Political Posts

[cubsfan]

17 minutes ago, LC said:

 

From the respective state's departments of health...which admittedly is not as entertaining a source as our buddy DT! 

 

I just gave you all the document requirements direct from the Texas and Florida Departments.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/w2w/index.htm

 

https://thecobf.com/forum/topic/19406-political-posts/page/1079/#findComment-691725

 

  

[73 Reds]

13 hours ago, dwy000 said:

There's no fraud!  We can argue all we want but at the end of the day there is no fraud going on.  As @dealraker has pointed out, Trump has won this argument by putting a totally unnecessary and irrelevant argument at the center of our attention. We are arguing about fixing something that is not broken because Trump doesnt like that he lost and is seeding the same arguments for midterms that are looking terrible.  In the meantime discussion has once again shifted away from the disaster in Iran and the still unreleased Epstein files.  

 

We pretty much have the exact same system that @Parsad pointed out is also working really well in Canada.  Its working. Really, really, really well.  Why are we trying to "fix" something that works?  Well...we know why.  Because Trump hates losing. 

What a dopey post.  Cubs has already posted many instances of fraud.  And that is just what has been reported.  Some states have an incentive to hide any fraud because it helps push even more fraud and illegal activity.  Maybe "sanctuary cities" is a new term for you as well.  They are synonymous with breaking existing law.    With your logic, no one associated with Epstein other than G. Maxwell could possibly have been bad because they haven't been caught.    Only on COBF!

[whiskybravo]

https://spectator.com/article/the-real-chinese-election-plot/?edition=us
 

The biggest Chinese election threat is not secretly changing vote totals.  It is using information warfare, cyber capabilities, and social media manipulation to erode faith in democracy itself.

[cubsfan]

The argument is more nuanced than that.

 

Let's not forget, when the Iranians and Russians were accused and sued by the Biden Intelligence agencies for hacking, stealing information in attempts to influence Federal Elections:

 

Biden DOJ on Iran - I believe this was over stealing 100,000 records.

 

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/three-irgc-cyber-actors-indicted-hack-and-leak-operation-designed-influence-2024-us

 

Biden DOJ on Russia - I believe this was in regards to a few million records.

 

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/justice-department-disrupts-covert-russian-government-sponsored-foreign-malign-influence

 

Biden went so far as expelling 10 or 20 Russian diplomats from the USA.

 

Note the claims on China hacking/stealing is over 250 MILLION voters records.

 

Question for you:

 

Why does the Biden Intelligence agencies claim theft of Voter information by Iran and Russia is a THREAT to Federal Election and then promptly sue the entities?

 

But then Democrats blow a gasket when the Trump administration reveals that China stole 200X as much information, but China is NOT A THREAT?

 

Serious question.

 

 

[whiskybravo]

51 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

The argument is more nuanced than that.

 

Let's not forget, when the Iranians and Russians were accused and sued by the Biden Intelligence agencies for hacking, stealing information in attempts to influence Federal Elections:

 

Biden DOJ on Iran - I believe this was over stealing 100,000 records.

 

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/three-irgc-cyber-actors-indicted-hack-and-leak-operation-designed-influence-2024-us

 

Biden DOJ on Russia - I believe this was in regards to a few million records.

 

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/justice-department-disrupts-covert-russian-government-sponsored-foreign-malign-influence

 

Biden went so far as expelling 10 or 20 Russian diplomats from the USA.

 

Note the claims on China hacking/stealing is over 250 MILLION voters records.

 

Question for you:

 

Why does the Biden Intelligence agencies claim theft of Voter information by Iran and Russia is a THREAT to Federal Election and then promptly sue the entities?

 

But then Democrats blow a gasket when the Trump administration reveals that China stole 200X as much information, but China is NOT A THREAT?

 

Serious question.

 

 

That’s a totally fair question.  There is difference between what Iran and Russia did versus this China data claim.  Namely how the information was obtained.  The issue is that Trump framed the acquisition of largely public data as a catastrophic, secret hack of our election infrastructure to imply the 2020 election results were stolen. China absolutely wants our data to target us with social media manipulation. But using public voter registries to build target profiles for information warfare is a completely different ballgame than Russian military intelligence hacking into private servers. Both are threats, but they are fundamentally different situations.

 

I think the real distinction is between stealing non public information and using data as part of an election influence operation. Russia and Iran were accused of targeted hack and leak campaigns explicitly designed to alter voter perceptions. China has absolutely been accused of massive cyber espionage and influence operations, and those are serious threats, but the evidence for any particular database being used to alter a specific election outcome is a separate question. The broader point remains that foreign powers can undermine democracy without changing vote totals by eroding trust, exploiting divisions, and gathering intelligence for future operations

 

 

[whiskybravo]

Another thought, the question of whether the same standard is being applied.  The Biden DOJ indicted IRGC actors for cyber operations intended to harm Trump.

[Spekulatius]

19 hours ago, Maverick47 said:

I have to push back a bit on this.  There is a modest cost in terms of time, money and research needed to order one from the county recorder’s office where one was born.  And of course, the president is trying to outlaw birth citizenship, so perhaps a birth certificate showing one was born in the US will not be valid.  How do things work for folks whose parents were US citizens but happened to be born outside the US?  Would their birth certificate prove US citizenship?  How else does one prove citizenship if a birth certificate is no longer the gold standard?
 

I don’t happen to have a passport.  Years ago I wanted to drive to Canada and learned that the US border control would require certified birth certificates for my family in order to re-enter the US.

 

I had to order my own from a county in Illinois and certified copies from the counties my four children happened to be born in.  The most difficult to obtain was for my wife, who was adopted at birth in San Francisco.  Her record was only retained on microfiche at a state run agency in Sacramento.  I had to send a money order or cashiers check for that cost as they wouldn’t accept a personal check and the application had to be filled in and submitted by snail mail.  The stated processing time was 2-3 months.

 

The good news was that we received all of these in time for our vacation.  The bad news is that I have misplaced my wife’s since then.

 

The legislation will raise barriers to voting, and would seem to impact most those who don’t have the time to research how to obtain certified copies of their certificates, or for whom the cost is material compared to using those same funds to pay for groceries or gasoline to get to and from work.  I know when I had six mouths to feed, when the children were younger, that I wouldn’t have prioritized voting over food.

 

This is one of those statistical error type situations where the effect would be to restrict more folks from legally voting than to legally stop those who aren’t legally allowed to vote in the first place.

 

Speaking of which, has anyone stopped to think that in many cases, only about 75% of US citizens who are eligible to vote are actually registered to do so?  And not all of these voters do so, meaning that perhaps only  65% of all citizens eligible to vote actually do so in any presidential election.
 

Approximately 25% haven’t bothered to register.  So any election that is very close inherently means that less than half of US citizens end up selecting the winner.

 

I think this could easily be solvable with a national ID that is provided free of charge or a very small fee to any citizen. I don’t think the democrats would disagree to this. Pretty much every country but the USA has this, why can’t the USA do this as well? Behind would  solve the problem once for all rather than  the current patchwork. Running around with a birth certificate to validate your identity is ridiculous. I guess the passport card serves the same purpose but it took me almost 2 months to get it after I was naturalized.

 

And yes, it can take month to get a new birth certificate . This depends on the county you have been born with, whether there were name changes (like with married women) etc.

Edited yesterday at 06:40 PM by Spekulatius

[Maverick47]

52 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

I think this could easily be solvable with a national ID that is provided free of charge or a very small fee to any citizen. I don’t think the democrats would disagree to this. Pretty much every country but the USA has this, why can’t the USA do this as well? Behind would  solve the problem once for all rather than  the current patchwork. Running around with a birth certificate to validate your identity is ridiculous. I guess the passport card serves the same purpose but it took me almost 2 months to get it after I was naturalized.

 

And yes, it can take month to get a new birth certificate . This depends on the county you have been born with, whether there were name changes (like with married women) etc.

Edited 28 minutes ago by Spekulatius

Agreed.  
 

There has been one modest step towards something like this in an effort to reduce tax fraud (folks claiming dependent credits for children who don’t exist).  It has been quite standard for decades now for Social Security cards/numbers to be made available for newborns by filling out a form made available to parents at the hospital where the birth took place.

 

Still possible for some folks to fall through the cracks if they aren’t born at a hospital, or if their parents aren’t responsible and either don’t request one or lose one if it was issued.  
 

But the idea that from birth an individual should be uniquely identified and given documentation regarding their citizenship status either for free or at low cost makes a lot of sense.

I wonder how citizenship was provable in the Roman world?  In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul was arrested and brought before the local authorities.  He surprised the local governor  by appealing his case to Caesar in Rome, which was his right as a Roman citizen.  Perhaps he did not look that wealthy, because I recall that the person to whom he was appealing his case reacted in surprise and mentioned that his own Roman citizenship had cost him quite a bit of money.  Paul replied something to the effect that he was born a Roman citizen.  I think his father was a Roman citizen, which under Roman law, made him one also, from birth.

 

At any rate, he appears to have been believed, and was sent on his way as a prisoner to Rome to have his case heard there.  Unfortunately, I think the emperor at the time would have been Nero, which probably didn’t bode well for the eventual outcome of his appeal.

 

My guess is there would have been some sort of birth registry/records available that would have supported Paul’s citizenship contention 2000 years ago.

Edited yesterday at 07:29 PM by Maverick47

[cubsfan]

6 hours ago, whiskybravo said:

That’s a totally fair question.  There is difference between what Iran and Russia did versus this China data claim.  Namely how the information was obtained.  The issue is that Trump framed the acquisition of largely public data as a catastrophic, secret hack of our election infrastructure to imply the 2020 election results were stolen. China absolutely wants our data to target us with social media manipulation. But using public voter registries to build target profiles for information warfare is a completely different ballgame than Russian military intelligence hacking into private servers. Both are threats, but they are fundamentally different situations.

 

I think the real distinction is between stealing non public information and using data as part of an election influence operation. Russia and Iran were accused of targeted hack and leak campaigns explicitly designed to alter voter perceptions. China has absolutely been accused of massive cyber espionage and influence operations, and those are serious threats, but the evidence for any particular database being used to alter a specific election outcome is a separate question. The broader point remains that foreign powers can undermine democracy without changing vote totals by eroding trust, exploiting divisions, and gathering intelligence for future operations

 

The point is that the lawsuits brought by Biden DOJ were BECAUSE of the threat to Federal Elections. The data was hacked by Iran and Russia and stolen to influence the elections - according to Biden DOJ.

 

It is almost identical in INTENT - but in potential impact, totally dwarfed by the massive amount of voter data that China hacked.

 

Can't have it both ways - and say Trump is wrong, but Biden is not.   That is just hypocrisy.

[cubsfan]

7 hours ago, whiskybravo said:

That’s a totally fair question.  There is difference between what Iran and Russia did versus this China data claim.  Namely how the information was obtained.  The issue is that Trump framed the acquisition of largely public data as a catastrophic, secret hack of our election infrastructure to imply the 2020 election results were stolen. China absolutely wants our data to target us with social media manipulation. But using public voter registries to build target profiles for information warfare is a completely different ballgame than Russian military intelligence hacking into private servers. Both are threats, but they are fundamentally different situations.

 

I think the real distinction is between stealing non public information and using data as part of an election influence operation. Russia and Iran were accused of targeted hack and leak campaigns explicitly designed to alter voter perceptions. China has absolutely been accused of massive cyber espionage and influence operations, and those are serious threats, but the evidence for any particular database being used to alter a specific election outcome is a separate question. The broader point remains that foreign powers can undermine democracy without changing vote totals by eroding trust, exploiting divisions, and gathering intelligence for future operations

 

And forgive me for being blunt. The Chinese stole the data directly from government databases. 18 States.  Worse, yet - Biden Admin did NOT tell you.

 

If the media spins it as "harmless data, they are lying. The hack is actually sensitive & confidential voter data that IS NOT publicly available.  

 

Chinese intelligence reportedly accessed millions of U.S. voter records, stealing sensitive information including partial Social Security numbers, driver's license data, and detailed voter profiles from at least 18 states. The data breach involved names, addresses, and voting histories. 

 

And with this information - they can obtain a voters ballot and vote.   

 

Regardless - are you comfortable with the Chinese having YOUR SS#, DL, Address, Name, etc??

 

I doubt you are - shit, even an American Corporation is required BY LAW to notify you personally that YOUR private data has been hacked.

 

In this case - you are finding out YEARS later your private information has been hacked, since Biden Intelligence Agencies BURIED the hack.

Edited 22 hours ago by cubsfan

[whiskybravo]

49 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

And forgive me for being blunt. The Chinese stole the data directly from government databases. 18 States.  Worse, yet - Biden Admin did NOT tell you.

 

If the media spins it as "harmless data, they are lying. The hack is actually sensitive & confidential voter data that IS NOT publicly available.  

 

Chinese intelligence reportedly accessed millions of U.S. voter records, stealing sensitive information including partial Social Security numbers, driver's license data, and detailed voter profiles from at least 18 states. The data breach involved names, addresses, and voting histories. 

 

And with this information - they can obtain a voters ballot and vote.   

 

Regardless - are you comfortable with the Chinese having YOUR SS#, DL, Address, Name, etc??

 

I doubt you are - shit, even an American Corporation is required BY LAW to notify you personally that YOUR private data has been hacked.

 

In this case - you are finding out YEARS later your private information has been hacked, since Biden Intelligence Agencies BURIED the hack.

Nobody is comfortable with China or any foreign power vacuuming up American personal data. But voter rolls are public records. In those 18 states voter registration files are public information. Political campaigns, corporate data brokers, and commercial marketers legally buy or download this exact data every day. The declassified intelligence files don't show a hack of secure government databases.  They show China gathering data that is already legally out there.  They don’t contain SSNs or Driver's Licenses. Publicly accessible state voter files do not contain highly sensitive information like Social Security numbers or driver’s license data. States are required by law to keep those specific identifiers strictly confidential and restricted.

 

You can't use it to steal a vote.  Simply knowing someone’s public name and address does not allow a foreign adversary to request a ballot and vote it. Election security relies on localized verification. In fact, the declassified documents released by the White House themselves explicitly state there is zero evidence that China altered voter rolls, produced fake ballots, or changed a single vote tally.

 

So it’s not about hypocrisy.  It’s about a fundamental difference in the crime. Russia and Iran carried out cyber warfare by illegally hacking into private, encrypted servers to steal confidential, non public data for hack and leak operations. China is playing a long-game information warfare strategy by scraping public records to map out American demographics and target us with social media manipulation. Both are threats to be taken seriously, but only one is a breach of actual election security infrastructure.

[Blake Hampton]

Why is it that the loudest people normally have the least to say?

 

And how can you base your beliefs on what Trump says when all he does is lie?

[dwy000]

1 hour ago, Blake Hampton said:

Why is it that the loudest people normally have the least to say?

 

And how can you base your beliefs on what Trump says when all he does is lie?

Thats how cults work. 

[cubsfan]

1 hour ago, whiskybravo said:

Nobody is comfortable with China or any foreign power vacuuming up American personal data. But voter rolls are public records. In those 18 states voter registration files are public information. Political campaigns, corporate data brokers, and commercial marketers legally buy or download this exact data every day. The declassified intelligence files don't show a hack of secure government databases.  They show China gathering data that is already legally out there.  They don’t contain SSNs or Driver's Licenses. Publicly accessible state voter files do not contain highly sensitive information like Social Security numbers or driver’s license data. States are required by law to keep those specific identifiers strictly confidential and restricted.

 

You can't use it to steal a vote.  Simply knowing someone’s public name and address does not allow a foreign adversary to request a ballot and vote it. Election security relies on localized verification. In fact, the declassified documents released by the White House themselves explicitly state there is zero evidence that China altered voter rolls, produced fake ballots, or changed a single vote tally.

 

So it’s not about hypocrisy.  It’s about a fundamental difference in the crime. Russia and Iran carried out cyber warfare by illegally hacking into private, encrypted servers to steal confidential, non public data for hack and leak operations. China is playing a long-game information warfare strategy by scraping public records to map out American demographics and target us with social media manipulation. Both are threats to be taken seriously, but only one is a breach of actual election security infrastructure.

 

That is NOT correct - they have names, addresses, passwords, login ID's and millions of SS#, Birthdates, etc, etc..

 

Have you actually read the vast amount of disclosure that Trump put out about the Chinese hacks into the States Databases????

 

Are you familiar with PII Security Data??

 

https://www.ibm.com/think/topics/pii

 

This is what they have hacked for millions of US residents in these data bases.

 

I suggest you read the Report - I've spent 2 days reading.

 

https://electionrecords.netlify.app

 

 

Edited 20 hours ago by cubsfan

[cubsfan]

1 hour ago, Blake Hampton said:

Why is it that the loudest people normally have the least to say?

 

And how can you base your beliefs on what Trump says when all he does is lie?

 

Blake - please - adults are talking. Unless you have actual truth and facts to discuss....

 

 

[LC]

On 7/18/2026 at 6:17 PM, cubsfan said:

I just gave you all the document requirements direct from the Texas and Florida Departments.

 

I know I said I wouldn't do the homework for you, but for the peanut gallery: Texas law prohibits release of confidential data (birth certificates in this case), and their dept of health enforces it. Try and request a BC in Texas, the 2nd question is to prove your identity/relationship. Same in Florida.

 

And its the same across the majority of states, red and blue. I guess a few decades ago, our state senators across both parties had some brain function remaining!

[Parsad]

On 7/18/2026 at 3:23 PM, cubsfan said:

 

Canada does things that make sense, which the USA does not. You don't have crazy fraud like we do.  You definitely got us beat. Don't change what's not being abused.  

 

The USA must change.

 

Perhaps, that's true.  But the fact remains, very little fraud has occurred in the U.S.  If anything, people are taking advantage of loopholes...but how is that different than paid lobbyists pushing agendas...or Presidents and politicians not paying taxes?  Cheers!

[Parsad]

On 7/18/2026 at 4:39 PM, Maverick47 said:

I have to push back a bit on this.  There is a modest cost in terms of time, money and research needed to order one from the county recorder’s office where one was born.  And of course, the president is trying to outlaw birth citizenship, so perhaps a birth certificate showing one was born in the US will not be valid.  How do things work for folks whose parents were US citizens but happened to be born outside the US?  Would their birth certificate prove US citizenship?  How else does one prove citizenship if a birth certificate is no longer the gold standard?
 

I don’t happen to have a passport.  Years ago I wanted to drive to Canada and learned that the US border control would require certified birth certificates for my family in order to re-enter the US.

 

I had to order my own from a county in Illinois and certified copies from the counties my four children happened to be born in.  The most difficult to obtain was for my wife, who was adopted at birth in San Francisco.  Her record was only retained on microfiche at a state run agency in Sacramento.  I had to send a money order or cashiers check for that cost as they wouldn’t accept a personal check and the application had to be filled in and submitted by snail mail.  The stated processing time was 2-3 months.

 

The good news was that we received all of these in time for our vacation.  The bad news is that I have misplaced my wife’s since then.

 

The legislation will raise barriers to voting, and would seem to impact most those who don’t have the time to research how to obtain certified copies of their certificates, or for whom the cost is material compared to using those same funds to pay for groceries or gasoline to get to and from work.  I know when I had six mouths to feed, when the children were younger, that I wouldn’t have prioritized voting over food.

 

This is one of those statistical error type situations where the effect would be to restrict more folks from legally voting than to legally stop those who aren’t legally allowed to vote in the first place.

 

Speaking of which, has anyone stopped to think that in many cases, only about 75% of US citizens who are eligible to vote are actually registered to do so?  And not all of these voters do so, meaning that perhaps only  65% of all citizens eligible to vote actually do so in any presidential election.
 

Approximately 25% haven’t bothered to register.  So any election that is very close inherently means that less than half of US citizens end up selecting the winner.

 

 

+1!  Cheers!

[Parsad]

4 hours ago, cubsfan said:

 

The point is that the lawsuits brought by Biden DOJ were BECAUSE of the threat to Federal Elections. The data was hacked by Iran and Russia and stolen to influence the elections - according to Biden DOJ.

 

It is almost identical in INTENT - but in potential impact, totally dwarfed by the massive amount of voter data that China hacked.

 

Can't have it both ways - and say Trump is wrong, but Biden is not.   That is just hypocrisy.

 

The fact is, that no outside country was able to actually manipulate the elections in any scale to change any outcome.  Vulnerabilities are there, just like they are there in Defense, Energy, Financial Systems and Communications.  Cheers!

 

https://abcnews.com/US/declassified-documents-touted-trump-election-systems-difficult-manipulate/story?id=134848184

[cubsfan]

11 minutes ago, LC said:

 

I know I said I wouldn't do the homework for you, but for the peanut gallery: Texas law prohibits release of confidential data (birth certificates in this case), and their dept of health enforces it. Try and request a BC in Texas, the 2nd question is to prove your identity/relationship. Same in Florida.

 

And its the same across the majority of states, red and blue. I guess a few decades ago, our state senators across both parties had some brain function remaining!

 

Why is it that the State of Texas says you are wrong.

 

From their website --- It's free for elections.

 

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/vital-statistics/birth-records/birth-certificate-election-identification

 

Birth Certificate for Election Identification:

Obtaining your birth record to apply for an Election Identification Certificate (EIC) from the Texas Department of Public Safety is easy and free.

 

 

[Parsad]

3 hours ago, Blake Hampton said:

Why is it that the loudest people normally have the least to say?

 

And how can you base your beliefs on what Trump says when all he does is lie?

 

No, he doesn't just lie...he also tries to squeeze himself into World Cup championship trophy ceremony photos!  The man has no shame...no shame at all...even when the FIFA President tried to guide him off the stage, he completely ignored him!  Hilarious!  Cheers!

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Da_i79PNPxN/

[Parsad]

1 hour ago, cubsfan said:

 

Blake - please - adults are talking. Unless you have actual truth and facts to discuss....

 

 

 

Not fair to dismiss him just because you don't like what he is saying.  You are perfectly welcome to ignore him.  Cheers!

[cubsfan]

10 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

Perhaps, that's true.  But the fact remains, very little fraud has occurred in the U.S.  If anything, people are taking advantage of loopholes...but how is that different than paid lobbyists pushing agendas...or Presidents and politicians not paying taxes?  Cheers!

 

If that is the case, then why did the Biden administration blow a gasket and criminally charge both Russia and Iran with election interference?

 

Why did Biden expel 10-20 Russian officials from the country for election interference?

 

Why would Biden make such a big deal about election interference  - but President Trump should say absolutely nothing?

[cubsfan]

6 minutes ago, Parsad said:

 

The fact is, that no outside country was able to actually manipulate the elections in any scale to change any outcome.  Vulnerabilities are there, just like they are there in Defense, Energy, Financial Systems and Communications.  Cheers!

 

https://abcnews.com/US/declassified-documents-touted-trump-election-systems-difficult-manipulate/story?id=134848184

 

But Biden criminally charged both Russia and Iran for influence Federal Elections. 

Then he expelled their diplomats.

[whiskybravo]

1 hour ago, cubsfan said:

 

That is NOT correct - they have names, addresses, passwords, login ID's and millions of SS#, Birthdates, etc, etc..

 

Have you actually read the vast amount of disclosure that Trump put out about the Chinese hacks into the States Databases????

 

Are you familiar with PII Security Data??

 

https://www.ibm.com/think/topics/pii

 

This is what they have hacked for millions of US residents in these data bases.

 

I suggest you read the Report - I've spent 2 days reading.

 

https://electionrecords.netlify.app

 

 

The 18 states memo does refer to PII, but PII is a broad category. A person’s name and home address are PII. So are Social Security numbers and passwords. The memo itself doesn’t appear to specify the latter.
 

So if you’re saying these documents show that China hacked state election databases containing Social Security numbers, passwords, or login IDs, could you point me to the specific document and page?  That would be a much stronger claim than what I’m seeing in the released summaries and memos.

 

That same memo states their goal was to conduct public opinion analysis.  This is exactly what the Spectator piece was warning about. China is harvesting huge amounts of demographics to fuel AI and target us with social media manipulation. They gathered public voter files to map out American society.  It’s an information warfare threat, not a technical hack of our voting infrastructure.