Banana republic

[Desert_Rat]

Because you would rather have govt pay more for prescription drugs??

 

"In a tweet shortly before 9 a.m. New York time, Trump said he’s working on a “new system where there will be competition in the drug industry.”

 

Man the pitchforks! This is the last straw!!

[Peregrine]

Lol - this thread is quickly devolving into past shitstorms.

 

Quick question: does Cardboard contribute anything to this board other than threads like these? Those 1,000+ posts can't be all logical fallacies, false equivalencies and reality distortion.

[Hawks]

As I read these posts, it looks like America has entered into a period of extreme polarization in recent times. It's like 2 sides of the political spectrum have dug into their positions and will not give an inch. Some posters here who did not agree with some points made were called  a "Dem puppet" or "leftist demagogue".  If you post actual stories with facts and sources about real people, they say you should know more about the media and how they report news.

Re Khizr Khan and the Australian author Mem Fox, these stories have been reported widely. I will name some sources you can check for yourself: CTV news (private, non govt funded Canadian television network, CBC (a public television network), The Independent (British newspaper) and American news outlets like the Boston Globe and ABC. I checked Fox News but didn't see anything (but may have missed it if reported by them; please advise if they did).

Personally, here in Canada, I have voted Conservative (leans right), Liberal and NDP (leans left). I vote depending upon the platform and individuals who are running to try and make an educated vote. I was not a fan of Bill Clinton, thought Eisenhower made a brilliant move starting the U.S. interstate system, Abraham Lincoln made very difficult decisions and history has treated him well. And in 2016, I really didn't think much of any of the candidates running for the Republican or Democratic ticket. I am not a card carrying supporter of any particular political party.

We all have biases to some degree Cardboard. Travelling from Canada to Europe to work in the 1970's, I learned a great deal about how other societies went about governing their people, what history meant to them and how it shows up in their policies and thinking to this day, how they run their cities and traffic flows which were very different than my own experience back home. I could go on and on re my learning experiences. And from my 3 years overseas, I know it changed how I thought about things and life; and I feel to this day that I am the better for it.

I have no desire to change a Republican into a Democrat or vice versa. From the viewpoint of someone not in the U.S., I have tried to point out and am trying to figure out why certain events are occurring.

One last thing: I would really like someone to explain to me why Saudi Arabia was not on the list of countries that President Trump signed yesterday. My understanding is that most (all?) of the terrorists re 9/11 were raised in Saudi Arabia. And Bin Laden was too. The last time America was attacked with such ferocity was Pearl Harbour and the U.S. went to war vs the Axis powers.

[Cardboard]

"Some posters here who did not agree with some points made were called  a "Dem puppet" or "leftist demagogue".

 

Funny Hawks that you do not point out the other insults. How do you call this?

 

"Those 1,000+ posts can't be all logical fallacies, false equivalencies and reality distortion."

 

"When you point out the gaping holes in Rat and Cardboard's arguments, they look foolish."

 

All I am asking for is data. Statistical evidence indicating that since Trump things have really taken a turn for the worst at the border in terms of uncalled for detention and rejection since that is what you guys are claiming.

 

If you guys are that superior in your arguments as some are claiming to be, then you should have no problem producing this evidence. And no, highlighting from the media the case of two to three people having been detained, questioned does not count since I could give you that many that have had their cell searched, detained for hours for no apparent reason other than the officer suspecting that they were working in the U.S. without paperwork well before this last election.

 

Cardboard

 

 

[Hawks]

And your explanation re why Saudi Arabia was not on the executive order is?  I am not interested in debating what your explanation is, but I would appreciate your point of view on this question.

[RichardGibbons]

They probably look at your arguments too and realize that you are a leftist demagogue.

 

Demagogue?  You view me as a political leader now? Interesting.

 

I think you're vastly overestimating my influence. Instead of highlighting me, I'd suggest that you use Dick Cheney and Mussolini as examples of leftist demagogues. They're to the left of you and at least they are politicians.

 

FWIW, I actually don't view the incidents discussed on this thread as anything more than anecdotes for now.

 

That said, it has been widely reported that when Trump signed his presidential order banning people with Visas coming from the six undesirable countries, lots of people with Visas were held up at the border.  I don't have the stats for Visa holders being denied entry in Q1 versus every other Q1 on record, but I think it's pretty strange pretending something widely reported didn't happen simply because some random Canadian on a message board cannot provide you with confidential US Immigration Service statistics.

[RichardGibbons]

Quick question: does Cardboard contribute anything to this board other than threads like these? Those 1,000+ posts can't be all logical fallacies, false equivalencies and reality distortion.

 

I think Cardboard contributes--he talks about stocks frequently, certainly far more often than me. And he is useful in espousing his ideology here in the absence of a right-winger who can actually make coherent arguments.  (As I might have said before, one of the most annoying things about Fox News is that they have convinced the right that the soundness of their argument is irrelevant. That's a big loss, because the right wing has some good things to say.)

 

That said, Cardboard does get it right sometimes--so far most of these immigration examples are anecdotes, not data, and in Trump's America, people are far more likely to blame Trump for their border misfortunes than random bad luck.  (Not to say that it is just bad luck--I'd bet that things have changed--but this thread doesn't provide evidence.)

 

The question I'm still struggling with is evaluating Cardboard's non-political posts. Like, are these logical fallacies and false equivalencies confined to political discussions where his ideology trumps reason?  Or should we assume that his reasoning is poor all the time, and weigh his ideas accordingly?

[rb]

All I am asking for is data. Statistical evidence indicating that since Trump things have really taken a turn for the worst at the border in terms of uncalled for detention and rejection since that is what you guys are claiming.

 

If you guys are that superior in your arguments as some are claiming to be, then you should have no problem producing this evidence. And no, highlighting from the media the case of two to three people having been detained, questioned does not count since I could give you that many that have had their cell searched, detained for hours for no apparent reason other than the officer suspecting that they were working in the U.S. without paperwork well before this last election.

 

Cardboard

Well actually what you're asking for is impossible because the US doesn't track what you're looking for so there are no statistics. I mean in the US they track everything except for how many people are turned away, how many people are searched/interrogated, how many people are detained. Funny that eh.

[no_free_lunch]

The country list was chosen because obama originally came up w the list.  I dont think anyone is arguing it is ideal.  Just more politically palatable.

[Desert_Rat]

And your explanation re why Saudi Arabia was not on the executive order is?  I am not interested in debating what your explanation is, but I would appreciate your point of view on this question.

 

This question again? that it's being asked is proof positive the posters asking it listen exclusively to fake news, like CNN and MSNBC, although, to be fair, some American sites work it incorrectly to their advantage too.

 

The six countries; Syria, Libya, Iran, Yemen, Somalia and Sudan are not cooperative vetting their people, they have no civil authority. Hence, even they wouldn't know the validity of an emigrant. SA has a long established king and administration that takes things like birth certificates seriously.

 

edit: -Iraq

[no_free_lunch]

Richardgibbons declaring yourself the victor , insulting cardboard and saying the right cant field an argument is very self righteous behavior. 

[RichardGibbons]

Richardgibbons declaring yourself the victor , insulting cardboard and saying the right cant field an argument is very self righteous behavior.

 

Hmm? You mean I shouldn't have said that cardboard adds value?  I actually gave an example of where I thought cardboard was correct.  (And, if you view this discussion as a "team sport"--which I assume you do since you think I'm declaring myself a victor--I essentially shot the ball into my own net, betraying my teammates, simply because I view intellectual honesty as both important and the thing that is completely lacking in American political discourse.)

 

I actually didn't mean to say that that the right wing can't field an argument in general--there are some people on the right who can make solid, convincing arguments.  Sorry that I phrased that poorly. I meant to say that the right isn't very good at fielding arguments here.  That's just like, my opinion, man.

 

The reason I'm saying the arguments on here from the right aren't very good here is because they have largely not provided evidence, and, when questioned on it, told their opponents that they needed to find it themselves.  And, to argue against the people they disagree with, they have essentially said "Obama did it first" as if it would be OK to ignore the sixth amendment simply because Obama ignored it first.

 

Of course, if you view those kinds of arguments as convincing, that's fine.  The right must have a very high opinion of Obama if they think Obama doing it first implies it was a good idea.

 

Thanks for pointing out that my behavior seems self-righteous to you.  Cardboard has called me a leftist demagogue, a devout Marxist, a deranged individual, and [mentally] sick, so I'm trying to figure out the sensible, fair way to respond to him. Thus, getting your feedback about my tone in my responses to him is helpful to me.

 

[physdude]

And your explanation re why Saudi Arabia was not on the executive order is?  I am not interested in debating what your explanation is, but I would appreciate your point of view on this question.

 

This question again? that it's being asked is proof positive the posters asking it listen exclusively to fake news, like CNN and MSNBC, although, to be fair, some American sites work it incorrectly to their advantage too.

 

The six countries; Syria, Iraq, Libya, Iran, Yemen, Somalia and Sudan are not cooperative vetting their people, they have no civil authority. Hence, even they wouldn't know the validity of an emigrant. SA has a long established king and administration that takes things like birth certificates seriously.

 

I thought Iraq is no longer on the list. Did they suddenly gain enlightenment on vetting or why where they removed from the list in such a short time?

[Mephistopheles]

This thread does suck because of the absurd analyses by certain posters as Richard pointed out.

 

As far as changing minds, and fact based arguing: I'll give an example of someone I disagree with incredibly (on gun control) - rkbabang. Still; I don't mind debating with this guy since he's civil and level headed. Hasn't changed my mind but has got me thinking at times and challenging my own beliefs.

[Mephistopheles]

You'll get that as soon as Watergate evidence against Nixon is revealed. Don't be naive. The issue is, do we believe it? damn straight we do.

 

Sean Spicer confirms that it was bullshit. Thoughts? Don't be naive.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA6EnrOGWU4

[Desert_Rat]

that's a CNN level comment there. No, no believes that Obama personally tapped Trumps devices and spent his off time recording it all.

 

Seriously. Obama applied thru fisa to bug trump associates involved with a russion bank, it was denied. He applied again and it was approved. Is the question with you really that it never happened or, instead, why was it approved? Id' be more concerned with the latter

 

[west]

Lol - this thread is quickly devolving into past shitstorms.

 

Quick question: does Cardboard contribute anything to this board other than threads like these? Those 1,000+ posts can't be all logical fallacies, false equivalencies and reality distortion.

 

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/investment-ideas/azp-pr-b-atlantic-power-corp-preferreds/

 

http://bit.ly/2mVOHfu

 

 

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/investment-ideas/vsn-veresen-inc/

 

http://bit.ly/2np33CE

 

 

And some other stuff that's gotten bought out.  Let us know when you come up with your first idea post, Frank.

 

Same goes to you, Mr. Gibbons.  I'm seeing you're a member since 2009, but you have no idea posts over the whole time.

 

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/profile/?area=showposts;sa=topics;u=107

 

[Peregrine]

Lol - this thread is quickly devolving into past shitstorms.

 

Quick question: does Cardboard contribute anything to this board other than threads like these? Those 1,000+ posts can't be all logical fallacies, false equivalencies and reality distortion.

 

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/investment-ideas/azp-pr-b-atlantic-power-corp-preferreds/

 

http://bit.ly/2mVOHfu

 

 

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/investment-ideas/vsn-veresen-inc/

 

http://bit.ly/2np33CE

 

 

And some other stuff that's gotten bought out.  Let us know when you come up with your first idea post, Frank.

 

Same goes to you, Mr. Gibbons.  I'm seeing you're a member since 2009, but you have no idea posts over the whole time.

 

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/profile/?area=showposts;sa=topics;u=107

 

Lol - my fault. My post was partly tongue-in-cheek and partly a reaction to seeing his name reappear whenever a Trump thread starts getting hot again. But thanks for correcting the record.

[RichardGibbons]

Same goes to you, Mr. Gibbons.  I'm seeing you're a member since 2009, but you have no idea posts over the whole time.

 

Hey, wow, funny!  What are the odds you'd figure it out only a week after I say it?

 

I think Cardboard contributes--he talks about stocks frequently, certainly far more often than me.

 

Some brilliant investigative reporting, west!

 

 

 

[west]

Lol - this thread is quickly devolving into past shitstorms.

 

Quick question: does Cardboard contribute anything to this board other than threads like these? Those 1,000+ posts can't be all logical fallacies, false equivalencies and reality distortion.

 

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/investment-ideas/azp-pr-b-atlantic-power-corp-preferreds/

 

http://bit.ly/2mVOHfu

 

 

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/investment-ideas/vsn-veresen-inc/

 

http://bit.ly/2np33CE

 

 

And some other stuff that's gotten bought out.  Let us know when you come up with your first idea post, Frank.

 

Same goes to you, Mr. Gibbons.  I'm seeing you're a member since 2009, but you have no idea posts over the whole time.

 

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/profile/?area=showposts;sa=topics;u=107

 

Lol - my fault. My post was partly tongue-in-cheek and partly a reaction to seeing his name reappear whenever a Trump thread starts getting hot again. But thanks for correcting the record.

 

No problem!  And I apologize if I came off a little too strong.  There have been a lot of good investors on this forum in the past that have been scared off by more... opinionated and loud members of the board.  For example, both Kraven and PlanMaestro, two very strong investors, were scared off a long time ago.  I was fortunate enough to learn from them, but younger investors won't be.  And it's a major loss to the board.

 

So anyway, I guess get a little bulldog-ish when people are coming on too aggressively against people I see as stronger investors...

 

I know politics affects investing results and all, so technically it's something that should be discussed.  However, I kind of wish we wouldn't.  At least here.  It's really taking away from what I think the key focus of this board should be: Finding and analyzing good stocks.

[Cigarbutt]

I’m new here.

My goal is to reach 100 posts and then to contribute to specific ideas.

The interesting part of this forum is to create investing goodwill by combining our higher thinking capacities. Isn’t it?

Respectful collision of ideas. Invert, always invert, some say.

When discussing politics, we tend perhaps to revert.

Here, a concept and a picture are worth a thousand words.

 

http://www.kheper.net/topics/intelligence/MacLean.htm

 

Can we stay at least at the primate level?

 

[Hawks]

I listen to CNN only occasionally but last nite I tuned into the CBO response to the Republican health care proposal to see what CNN was saying. So, for the first 20 minutes or so, they first presented the Republican Health Secretary pointing out what he thought about the CBO report, then they showed the Democratic response to the report. I thought that was fair and now knew what both sides thought in their initial responses.

Yet, on this topic so many times I hear "oh, that's just the CNN report or side" or words to that effect.

In other words, CNN only leans one way (ie Democrat)

So what was CNN supposed to do in this case - only report one point of view re CBO??

[Parsad]

Ok, thread is locked...move on folks, there's nothing to see here!  Cheers!