If American - which presidential candidate will you vote for? (Sept. Edition)

[muscleman]

The award winning reporter Sharyl Akitsonn wrote a book "stone walled" and it mentioned Benghazi many times. It is a appalling how it was mishandled.

 

When I see how Obama is busy on the golf course while LA was heavily flooded this year, I know he is incapable of handling Benghazi.

[rb]

The award winning reporter Sharyl Akitsonn wrote a book "stone walled" and it mentioned Benghazi many times. It is a appalling how it was mishandled.

 

When I see how Obama is busy on the golf course while LA was heavily flooded this year, I know he is incapable of handling Benghazi.

What's this whole thing with LA? The governor ask Obama and the presidential candidates not to come down because they would have to provide security which would detract from their efforts. All but one complied with the governor's request. FEMA was out there doing their job. What did you want Obama to do? Grab a bucket?

[JayGatsby]

The award winning reporter Sharyl Akitsonn wrote a book "stone walled" and it mentioned Benghazi many times. It is a appalling how it was mishandled.

 

When I see how Obama is busy on the golf course while LA was heavily flooded this year, I know he is incapable of handling Benghazi.

The movie 13 Hours was an interesting portrayal too. I don't know enough about the situation to really comment, but they claim to have made it as accurate as they could based on first hand interviews. Good movie as well.

 

[Investor20]

Hate to defend Hillary but she is a known commodity. No matter what you guys think, nothing has come out of Benghazi.

 

Nothing came out of Benghazi? 

 

a) An Ambassador got killed

b) Several American soldiers got killed

c) American govt thought it is smart to leave their Embassy open when every other country knew it is a dangerous place and NOT one government kept their consulate open - yes they may have some people come and go, but not like US.  Talk about judgement right there.

 

And last but not the least

d) And the first thing that occurs to Hillary is to lie about it. She writes on the night of the attack to her daughter Chelsea:

 

“Two of our officers were killed in Benghazi by an Al Queda-like group: .....”

 

Yes, she is a known commodity for bad judgement and lying.

 

References:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article24738700.html

 

"In contrast to the Americans, who remained in Benghazi, the British determined that the city was too dangerous and closed their offices."

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/01/08/with-2-a-m-state-department-email-trove-82-percent-of-clinton-emails-now-released/

 

"the United States wasn’t literally the last western entity in Benghazi -- though it was one of the last, operating a higher-profile and more permanent facility than the other nations that remained on the ground.""

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/may/16/trey-gowdy/trey-gowdy-says-we-were-last-flag-flying-benghazi/

 

 

[Palantir]

The award winning reporter Sharyl Akitsonn wrote a book "stone walled" and it mentioned Benghazi many times. It is a appalling how it was mishandled.

 

When I see how Obama is busy on the golf course while LA was heavily flooded this year, I know he is incapable of handling Benghazi.

 

Obama and Clinton did nothing wrong in handling Benghazi, apart from blaming it on the video (that I admit they screwed up). Both were FAR removed from the situation. That's why multiple congressional investigations found nothing, and nobody outside of Fox News takes it seriously.

[Palantir]

Hate to defend Hillary but she is a known commodity. No matter what you guys think, nothing has come out of Benghazi.

 

Nothing came out of Benghazi? 

 

a) An Ambassador got killed

b) Several American soldiers got killed (Interesting you accuse HRC of lying, while you are either lying here, or simply aren't sure of the facts)

c) American govt thought it is smart to leave their Embassy open when every other country knew it is a dangerous place and NOT one government kept their consulate open - yes they may have some people come and go, but not like US.  Talk about judgement right there.

 

 

Yes, he's right nothing came out of Benghazi.

 

a) Hillary is not responsible for the death of Mr Stevens

b) No soldiers were killed in Benghazi

c) This was a security failure of the State Department, not a personal mistake made by HRC.

 

Benghazi was a terrorist attack, and while a tragedy, it doesn't mean the GOTUS is responsible. Shall we get into 9/11 and the failures of the administration to take AQ's activity seriously? No of course, not, because that is all hindsight, just like the Benghazi witch hunt.

[Investor20]

Hate to defend Hillary but she is a known commodity. No matter what you guys think, nothing has come out of Benghazi.

 

Nothing came out of Benghazi? 

 

a) An Ambassador got killed

b) Several American soldiers got killed (Interesting you accuse HRC of lying, while you are either lying here, or simply aren't sure of the facts)

c) American govt thought it is smart to leave their Embassy open when every other country knew it is a dangerous place and NOT one government kept their consulate open - yes they may have some people come and go, but not like US.  Talk about judgement right there.

 

 

Yes, he's right nothing came out of Benghazi.

 

a) Hillary is not responsible for the death of Mr Stevens

b) No soldiers were killed in Benghazi

c) This was a security failure of the State Department, not a personal mistake made by HRC.

 

Benghazi was a terrorist attack, and while a tragedy, it doesn't mean the GOTUS is responsible. Shall we get into 9/11 and the failures of the administration to take AQ's activity seriously? No of course, not, because that is all hindsight, just like the Benghazi witch hunt.

 

a) I guess, they are too higher ups, not responsible for anything that happens under them

b) CIA operatives and former Navy seals are not soldiers?

c) Not just a security failure, a terrible misjudgement.  Every government knew to pull off. Even Red Cross knew to pull off.  What made them stay?  Is it not a decision at the highest level?  Secretary of state not responsible?

 

Funny, you conveniently redact evidence I provide so I have to repeat again:

 

References:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/01/08/with-2-a-m-state-department-email-trove-82-percent-of-clinton-emails-now-released/

“Two of our officers were killed in Benghazi by an Al Queda-like group: .....”  written on same night of attack by Hillary.

 

Libya: Red Cross pulls out of Benghazi fearing attack; March 2011;

  Yet our government with tens of billions of dollars in intelligence budget does not know what Red Cross knows!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-12767759

 

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article24738700.html

 

"In contrast to the Americans, who remained in Benghazi, the British determined that the city was too dangerous and closed their offices."

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/may/16/trey-gowdy/trey-gowdy-says-we-were-last-flag-flying-benghazi/

 

"the United States wasn’t literally the last western entity in Benghazi -- though it was one of the last, operating a higher-profile and more permanent facility than the other nations that remained on the ground.""

 

"For instance, Wood said he recalls Turkey having a presence in Benghazi -- "Amb. Stevens went to meet with Turkish diplomats there," he said — but he said the Turks tended to put people on the ground periodically and "for a specific reason." France, for its part, would "rent a villa and send their diplomats, then wrap it all up and leave no trace.""

 

 

 

[Cardboard]

"the attack in benghazi occurred during the night in north africa.  in the united states, it was the afternoon."

 

Touche!

 

So maybe she was into her very late afternoon nap or sick at the time or something else... Bottom line is that she did not do anything to help save these people. And there was lots of warnings about potential dangers over there, the ambassador himself had asked for help.

 

With most companies, we promote people into incompetence or said differently, we give them an assignment beyond their capabilities based on previous successful results.

 

Please name me one important thing that Hillary did successfully as Secretary of State? How would you rate her performance?

 

If you can't or would only give her a passing note, then why should we even risk to promote her into incompetence while she has already performed so poorly at a lower level?

 

Cardboard 

 

[Cardboard]

"Trump doesn't know how to de-escalate a conflict, no matter the urgency or the sensitivity of the matter. He gets into a rage and then nothing can stop him. Look how he had mocked a disabled reporter , family of a gold star soldier, McCain ,Ryan.He handles criticism by issuing threats,escalation and vendetta. Imagine the power he will have when he is the President. I don't think a 70 yr old can change."

 

That is a lot of propaganda. The guy was close to complete ruin in the early 90's with the real estate collapse and made it through. He manages thousands of people and has been able to delegate power to his children. Not all family businesses turn that way. He has dealt with politicians, business people and people of all walks of life for decades and has managed to create a large real estate business involved in some of the most complex areas to deal with. And now I am supposed to believe that he is a total maniac ala Kim Jong Un?

 

I do believe that Trump has a lot of good ideas and some that are not so good. I really like the fact that he wants America to aim for high growth and to be the best while Buffett, Obama and Clinton seem pleased with 1 or 2% growth. When you aim for poor results, you end up with poor to failed results. Dreaming and aiming high is important.

 

His biggest problem IMO is delivery of the message but, maybe that this rhetoric was needed to get him there.

 

On that one, I am also observing a very large change in attitude since Kellyanne Conway was hired as is campaign manager: he didn't trash Clinton when she got sick but, wished her prompt recovery, he is staying on message, using more prepared speeches and writing less on Twitter.

 

So he did change. That tells me that he is able to listen to someone and she is a woman.

 

Cardboard 

 

[rkbabang]

"Trump doesn't know how to de-escalate a conflict, no matter the urgency or the sensitivity of the matter. He gets into a rage and then nothing can stop him. Look how he had mocked a disabled reporter , family of a gold star soldier, McCain ,Ryan.He handles criticism by issuing threats,escalation and vendetta. Imagine the power he will have when he is the President. I don't think a 70 yr old can change."

 

That is a lot of propaganda. The guy was close to complete ruin in the early 90's with the real estate collapse and made it through. He manages thousands of people and has been able to delegate power to his children. Not all family businesses turn that way. He has dealt with politicians, business people and people of all walks of life for decades and has managed to create a large real estate business involved in some of the most complex areas to deal with. And now I am supposed to believe that he is a total maniac ala Kim Jong Un?

 

I do believe that Trump has a lot of good ideas and some that are not so good. I really like the fact that he wants America to aim for high growth and to be the best while Buffett, Obama and Clinton seem pleased with 1 or 2% growth. When you aim for poor results, you end up with poor to failed results. Dreaming and aiming high is important.

 

His biggest problem IMO is delivery of the message but, maybe that this rhetoric was needed to get him there.

 

On that one, I am also observing a very large change in attitude since Kellyanne Conway was hired as is campaign manager: he didn't trash Clinton when she got sick but, wished her prompt recovery, he is staying on message, using more prepared speeches and writing less on Twitter.

 

So he did change. That tells me that he is able to listen to someone and she is a woman.

 

Cardboard 

 

 

Indeed, Trump was very slow to transition from primary election mode to general election mode.  He seems to be getting it now. 

[rkbabang]

Interesting that Johnson has more  newspaper endorsements than Trump. New Hampshire's largest newspaper just endorsed Johnson on the front page.  The first time they've endorsed a non-Republican in over 100 years.

 

http://www.unionleader.com/

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2016/09/14/gary-johnson-nets-third-newspaper-endorsement-this-time-in-new-hampshire/

 

[Palantir]

Hate to defend Hillary but she is a known commodity. No matter what you guys think, nothing has come out of Benghazi.

 

Nothing came out of Benghazi? 

 

a) An Ambassador got killed

b) Several American soldiers got killed (Interesting you accuse HRC of lying, while you are either lying here, or simply aren't sure of the facts)

c) American govt thought it is smart to leave their Embassy open when every other country knew it is a dangerous place and NOT one government kept their consulate open - yes they may have some people come and go, but not like US.  Talk about judgement right there.

 

 

Yes, he's right nothing came out of Benghazi.

 

a) Hillary is not responsible for the death of Mr Stevens

b) No soldiers were killed in Benghazi

c) This was a security failure of the State Department, not a personal mistake made by HRC.

 

Benghazi was a terrorist attack, and while a tragedy, it doesn't mean the GOTUS is responsible. Shall we get into 9/11 and the failures of the administration to take AQ's activity seriously? No of course, not, because that is all hindsight, just like the Benghazi witch hunt.

 

a) I guess, they are too higher ups, not responsible for anything that happens under them

b) CIA operatives and former Navy seals are not soldiers?

c) Not just a security failure, a terrible misjudgement.  Every government knew to pull off. Even Red Cross knew to pull off.  What made them stay?  Is it not a decision at the highest level?  Secretary of state not responsible?

 

Funny, you conveniently redact evidence I provide so I have to repeat again:

 

References:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/01/08/with-2-a-m-state-department-email-trove-82-percent-of-clinton-emails-now-released/

“Two of our officers were killed in Benghazi by an Al Queda-like group: .....”  written on same night of attack by Hillary.

 

Libya: Red Cross pulls out of Benghazi fearing attack; March 2011;

  Yet our government with tens of billions of dollars in intelligence budget does not know what Red Cross knows!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-12767759

 

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article24738700.html

 

"In contrast to the Americans, who remained in Benghazi, the British determined that the city was too dangerous and closed their offices."

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/may/16/trey-gowdy/trey-gowdy-says-we-were-last-flag-flying-benghazi/

 

"the United States wasn’t literally the last western entity in Benghazi -- though it was one of the last, operating a higher-profile and more permanent facility than the other nations that remained on the ground.""

 

"For instance, Wood said he recalls Turkey having a presence in Benghazi -- "Amb. Stevens went to meet with Turkish diplomats there," he said — but he said the Turks tended to put people on the ground periodically and "for a specific reason." France, for its part, would "rent a villa and send their diplomats, then wrap it all up and leave no trace.""

 

1) Correct, Hillary and Obama were far removed from the situation on the ground on Benghazi.

2) Again, correct. The personnel killed were not soldiers but defense contractors and civilian security employees.

3) Everybody knew Libya was a dangerous place. However, the US had important objectives to accomplish and felt that required a presence. Even mr Stevens knew the risks. The strategic decision to stay in Libya is Clintons, not the tactical decisions about security.

[muscleman]

You guys should read Sharyl Aktisonn's book "Stone Walled". She got an award reporting Benghazi.

 

1. Stevens asked the state department multiple times to increase security. Instead his security team was pulled.

2. There is a 24/7 on call security team in the US. When this attack happened, they wrapped up and sat in their planes for many hours, waiting for the president's order to take off. But they never got the order.

3. There is a team in Italy who could have flown to Benghazi in 2 hours. They never got the order.

4. After the attack, Obama refused to call it terrorist attack until 14 days later. However in the 2012 presidential debate Obama insisted that he started calling it terrorist attack on the next day of the attack.

5. Hillary blamed Stevens for being reckless and not reporting all his travel plans. That's another lie.

 

 

 

 

[Palantir]

You guys should read Sharyl Aktisonn's book "Stone Walled". She got an award reporting Benghazi.

 

1. Stevens asked the state department multiple times to increase security. Instead his security team was pulled.

2. There is a 24/7 on call security team in the US. When this attack happened, they wrapped up and sat in their planes for many hours, waiting for the president's order to take off. But they never got the order.

3. There is a team in Italy who could have flown to Benghazi in 2 hours. They never got the order.

4. After the attack, Obama refused to call it terrorist attack until 14 days later. However in the 2012 presidential debate Obama insisted that he started calling it terrorist attack on the next day of the attack.

5. Hillary blamed Stevens for being reckless and not reporting all his travel plans. That's another lie.

 

None of these claims are new yet you keep pushing  them as revelations. But it's useful to get them consolidated in one place, so thanks for that.

 

1) This was not HRCs decision.

2) This is not quite accurate as O did order rescue teams. The air assets needed to be prepared and refueled before launching. From the US they wouldn't have arrived in time. (You can't park a C-17 in front of the embassy, you need to land at an airport and drive or fly there by helo). Same goes for assets based in Europe, need to be refueled and prepared. Remember, many air assets are tied up in the wars we are fighting.

3) Not true.

4) Regardless of what he called it. This came after the attack and would have no impact on saving lives.

5) See above

[Investor20]

1) Correct, Hillary and Obama were far removed from the situation on the ground on Benghazi.

2) Again, correct. The personnel killed were not soldiers but defense contractors and civilian security employees.

3) Everybody knew Libya was a dangerous place. However, the US had important objectives to accomplish and felt that required a presence. Even mr Stevens knew the risks. The strategic decision to stay in Libya is Clintons, not the tactical decisions about security.

 

Palantir, is it so inconvenient to DNC and liberals to call them "soldiers".    They are guys defending American interests on US govt salary.  Whatever you want to call them.  I am surprised you take so much offense at calling them "soldiers".

 

Yes, every country has their objectives, but as given below, there are different ways to achieve their objectives.  The govts of Turkish and French achieved their objectives without putting their people at harms way.  No, need to give a facility to attack, when you can rent a villa and get it done like French.  This is where competence and judgement are important, so lacking with HRC. At the end of the day Turkish and French officials are living and our guys are dead. That is the bottom line".

 

"Amb. Stevens went to meet with Turkish diplomats there," he said — but he said the Turks tended to put people on the ground periodically and "for a specific reason." France, for its part, would "rent a villa and send their diplomats, then wrap it all up and leave no trace.""

 

But for United States "operating a higher-profile and more permanent facility than the other nations that remained on the ground."

 

Muscleman, I believe your comments are correct.  However, I don't think we have to even get to the question of Stevens requesting additional security, or someone being sent to to save them, if HRC did her job, like Turkish & French govts did their jobs.

[muscleman]

You guys should read Sharyl Aktisonn's book "Stone Walled". She got an award reporting Benghazi.

 

1. Stevens asked the state department multiple times to increase security. Instead his security team was pulled.

2. There is a 24/7 on call security team in the US. When this attack happened, they wrapped up and sat in their planes for many hours, waiting for the president's order to take off. But they never got the order.

3. There is a team in Italy who could have flown to Benghazi in 2 hours. They never got the order.

4. After the attack, Obama refused to call it terrorist attack until 14 days later. However in the 2012 presidential debate Obama insisted that he started calling it terrorist attack on the next day of the attack.

5. Hillary blamed Stevens for being reckless and not reporting all his travel plans. That's another lie.

 

None of these claims are new yet you keep pushing  them as revelations. But it's useful to get them consolidated in one place, so thanks for that.

 

1) This was not HRCs decision.

2) This is not quite accurate as O did order rescue teams. The air assets needed to be prepared and refueled before launching. From the US they wouldn't have arrived in time. (You can't park a C-17 in front of the embassy, you need to land at an airport and drive or fly there by helo). Same goes for assets based in Europe, need to be refueled and prepared. Remember, many air assets are tied up in the wars we are fighting.

3) Not true.

4) Regardless of what he called it. This came after the attack and would have no impact on saving lives.

5) See above

 

What you just said is exactly what the government lied and you told them at face value. Sharyl Akitson's book explained about each of the points you mentioned and explained why these points are lies.

 

She also mentioned that every time investigative reporters point out government lies, the officials will say "This is old news". They like to release things in late Friday afternoon just before Congress and reporters go home. Then on Monday when they are questioned, they say, this is old news.

 

 

 

[Palantir]

Investor20, I'll read your whole post later. But as for your first sentence, no matter how you spin it, inconvenience, or whatever. The simple fact is that they were not soldiers period. They were civilian employees and contractors. Your statement was verifiably false and instead of accepting it you keep going on. That means there is no reasoning with you.

[Palantir]

Muscleman - take a break from Fox News and Infowars pls.

[valcont]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/us/politics/hillary-clinton-health-donald-trump.html

 

Oh oh the pneumonia was not contagious. So all the crocodile tears shed for that little young girl had gone to waste. Poor Fox news , can't get a lie to stick anymore.

[muscleman]

Muscleman - take a break from Fox News and Infowars pls.

 

As I said a couple times above, I am talking about Sharyl Akitson's book, not Fox news or Infowars. She is an award winning reporter.

 

[muscleman]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/us/politics/hillary-clinton-health-donald-trump.html

 

Oh oh the pneumonia was not contagious. So all the crocodile tears shed for that little young girl had gone to waste. Poor Fox news , can't get a lie to stick anymore.

 

That's good news! Though I dislike her being our next president, if she does elected, I wish she has solid health to lead our country.  :)

 

[valcont]

Muscleman - take a break from Fox News and Infowars pls.

 

As I said a couple times above, I am talking about Sharyl Akitson's book, not Fox news or Infowars. She is an award winning reporter.

 

Sharyl Akitson was fired from the CBS because instead of being an impartial journalist, she was driven by the far right agenda. Perfect fit for Fox news but then Ailes had a special process to recruit

females that she might have issues with ;)

 

Remember Lara Logan from 60 minutes. She did an 'investigative' scoop on Benghazi and got all the conservatives really excited. Well it turned out the whole story was fake. The key witness lied but

instead of validating that she went with it. She still works over there with zero credibility.

 

My point is that people have their own agendas. The facts cannot be covered up and multiple sources should confirm them. And the fact is that nothing has come out of Benghazi investigation so far.

[muscleman]

Muscleman - take a break from Fox News and Infowars pls.

 

As I said a couple times above, I am talking about Sharyl Akitson's book, not Fox news or Infowars. She is an award winning reporter.

 

Sharyl Akitson was fired from the CBS because instead of being an impartial journalist, she was driven by the far right agenda. Perfect fit for Fox news but then Ailes had a special process to recruit

females that she might have issues with ;)

 

Remember Lara Logan from 60 minutes. She did an 'investigative' scoop on Benghazi and got all the conservatives really excited. Well it turned out the whole story was fake. The key witness lied but

instead of validating that she went with it. She still works over there with zero credibility.

 

My point is that people have their own agendas. The facts cannot be covered up and multiple sources should confirm them. And the fact is that nothing has come out of Benghazi investigation so far.

 

Before Obama, she also received awards reporting Bush administration's issues, and there was no problem and no one calls her "driven by the far right agenda". Now she started reporting Obama's scandals and she is suddenly working for the far right?

 

[onyx1]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/us/politics/hillary-clinton-health-donald-trump.html

 

Oh oh the pneumonia was not contagious. So all the crocodile tears shed for that little young girl had gone to waste. Poor Fox news , can't get a lie to stick anymore.

 

So what kind of  pneumonia allows someone to fully recover 90 minutes after a collapse?  This medical expert believes it's hogwash and the facts support her having Parkinsons.  If true, I think we can all agree she is disqualified.  Will she admit it?  Not on a chance.  It's got to be painful to be a democrat and watch this train wreck.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-13/medical-doctor-explains-why-hillarys-911-medical-episode-looks-more-parkinsons-pneum

[vox]

I'm not sure why Benghazi gets as much discussion as it does, but the real issue with Hillary and Libya that bothers me was the actual overthrow of Gaddafi. It was her influence that swung the pendulum toward bombing Libya, against the recommendation of the Sec of Defense: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/us/politics/hillary-clinton-libya.html . What came out of that decision was a failed state that strengthened ISIS and worsened the refugee crisis: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/libya-david-cameron-isis-islamic-state-ultimately-responsible-for-leading-to-collapse-and-rise-of-a7251331.html

 

She may have meant well, but it's her poor judgment that bothers me more than anything. Her rhetoric on Russia sounds straight out of the Cuban missile crisis: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/sep/1/clinton-us-will-treat-cyberattacks-just-any-other-/ . The scariest part there is she regularly blames Russia for hacks when no public evidence exists that the Russian government is behind them.

 

Donald Trump also advocated for immediate military intervention to topple Qaddafi in Libya. From his Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnZFQiDR4hQ

 

His addendum is that he also wants to steal their oil. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=21&v=duyvYNh-fLw