Mr. Trump's Proposal for an Infrastructure Plan

[John Hjorth]

It is here, today.

 

Bloomberg [2018.02.12]: Trump Sends His Infrastructure Plan to Skeptical Congress.

 

The basic source - the plan itself: The White House: Legislative Outline for Rebuilding Infrastructure in America.

 

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Happy reading!

[DTEJD1997]

Hey all:

 

There is a lot of work that needs to be done in the USA....

 

This is ESPECIALLY true in the industrial Midwest, particularly Michigan.

 

Our roads & bridges are falling apart.  In the last two winters, my vehicles have been damaged MULTIPLE times from the poor road conditions.  I am not the only one, most of my friends and family members have damage to their vehicles as well.

 

Some bridges are in SHOCKINGLY bad repair.  Support pillars are crumbling to pieces.  Not every bridge is like this, but a surprising amount are, especially in the city core.

 

I doubt the Detroit area is the only area needing substantial rework & repair.

[Cardboard]

Canada is the same and after some overpass pieces have fallen on cars and even killed passengers a couple of years ago they have started making repairs.

 

I would think that Detroit and all areas subject to deep freeze followed by warm summers are more subject to infrastructure damage. Steel reinforced concrete combined with large changes in temperature and salt to melt ice is not a good combination.

 

Cardboard

[DTEJD1997]

Canada is the same and after some overpass pieces have fallen on cars and even killed passengers a couple of years ago they have started making repairs.

 

I would think that Detroit and all areas subject to deep freeze followed by warm summers are more subject to infrastructure damage. Steel reinforced concrete combined with large changes in temperature and salt to melt ice is not a good combination.

 

Cardboard

 

Detroit is indeed subject to "deep freeze" weather.  This winter has been particularly rough.  The weather is obviously difficult on the roads...HOWEVER, the roads in Michigan (Detroit) are orders or magnitude WORSE than roads in Ohio and Indiana.  Ohio & Indiana have similar weather conditions as Michigan.

 

There are few factors I think that make Michigan roads worse.

 

A). Michigan has a LOT of truck traffic.  Additionally, these trucks are allowed to carry more weight than anywhere else in the country.  Truck weights are limited to 164,000 lbs. which are the highest in N. America.

 

B). A lot of the roads are VERY old...Michigan has some of the oldest freeways in the country.  The first freeway in America was opened in 1942 in Highland Park (suburb of Detroit).

 

C). Michigan has a lower standard for road thickness and the roads that are built, get built to an inferior standard (as compared to other places)

 

D). Some of the freeways have EXCEPTIONALLY poor design.

 

E). An alarming number of politicians are crooked and/or feeble minded.

 

So we end up with exceptionally poor roads/infrastructure.  I think a lot of people in the area simply think that is a "normal" situation.  They don't realize it does not have to be that way....

 

[hillfronter83]

Hey all:

 

There is a lot of work that needs to be done in the USA....

 

This is ESPECIALLY true in the industrial Midwest, particularly Michigan.

 

Our roads & bridges are falling apart.  In the last two winters, my vehicles have been damaged MULTIPLE times from the poor road conditions.  I am not the only one, most of my friends and family members have damage to their vehicles as well.

 

Some bridges are in SHOCKINGLY bad repair.  Support pillars are crumbling to pieces.  Not every bridge is like this, but a surprising amount are, especially in the city core.

 

I doubt the Detroit area is the only area needing substantial rework & repair.

 

It's not a question of whether the infrastructures need improvement. It is how we will pay for them! IMHO, this should be the priority instead of the tax cut.

[John Hjorth]

Canada is the same and after some overpass pieces have fallen on cars and even killed passengers a couple of years ago they have started making repairs. ...

 

This reads really concerning, Cardboard. Is it more or less the same situation in the different provinces of Canada, or are there differences among provinces?

[scorpioncapital]

"it's not a question of whether the infrastructures need improvement. It is how we will pay for them! "

 

Not at all...I have lived and know several countries that have a very low flat income tax (<= 15%) and no capital gains tax (0-5%) and has good infrastructure that runs efficiently. So how it can it be justified to pay 30 to 50% tax and have crumbling infrastructure? It is a question of waste and incompetence, possibly redistributing the funds in the wrong direction, not money.

 

[rkbabang]

Canada is the same and after some overpass pieces have fallen on cars and even killed passengers a couple of years ago they have started making repairs. ...

 

This reads really concerning, Cardboard. Is it more or less the same situation in the different provinces of Canada, or are there differences among provinces?

 

Back when I lived in MA the state decided to do an experiment by making a section of an interstate highway concrete rather than asphalt.  With the freezing and warming that happens in New England you can imagine what happened next.  A lot of cars where damaged, a few people were injured and one person eventually died when trucks started kicking up chunks of concrete and sending it flying through car windshields of drivers unlucky enough to be driving behind them.  They had to tear up the whole section and repave it with asphalt the way it should have been done to begin with.  Because it is government no one is ever personally sued/punished for this type of negligence.  This was right near where I lived at the time which is why I remember it.  Here's a story I found about it: http://www.thesunchronicle.com/state-to-repave-i--where-motorists-cars-hit-by/article_1341d126-d761-55b4-89cb-ec5827b1df42.html

 

[DTEJD1997]

Hey all:

 

There is a lot of work that needs to be done in the USA....

 

This is ESPECIALLY true in the industrial Midwest, particularly Michigan.

 

Our roads & bridges are falling apart.  In the last two winters, my vehicles have been damaged MULTIPLE times from the poor road conditions.  I am not the only one, most of my friends and family members have damage to their vehicles as well.

 

Some bridges are in SHOCKINGLY bad repair.  Support pillars are crumbling to pieces.  Not every bridge is like this, but a surprising amount are, especially in the city core.

 

I doubt the Detroit area is the only area needing substantial rework & repair.

 

It's not a question of whether the infrastructures need improvement. It is how we will pay for them! IMHO, this should be the priority instead of the tax cut.

 

How will we pay for it?

 

I'm confused!  What happened to all the gas taxes that we pay?  The state income taxes? Vehicle registration taxes & fees, the local (city) income taxes, the gas tax that was raised a year ago?  Maybe property taxes (some of the highest in the country)?  What about the sales tax?  What about the lottery?  What about all the taxes the casino pay?

 

Where does the "personal property" tax that businesses pay go?  I never knew this existed until I had to file/deal with it a few weeks ago!

 

OR what about all the money the government gets for water/sewer?  My father had a $3,200 monthly water bill.

 

Perhaps all branches of government need to learn to do MORE for LESS and at a better QUALITY level?

 

The private sector has had to do this for decades...

[John Hjorth]

In all honesty, today I regret the topic title as the OP. The topic title is a far stretch. I started the topic to get attention here on CoBF to this initiative, that is now on the move, without having read just one line in the document.

 

I have read some of it today. Basically, no numbers about financing. Still, somehow the document makes sense to me. One has to start with the regulatory framework to get this thing up in the air.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

So, I hope that we can just continue to discuss this initiative - including sharing af background information - going forward with this topic as placeholder, despite it was started with a foul topic title.

 

I also hope that we can keep it relatively non-political, more with an investment angle. To me, with regard to that, so far so good. I always enjoy to read what my fellow North American board members think about society and living conditions.

[LC]

There are few factors I think that make Michigan roads worse.

 

A). Michigan has a LOT of truck traffic.  Additionally, these trucks are allowed to carry more weight than anywhere else in the country.  Truck weights are limited to 164,000 lbs. which are the highest in N. America.

 

B). A lot of the roads are VERY old...Michigan has some of the oldest freeways in the country.  The first freeway in America was opened in 1942 in Highland Park (suburb of Detroit).

 

C). Michigan has a lower standard for road thickness and the roads that are built, get built to an inferior standard (as compared to other places)

 

D). Some of the freeways have EXCEPTIONALLY poor design.

 

E). An alarming number of politicians are crooked and/or feeble minded.

 

So we end up with exceptionally poor roads/infrastructure.  I think a lot of people in the area simply think that is a "normal" situation.  They don't realize it does not have to be that way....

 

Sounds like lax regulation has caused problems.

[TorontoRaptorsFan]

Canada is the same and after some overpass pieces have fallen on cars and even killed passengers a couple of years ago they have started making repairs.

 

I would think that Detroit and all areas subject to deep freeze followed by warm summers are more subject to infrastructure damage. Steel reinforced concrete combined with large changes in temperature and salt to melt ice is not a good combination.

 

Cardboard

 

Detroit is indeed subject to "deep freeze" weather.  This winter has been particularly rough.  The weather is obviously difficult on the roads...HOWEVER, the roads in Michigan (Detroit) are orders or magnitude WORSE than roads in Ohio and Indiana.  Ohio & Indiana have similar weather conditions as Michigan.

 

There are few factors I think that make Michigan roads worse.

 

A). Michigan has a LOT of truck traffic.  Additionally, these trucks are allowed to carry more weight than anywhere else in the country.  Truck weights are limited to 164,000 lbs. which are the highest in N. America.

 

B). A lot of the roads are VERY old...Michigan has some of the oldest freeways in the country.  The first freeway in America was opened in 1942 in Highland Park (suburb of Detroit).

 

C). Michigan has a lower standard for road thickness and the roads that are built, get built to an inferior standard (as compared to other places)

 

D). Some of the freeways have EXCEPTIONALLY poor design.

 

E). An alarming number of politicians are crooked and/or feeble minded.

 

So we end up with exceptionally poor roads/infrastructure.  I think a lot of people in the area simply think that is a "normal" situation.  They don't realize it does not have to be that way....

 

I was in Michigan last month near the Ann Arbor area. I can attest that the highways and roads were the worst I have ever seen in North America. Pot holes everywhere...

[DTEJD1997]

Canada is the same and after some overpass pieces have fallen on cars and even killed passengers a couple of years ago they have started making repairs.

 

I would think that Detroit and all areas subject to deep freeze followed by warm summers are more subject to infrastructure damage. Steel reinforced concrete combined with large changes in temperature and salt to melt ice is not a good combination.

 

Cardboard

 

Detroit is indeed subject to "deep freeze" weather.  This winter has been particularly rough.  The weather is obviously difficult on the roads...HOWEVER, the roads in Michigan (Detroit) are orders or magnitude WORSE than roads in Ohio and Indiana.  Ohio & Indiana have similar weather conditions as Michigan.

 

There are few factors I think that make Michigan roads worse.

 

A). Michigan has a LOT of truck traffic.  Additionally, these trucks are allowed to carry more weight than anywhere else in the country.  Truck weights are limited to 164,000 lbs. which are the highest in N. America.

 

B). A lot of the roads are VERY old...Michigan has some of the oldest freeways in the country.  The first freeway in America was opened in 1942 in Highland Park (suburb of Detroit).

 

C). Michigan has a lower standard for road thickness and the roads that are built, get built to an inferior standard (as compared to other places)

 

D). Some of the freeways have EXCEPTIONALLY poor design.

 

E). An alarming number of politicians are crooked and/or feeble minded.

 

So we end up with exceptionally poor roads/infrastructure.  I think a lot of people in the area simply think that is a "normal" situation.  They don't realize it does not have to be that way....

 

I was in Michigan last month near the Ann Arbor area. I can attest that the highways and roads were the worst I have ever seen in North America. Pot holes everywhere...

 

Ann Arbor is in EXCELLENT condition compared to the East Side of Detroit!