Guys vs Gals

[Guest jeffswaldron]

I am curious to compare the results to those of the same question that was asked in 2012 (and reaction).

 

Also, does anyone have favorite women investors they recommend?  I recently found Lauren Templeton to be insightful and hope to broaden my investing horizon.

[DTEJD1997]

I am curious to compare the results to those of the same question that was asked in 2012 (and reaction).

 

Also, does anyone have favorite women investors they recommend?  I recently found Lauren Templeton to be insightful and hope to broaden my investing horizon.

I wonder if there are even any women that post here regularly.

 

In my personal life, I've met VERY few women that invest, almost none.

 

I have met plenty of women that simply have no concept of economics, investing or much "money sense" and this included female attorneys that I've worked with.  Additionally, some of the attorneys in the worst possible positions imaginable have all been women (with one notable exception).

 

An example...one female attorney knew I was an investor and wanted to know how/what to invest in.  She said she was intrigued by penny stocks, as she got a lot of emails on those and couldn't lose too much money.  I replied that I knew of a little known, little traded telecommunications that payed a 9% dividend and might go up in value (NORSB).  Back then it was trading in the low 50's per share.  That price literally took her breath away and she asked what was the minimum investment....I replied whatever you are comfortable with.  I'm thinking maybe $1k or $2k...something like that (25 or 50 shares).  She was thinking something LESS than 1 share!!!!!!

 

Oh, the stories I could tell about female attorneys...

[GregS]

Some of the best attorneys I ever worked with were female.  Some of the worst, too.  Same thing for men.  Hmmm...it's almost like gender had nothing to do with it.

 

However, as an investor, I've never had one woman ask me about VRX, or SHLD, or ZINC.  Wow, men must be such lousy investors!  Keep your money from them!

 

Seriously, just delete this thread.

[Jurgis]

Nothing changed. Same misogynistic attitudes. Not a single gal will admit that she's a gal. There's one or two still posting AFAIK.

[DTEJD1997]

Some of the best attorneys I ever worked with were female.  Some of the worst, too.  Same thing for men.  Hmmm...it's almost like gender had nothing to do with it.

 

However, as an investor, I've never had one woman ask me about VRX, or SHLD, or ZINC.  Wow, men must be such lousy investors!  Keep your money from them!

 

Seriously, just delete this thread.

The other thing I forgot to mention/bring up in that reply was that of the people (attorneys) I know who are HUNDREDS of thousands in debt from student loans tend to be women.  There are certainly lots of male attorneys who have large amounts of debt...but the ones who have TOTALLY wrecked lives, living at home with their parents (in their mid to late 30's), and no way out, have tended to be women. 

 

Perhaps that has something to do with the number of people enrolled in higher education tending to be women at this point.  I would posit that these women are somewhat behind the curve and are being taken advantage of...

[HJ]

I'm in the world of CLO's, bank loan managers.  There are not many woman who rise to the top of their respective organizations in the space.  However, the ones that do run their own shows are often very good, I'd argue better than their average male counterpart.  Likely some survivorship bias there.

[LC]

In the risk space the women I work with are very good. I would say better on average than the men I work with (myself probably included!)

 

In terms of investing, I have yet to see how gender matters. Anyone who can read Ben Graham has a shot, IMHO.

[DTEJD1997]

Hey all:

 

Just to be perfectly clear...I'm not saying that women CAN'T be good investors OR that they CAN'T be good with money OR that they CAN'T be good attorneys.  Of course some of them can...I'm just saying I personally have not seen that many.

 

That also appears to be reflected on this board...not a single poll respondent has identified themselves as being female...

[Gregmal]

Just from my own personal experience.

 

The smartest women I know let men handle investing for them.

 

The smartest men I know, some are very good at investing, some are very bad at investing, some let other people handle investing for them.

 

Wouldn't read too much into either though.

[Guest jeffswaldron]

Some of the best attorneys I ever worked with were female.  Some of the worst, too.  Same thing for men.  Hmmm...it's almost like gender had nothing to do with it.

 

However, as an investor, I've never had one woman ask me about VRX, or SHLD, or ZINC.  Wow, men must be such lousy investors!  Keep your money from them!

 

Seriously, just delete this thread.

 

I understand the topic comes with a lot of personal opinions and could spark additional discussion, but that was not my intention. I did a search to see if the topic was discussed previously and saw a poll from September 2012.  This made me wonder if the distribution has changed.

 

Personally, I would like to read or listen to the thoughts of some women investors -- I respect this board so I thought I could get some recommendations.

 

I don't care which gender is "better" at investing or anything for that matter.  I'm just an curious ignoramus.

 

 

[writser]

If anything, research suggests that women outperform on average. Men tend to be overconfident, they trade too much and put their savings in VRX or TSLA trying to hit it big.

 

As for this forum, I couldn't care less. I try to judge ideas, not posters.

[Guest jeffswaldron]

If anything, research suggests that women outperform on average. Men tend to be overconfident, they trade too much and put their savings in VRX or TSLA trying to hit it big.

 

As for this forum, I couldn't care less. I try to judge ideas, not posters.

 

The poll was dumb of me and adds no value to the forum.  I've shamed myself once again.

 

But I did have a sudden interest in learning from well-known women investors.  Maybe I just miss my mommy.

[GregS]

jeffswaldron,

 

I guess you weren't aware, but we had a thread some time ago (maybe a year or two) asking why there weren't more female investors.  The original poster was genuine but it descended into straight up misogyny with people coming up with reasons why women are terrible investors.  I think one guy ranted about his dumb ex-girlfriend.  Or maybe that was a different sexist thread.  Anyway, the thread finally got deleted after people started calling out the embarrassing crap.

 

And here we are, with DTED straight out of the gate posting a bunch of crap, including a gratuitous digression about female attorneys, without any irony, apparently, that his post reveals a total lack of analytic ability or self-awareness.  Or maybe people who post crap like that are straight up trolling for fun, but I'd suggest anyone like that go give HanA--holeSolo's apology a read and rethink their life.

 

I only know a few investors on this forum personally, all men, but others have noted there are women posting who would never reveal they are women.  I can't blame them.  I'm sure there are plenty of female entrepreneurs and engineers in Silicon Valley who would love to be able to hide their gender and be judged solely on ability.  Alas, that can't be done in the real world.  And we wonder why women don't want to go into fields like STEM or finance traditionally dominated by men.

 

Anyway, I'm sure your thread was honest, but the trolls have already come out.  I am an ally to women trying to push into fields like investing and won't hesitate to call out the crap.  I'm not doing it to convince anyone of anything, but to show that men are not of one mind on the topic.

[Pelagic]

Rather than the question of women in investing, I know several very shrewd female investors who don't participate in online discussions but will read them occasionally, I'd be interested in the prevalence of women on online discussion forums in general. This data seems to confirm something I've noticed across the web, that men are overrepresented in online discussions. Perhaps a sample set of CoBF offers little in the way of data on female investors but rather confirms that males are disproportionately represented in online forums - particularly when it comes to users willing to participate in silly polls  ;D Maybe we just get bored easier?  ::)

 

http://www.pewinternet.org/2015/08/19/mobile-messaging-and-social-media-2015/2015-08-19_social-media-update_04/

 

Anyone interested in further data collection could read Quora's various investing topics where users are (or at least supposed to be) using their real names and tally male vs. female questions/answers/comments.

[Guest longinvestor]

Threads like this are helpful to me to expand my ignore list. So are political pages.

[Guest Schwab711]

I regret starting the thread mentioned below. I agree with GregS. I don't see how trying this again will benefit anyone.

 

All I can add is that since starting that thread, I've learned there are a ton of female investors with a similar distribution of skill as men (as expected). They are at major and mid-major hedge funds, PE, and VC firms. Depending on the financial sub-field, women may even outnumber men. They are the brains behind many ideas that folks here think is the next great idea.

 

In general, they do not openly participate on online forums or in person at the same rate as men for all sorts of reasons. A big recurring reason seems to be the general lack of respect from both men and other women (though men tend to be the bigger thorn). There are plenty of papers, personal experiences, and the like written on this topic. Please seek out those before contributing to this thread.

 

Also, read GregS's post below before posting. I really regret bringing up the topic before.

 

 

jeffswaldron,

 

I guess you weren't aware, but we had a thread some time ago (maybe a year or two) asking why there weren't more female investors.  The original poster was genuine but it descended into straight up misogyny with people coming up with reasons why women are terrible investors.  I think one guy ranted about his dumb ex-girlfriend.  Or maybe that was a different sexist thread.  Anyway, the thread finally got deleted after people started calling out the embarrassing crap.

 

And here we are, with DTED straight out of the gate posting a bunch of crap, including a gratuitous digression about female attorneys, without any irony, apparently, that his post reveals a total lack of analytic ability or self-awareness.  Or maybe people who post crap like that are straight up trolling for fun, but I'd suggest anyone like that go give HanA--holeSolo's apology a read and rethink their life.

 

I only know a few investors on this forum personally, all men, but others have noted there are women posting who would never reveal they are women.  I can't blame them.  I'm sure there are plenty of female entrepreneurs and engineers in Silicon Valley who would love to be able to hide their gender and be judged solely on ability.  Alas, that can't be done in the real world.  And we wonder why women don't want to go into fields like STEM or finance traditionally dominated by men.

 

Anyway, I'm sure your thread was honest, but the trolls have already come out.  I am an ally to women trying to push into fields like investing and won't hesitate to call out the crap.  I'm not doing it to convince anyone of anything, but to show that men are not of one mind on the topic.

 

[Gregmal]

God, add this to the list. Just like the threads on politics, there's 3 types of commenters. The genuinely curious, the instigators, and the "oh no we can't talk about this" crybaby bunch.

 

I didn't think the topic is out of line. It's a pretty fascinating subject matter actually when you start looking at the psychology of it and specifically if certain types of temperaments are more prevalent. As someone mentioned, I've met some extremely bright women whom kick ass when it comes to risk management. I've run into a number of female investors who seem just as capable as the men I know. They're just much rarer to find and I personally know and communicate predominantly with men. This was a male dominated business for a long time; this shouldn't be shocking to anyone. I think the bigger issue is recognizing the skew in numbers, and then realizing that investing as a professional takes a certain mindset that hardly comes natural for most. As I mentioned in my first post, the worst investors I've ever met are men. Probably the entire top and bottom 10. It's no slight to any woman out there. It's completely unrelated actually. Just a bi-product of their being more men in the financial world, and as a result the people whom are promotional and well known or even infamous, thus tend to be men.

[DW]

http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/08/investing/women-better-investors-than-men/index.html

 

Women, in contrast, tend to be "buy and hold" investors. It's exactly the advice famous money gurus like Warren Buffett and Jack Bogle give people: Put your money into cheap index funds and then don't touch it for years -- or decades.

[GregS]

God, add this to the list. Just like the threads on politics, there's 3 types of commenters. The genuinely curious, the instigators, and the "oh no we can't talk about this" crybaby bunch.

 

I didn't think the topic is out of line. It's a pretty fascinating subject matter actually when you start looking at the psychology of it and specifically if certain types of temperaments are more prevalent. As someone mentioned, I've met some extremely bright women whom kick ass when it comes to risk management. I've run into a number of female investors who seem just as capable as the men I know. They're just much rarer to find and I personally know and communicate predominantly with men. This was a male dominated business for a long time; this shouldn't be shocking to anyone. I think the bigger issue is recognizing the skew in numbers, and then realizing that investing as a professional takes a certain mindset that hardly comes natural for most. As I mentioned in my first post, the worst investors I've ever met are men. Probably the entire top and bottom 10. It's no slight to any woman out there. It's completely unrelated actually. Just a bi-product of their being more men in the financial world, and as a result the people whom are promotional and well known or even infamous, thus tend to be men.

 

I typically ignore the political threads.  There's not a lot of actual discussion that takes place, just a lot of trolling, stereotyping and, eventually, shouting.  But the threads on gender in fact make the issue they are discussing worse as they give voice to the types of BS opinions that have held back women in the first place.

 

I don't blame those curious about the issue.  I would just recommend they talk to women they personally know rather than discuss on anon boards.

 

- GregS, Unapologetic Crybaby

[John Hjorth]

I didn't think the topic is out of line. It's a pretty fascinating subject matter actually when you start looking at the psychology of it and specifically if certain types of temperaments are more prevalent.

 

Personally, I agree with Greg here, and to be totally honest, very.

 

Jeff did not do anything wrong by opening this poll.

 

Please be nice to newcomers on this board, or this board might perhaps die no later than when you die! [<-Something to think about?]

[thowed]

Susie Rippingall, Scottish Oriental Investment Trust

Claire Barnes, Apollo

Jenny Jones, Schroder US Mid and Small Caps

 

Some of the best investors in the world are women.

 

My personal take is that not many women go into fund management for the same reason I haven't - there are too many over-confident idiots around, and the decent, smart people mostly exist on the margins.  This to me is the real issue, not gender.

[rb]

I think that when thinking about female investors, for people on this board Meryl Witmer should quickly come to mind. While there are less women than men in the industry there are plenty of women. Many do not own large headline seeking hedge funds, but they're out there managing money. And just like with any other profession there are brilliant and dumb female investors just as there are brilliant and dumb male investors. Unfortunately, just like in any other profession, in investing the dumb outnumber the brilliant and that's not restricted by gender.

 

A personal anecdote for what it's worth, before i went out on my own I worked in banking my whole life and I've only had female bosses, and some of these were at some seriously senior levels. They were all super smart, sharp, and professional and I've learned a lot from them.

 

Personally I would love it if we could get some more female members on this board cause you know... nobody likes a sausage fest.

[LongHaul]

Freedom of thought and expression are important.

I think the topic is interesting and worthy of discussion. 

The genders are wired differently.

 

One thing I have observed, and I have no stats, is that I think men tend to be much more obsessive about things than women.  % of obsessive men I know is much greater than women I know.  I see this in little kids too.  Generally women tend to be a lot less interested in business and finance. 

 

So if women (or anyone for that matter) are less interested in a topic, then they will be surpassed by those who are super interested in it. 

 

[LC]

One thing I have observed, and I have no stats, is that I think men tend to be much more obsessive about things than women.  % of obsessive men I know is much greater than women I know.  I see this in little kids too.  Generally women tend to be a lot less interested in business and finance. 

 

So if women (or anyone for that matter) are less interested in a topic, then they will be surpassed by those who are super interested in it.

Interesting theory, but let me add that sometimes being overly obsessed is not a good thing to achieve the best outcome. Missing the forest for the trees kind of thing.

[Patmo]

I'm going to guess that it's probably kind of like poker or chess, where there is just a lower volume of participants that are female but the ability level distribution is about the same as men. There is probably a woman who is a world top 20 level total shark we've never heard of. There is probably not many more, just because there are a ton less females in the game and that's how probabilities go...

 

Think Jennifer Harman or Judit Polgar, to keep with the microcosm comparisons