fox, MSNBC, Newsmax (can we even call Newsmax news)?!. 

 

I would totally agree with you if the riot happened in the open street or against office buildings/retail or even outside Pence's house!  But it happened not just outside and around the Capitol, but within!

 

If someone decides to protest at the courts or breaks a window at the courts, what happens to them?  They get arrested, charged and possibly go to jail.  Why?  What's the difference between breaking a window at the courts or some random house?  Big effing difference!

 

If this happened at the airport, would these guys simply get reprimanded or charged with probably severe convictions?  Likely some would have gotten terrorist convictions.

 

So it's not about what happened...it's about where it happened!  Cheers!

[Parsad]

30 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

^^^ Of course life is good, just wonderful @Parsad:
 

Crime is out of control

Schools are awful

Fentanyl is killing our young

Inflation is terrible 

Race relations are at a decades low

The DOJ, FBI are weaponized against 1/2 the country

Like Dealraker says: Life is great, if you can stand it

 

 

So even with all that...your life is still better!  Yet, if anyone spoke to you for the first time, they would think the world was ending tomorrow and America was the next what was it...Ecuador!

 

Cheers!

 

 

[Sweet]

9 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

First, I agree with you that the media can be polarizing.  Not sure it is particularly worse in the U.S. as so far as print media goes, but certainly is worse when it comes to television news...CNN, Fox, MSNBC, Newsmax (can we even call Newsmax news)?!. 

 

I would totally agree with you if the riot happened in the open street or against office buildings/retail or even outside Pence's house!  But it happened not just outside and around the Capitol, but within!

 

If someone decides to protest at the courts or breaks a window at the courts, what happens to them?  They get arrested, charged and possibly go to jail.  Why?  What's the difference between breaking a window at the courts or some random house?  Big effing difference!

 

If this happened at the airport, would these guys simply get reprimanded or charged with probably severe convictions?  Likely some would have gotten terrorist convictions.

 

So it's not about what happened...it's about where it happened!  Cheers!

Of course what happened matter, intent is important.  Most people on Jan 6th where there to voice their support for Trump.  And anger.

 

Trump was the sitting President, it was his administration, why the heck are supporters of Trump staging an insurrection or coup when their boy is still in power?

 

[cubsfan]

34 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

 

If someone decides to protest at the courts or breaks a window at the courts, what happens to them?  They get arrested, charged and possibly go to jail.  Why?  What's the difference between breaking a window at the courts or some random house?  Big effing difference!

 

You are so wrong . They burned down a Federal court house in Portland- what happened? Nothing 

 

They burned down a the police’s station in Minneapolis- what happened?   Nothing

 

They burned down a church across the street from the White House - what happened?  Nothing

 

All because of the 2 tier justice system currently in place.

 

And to top it all off - Kamala Harris set up bail funds for offenders, just in case!

[james22]

3 hours ago, Luca said:

China wont have "socialism" like mao zedong did it, it will be a hyper capitalistic market still BUT with regular regulation and intervention that fine tunes growth for all.

 

I was going to bow out, but this is too funny. 

 

"Fine tune"?!? LOL

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_knowledge_problem 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Use_of_Knowledge_in_Society

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem

[Parsad]

3 hours ago, Sweet said:

Of course what happened matter, intent is important.  Most people on Jan 6th where there to voice their support for Trump.  And anger.

 

Trump was the sitting President, it was his administration, why the heck are supporters of Trump staging an insurrection or coup when their boy is still in power?

 

 

Because their boy lost power.  And then he tried to do almost everything, even criminal acts, to retain power and usurp the democratic process.  Cheers!