Political Posts

[73 Reds]

4 minutes ago, changegonnacome said:

 

Did we? How can you give to somebody something that is already theirs? Another MAGA misunderstanding I fear.

 

All thats ever been given to Iran by the United States is assets/cash belonging to them that were frozen in foreign bank accounts using our global clout and leverage. The net cost of transfers from the US taxpayer to Iran remains at $0.00....we've given Israel a lot money but thats been discussed before.......but in return for unfreezing the Iranian's asset we got to put a major problem on ICE......the story I'm telling here (which may be wrong of course) is that we won't believe how cheap it was to give $0.00 to the Iranian's to put this headache to bed when the actual bill for putting it to bed a different way arrives.....we are likely hundreds of millions if not a billion or two deep in paying for that solution right now.

 

 

Yes your right I did lob Ukraine-Russia cause it so damn obvious....that like Iran.....Trump is mismanaging the foreign relations portfolio.....in his defense, what I would say, is that to a certain extent the final destination for the Ukraine-Russia conflict (Ukrainian collapse) was locked in a box when Sleepy Joe Biden egged on by Boris 'shopping trolley' Johnson refused the Istanbul peace talk off ramp and further still later didn't seek peace after the re-taking of Kharkiv and Kherson which was the high water mark of the Ukrainian counteroffensive.

So wrong.  Who gives money to terrorists?  When you miss the forest through the trees, there really is nothing more to discuss.  Giving money to Israel is in any way comparable to giving money to Iran?  Really??????  Ditch your "MAGA" obsession;  then maybe we'll have something to talk about.

[changegonnacome]

1 hour ago, 73 Reds said:

Who gives money to terrorists?  When you miss the forest through the trees, there really is nothing more to discuss.  Giving money to Israel is in any way comparable to giving money to Iran?  Really??????  Ditch your "MAGA" obsession;  then maybe we'll have something to talk about.

 

We gave them their own money - in return we got a neutralized Iranian nuclear program.....Trump likes deal....it was a great deal...I dont like filling up Iranian's coffers with money anymore than you do.....but you are familiar I'm sure in business and life that your presented, at times, with two choices - a terrible one and an absolutely horrendous one.....sometimes you've got to take terrible choice....as its the best one available to you.........to which I'll ask you.....how do you propose to stop Iran getting a bomb now?

 

Edited July 16, 2025 by changegonnacome

[cubsfan]

2 hours ago, changegonnacome said:

 

We gave them their own money - in return we got a neutralized Iranian nuclear program.....Trump likes deal....it was a great deal...I dont like filling up Iranian's coffers with money anymore than you do.....but you are familiar I'm sure in business and life that your presented, at times, with two choices - a terrible one and an absolutely horrendous one.....sometimes you've got to take terrible choice....as its the best one available to you.........to which I'll ask you.....how do you propose to stop Iran getting a bomb now?

 

 

You gotta be kidding - we made Iran rich again, so they could build up their proxies and military. The 2 biggest fools in the world were Obama and Biden for placating and trusting Iran. 

 

The best thing to happen to the world in years is crushing Iran. Thank Israel and Trump.

[changegonnacome]

1 hour ago, cubsfan said:

we made Iran rich again, so they could build up their proxies and military. The 2 biggest fools in the world were Obama and Biden for placating and trusting Iran. 

 

The best thing to happen to the world in years is crushing Iran. Thank Israel and Trump.

 

I love your tone of finality as if Iran somehow now has no agency, no resources and no offensive military capabilities left nor strategic options.........I hope your right, and I'm wrong....but your wrong of course they are 95m people.....with vast oil resources......sizable military capabilities (drone, balistic, troops) and one hell of a strategic option left.....which is to mine the Strait of Hormuz and play havoc with the global economy.

 

The reality is Iran is now a wounded tiger....doubly dangerous & doubly irrational.....at a minimum they race for a bomb and the military options to stop it just shrunk considerably....they know exactly what a B-2 bunker buster can do now.......their re-constituted Manhattan project will be buried deeper next time beyond where B-2 bombers can get too.......and as I asked @73 Reds whats the game plan now exactly to stop an Iranian Manhattan project 500ft under a mountain exactly?

 

Giving Iran their own money in exchange for putting their nuclear program on ice & under IAEA inspection is just a terrible thing to do.......the problem was the alternative options we're worse.......Trump has just opened the door called 'alternative options' and we'll find out over his term whether the JCPOA with its $0.00 price tag, no military commitments represented a superior strategic choice.

 

[Spekulatius]

6 hours ago, 73 Reds said:

Not sure why you insist on conflating issues.  We gave Iran a lot of money and just because China continues to do so doesn't mean we should follow suit or do anything in support of a terrorist regime.  

W e did not give airs any money. The money they that was theirs in trust accounts and this was part of the nuclear deal. Iran abided by the deal terms, Trump tore it up thinking he can get a a better.

 

Also, we have been sanctioning the Iran economy for 40 years basically. It stunted their economic development  for sure, but it only goes so far. They can still sell their oil in the market and the UAE is the second largest trading partner.

 

Besides, Trump  wanted to make a deal with Iran -then Israel started dropping bombs

[cubsfan]

5 minutes ago, changegonnacome said:

 

I love your tone of finality as if Iran somehow now has no agency, no resources and no offensive military capabilities left nor strategic options.........I hope your right, and I'm wrong....but your wrong of course they are 95m people.....with vast oil resources......sizable military capabilities (drone, balistic, troops) and one hell of a strategic option left.....which is to mine the Strait of Hormuz and play havoc with the global economy.

 

The reality is Iran is now a wounded tiger....doubly dangerous & doubly irrational.....at a minimum they race for a bomb and the military options to stop it just shrunk considerably....they know exactly what a B-2 bunker buster can do now.......their re-constituted Manhattan project will be buried deeper next time beyond where B-2 bombers can get too.......and as I asked @73 Reds whats the game plan now exactly to stop an Iranian Manhattan project 500ft under a mountain exactly?

 

Giving Iran their own money in exchange for putting their nuclear program on ice & under IAEA inspection is just a terrible thing to do.......the problem was the alternative options we're worse.......Trump has just opened the door called 'alternative options' and we'll find out over his term whether the JCPOA with its $0.00 price tag, no military commitments represented a superior strategic choice.

 

 

Just as you said the alternative for Iran is to nuke up. The alternative for the West is to continue to kill their leaders (and perhaps the Ayatollah). It's pretty simple really. The West knows they are defenseless and feckless. If, perhaps, Iran is simply a death cult - well, then all the leadership will die and a whole lot of other people.

 

To give Iran billions of dollars of their own money - in exchange for killing thousands of Americans, Europeans, and other non-believers over the period of 40 years - is the height of lunacy.  Obama/Biden felt they could "welcome" them into the community of nations - why in the world would you do that again and again?

 

Just as you say Putin played Trump for a stooge - Iran did the exact same thing with Obama/Biden. 

 

Iran is down, but not out. But if they all want to die, the ball is in their court, becuase they know what is coming.

[73 Reds]

12 hours ago, Spekulatius said:

W e did not give airs any money. The money they that was theirs in trust accounts and this was part of the nuclear deal. Iran abided by the deal terms, Trump tore it up thinking he can get a a better.

 

Also, we have been sanctioning the Iran economy for 40 years basically. It stunted their economic development  for sure, but it only goes so far. They can still sell their oil in the market and the UAE is the second largest trading partner.

 

Besides, Trump  wanted to make a deal with Iran -then Israel started dropping bombs

"Iran abided by the deal terms" - huh?  Arming its proxies to attack and harm Israel and its citizens is OK in your eyes?  What planet are some of you living on?  There are many issues that have a lot of grey; this one is black and white.

Edited July 17, 2025 by 73 Reds
spelling

[changegonnacome]

14 hours ago, cubsfan said:

the West

 

Hate to break it to you - there is no West coiliation here..........its the United States and Israel acting unilaterally & pre-emptively against Iran.

 

'the West' from Berlin to Birmingham......still can't quite understand why the hell Trump tore up the first JCPOA.......and were hopeful/anxious for him to re-sign v2.0 and put an emerging nuclear proliferation nightmare to bed for a decade at least.

 

1 hour ago, 73 Reds said:

"Iran abided by the deal terms" - huh?

 

You should look at the JCPOA - it was a narrow deal designed to stop Iran's nuclear program and subjecting them to an inspections regime that guaranteed they would not get a nuke. I didn't see any nukes getting threatened at Israel during this twelve day war so I'm going to assume the deal was successful.

 

Starting from about the same place & much less resources.....North Korea has a bomb......and Iran does not.....black and white as you would say....on this narrow issue the JCPOA was a success.....indeed Israel's ability to open up a full scale offensive military operation against Iran is because Iran abided by the terms of the JCPOA (one can now argue foolishly on their part)

 

1 hour ago, 73 Reds said:

Arming its proxies to attack and harm Israel and its citizens is OK in your eyes?  What planet are some of you living on?  There are many issues that have a lot of grey; this one is black and white.

 

Iran has been causing mischief & murder in the middle east since the revolution......nobody here is defending them or that.....but @73 Reds I'll re-state a nuanced point that nobody likes to engage with..........sometimes a low level proxy attack environment with no forward momentum on the Iran's core nuke program (as bad as it is) is actually in the BEST interests of Israel and global nuclear non-proliferation....as the alternative is much worse.

 

You may dislike Obama & Biden.......I have serious issues with both in the realm of foreign affairs for sure......but what I think we can both agree on is that they were politicians of the first order......this is not a matter of opinion........to become the nominee of your party and to get elected to the White House, by definition, is an act of first order politicking .

 

Ok with that idea established. I always pay attention when a politician does something that is deeply unpopular with the country, with its base and that is not good politics and will hurt their popularity and re-election chances while giving their political opponents ammunition to fire at them. Doing something deeply unpopular like that is not done lightly by politicians - every alternative path and every alternative scenario was explored and deemed to be worse, much worse. This is generally the only time when politicians are willing to do deeply unpopular things.

 

I think most people can agree on the above two statements on top of which we can return to the subject at hand - enriching Iran by any mechanism (cash, unfreezing, sanctions relief) is just TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE politics.....it loses you votes, it gives your political enemies ammunition to fire at you.......agree? 

 

Now why did two first rate politicians (Obama & Biden) examine the situation in the Middle East re: Iran & their nuclear aspirations........and conclude that doing something deeply unpopular with the country, that would hurt their election chances, hurt their party & embolden their political opponents was in the FINAL accounting the best path forward? 

 

Answer > all the alternative options we're just WAY worse.

 

We are now in the alternative options corridor here......and Obama and Biden will get the answer to the political question you can be sure they grappled with.....should they have given Iran money, signed the JCPOA as damaging and as bad politics as it was.....we're their advisors right that what lay behind door No.2 was just a way worse option that would potentially cost the US hundreds of billions of dollars & potentially many American lives lost to pursue an outcome that was uncertain i.e. could the US in a full scale war with Iran successfully topple the regime in time to stop them getting a bomb i.e. another forever war.

 

We are going to find out.

 

Edited July 17, 2025 by changegonnacome

[gfp]

You've got to admit - the new POTUS really has a way with understated class and style.  Stealth wealth for the win

 

[changegonnacome]

2 hours ago, gfp said:

new POTUS really has a way with understated class and style.

 

The new format is quite hilarious too......Trump invites world leader to WH, they sit down for questions....but unlike all previous admins where questions from the gathered press had to, in the main, stay on topic i.e. the bilateral relationship between the USA & country XYZ who was visiting. Now its a free for all.

 

Now a foreign leader sits down beside POTUS for an hour and effectively is forced to attend a Trump rally where they get asked basically no questions....and have to listen to him drone on about Jerome Powell, how even though he used to party with Jeffrey Epstein and Howard Lutnick his Commerce Secretary shared a wall with Epstein in NYC (they we're direct adjoining neighbors) that the press should stop talking about him even though he cant seem too!?!?!??

 

I likened it recently to inviting someone to your house so that they can watch you have a fight with your wife. Its hilarious. Look at the posture of the poor World leader above....I'm sure he started sitting up right and then slid further and further as he had to listen to stuff that has nothing to do with him.

[gfp]

At this point, if your meeting goes better than Zelenskyy's it is a win

Edited July 17, 2025 by gfp

[cubsfan]

16 minutes ago, TB said:

Ken Langone (founder Home Depot) says the current President may be one of the best. He is 90 years old and hopes he can live another 90 years. He is that optimistic about the future.

 

 

He's right. He will go down in history as the greatest US President in decades.

 

[whiskybravo]

He is addressing so many things in border control, energy, rare earths, etc.  Also pharmaceuticals, raise your hand if you think it’s a good idea for a large percentage of active pharmaceutical ingredients (APIs) sold in America to originate in China.  China manufacturers a little under a quarter of drugs sold in the United States.  A little under 50% of generic pharmaceuticals sold in America are manufactured in India.  India sources about 70% of their APIs from China including antibiotics, statins, and anti ulcer meds.  70-95% of over the counter Ibuprofen, hydrocortisone, and acetaminophen are manufactured in China.  

[whiskybravo]

For that matter anybody against MAHA?  RFK Jr wants to address synthetic chemicals and ultra processed additives in the food chain and shift toward whole unprocessed foods.   Shouldn’t we address the regulatory capture food and agriculture companies enjoy in the face of obesity and chronic disease.

[dwy000]

2 minutes ago, whiskybravo said:

For that matter anybody against MAHA?  RFK Jr wants to address synthetic chemicals and ultra processed additives in the food chain and shift toward whole unprocessed foods.   Shouldn’t we address the regulatory capture food and agriculture companies enjoy in the face of obesity and chronic disease.

I thought Republicans were against the nanny state. 

[dwy000]

2 hours ago, cubsfan said:

 

He's right. He will go down in history as the greatest US President in decades.

 

Except for the whole pedophilia thing.  

[cubsfan]

18 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

Except for the whole pedophilia thing.  

 

Oh, you mean Clinton's buddy Epstein?

[Spekulatius]

22 minutes ago, whiskybravo said:

For that matter anybody against MAHA?  RFK Jr wants to address synthetic chemicals and ultra processed additives in the food chain and shift toward whole unprocessed foods.   Shouldn’t we address the regulatory capture food and agriculture companies enjoy in the face of obesity and chronic disease.

It’s the right thing to do

[Parsad]

46 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

Except for the whole pedophilia thing.  

 

28 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Oh, you mean Clinton's buddy Epstein?

 

Neither Trump, nor Clinton, will escape their lewd behavior...so no need to compare them.  Cheers!

[Parsad]

Trump kills another critic...thanks to buddy Larry Ellison:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/17/media/cbs-cancels-stephen-colbert

 

Historic Late Show will end after next season.  Bye, bye Stephen Colbert!  Cheers!

[changegonnacome]

1 hour ago, cubsfan said:

buddy Epstein

 

If Clinton was buddys with Epstein - Donald and Epstein we're blood brothers. Breaking WSJ below, the plot thickens - 

 

Jeffrey Epstein’s Friends Sent Him Bawdy Letters for a 50th Birthday Album. One Was From Donald Trump -

https://www.wsj.com/politics/trump-jeffrey-epstein-birthday-letter-we-have-certain-things-in-common-f918d796?mod=hp_lead_pos7

 

"Happy Birthday — and may every day be another wonderful secret.

 

Donald"

 

You have to laugh in a way over Trump's vain attempt to distance himself from the Epstein case the last few days......thought he as acting very weird...with all the hoax stuff.......it was of course cause he was contacted by the WSJ about his "may every day be another wonderful secret" letter to Epstein for his birthday....where he drew a naked lady.....and scribbled Donald in a way that would mimic pubes......lovely.

 

My favourite recent denial the last two days though was when he was standing beside Howard Lutnick, Commerce Sectary.......this is Howard Lutnick who shared a wall with Jeffrey Epstein in New York.....they lived right beside each other. What a weird mix of folks this administration is....one half who knew Epstein intimately and the other half conspiracy theorists who were convinced the democrats would be taken down the by the files if only they we're released.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2025 by changegonnacome

[Xerxes]

On 7/14/2025 at 10:58 PM, Xerxes said:

Carney personal investment has been disclosed

 

 

 

[Spekulatius]

MAGA is big into conspiracies. Deep state, chemtrails, 5G vaccines. The Epstein files fits right in and the more Trump tries to defuse this,  the more the Streisand effect plays out:

 

 

Edited July 18, 2025 by Spekulatius

[dwy000]

1 hour ago, Spekulatius said:

MAGA is big into conspiracies. Deep state, chemtrails, 5G vaccines. The Epstein files fits right in and the more Trump tries to defuse this,  the more the Streisand effect plays out:

 

 

The odds he actually sues them and risks going thru discovery are approximately zero. 

[Parsad]

Trump lies like a sociopath!  Here he tells a whopper of a story about his uncle teaching the Unibomber at MIT.  His uncle died in 1985, and Ted Kaszynski wasn't identified as the Unibomber until 1996...yet Trump says he talked to his uncle about teaching Kaszynski, the Unibomber.  His uncle also taught at MIT, while Kaszynski went to Harvard...never MIT.  Cheers!