Tesla introduces "Ludicrous Mode"

[ERICOPOLY]

Well, I hate to say it... but I'll probably need to trade in my car for this one because mine takes about 4.2 seconds to get to 60.  That's 50% longer!:

 

With the "Ludicrous Mode," the new Tesla Model S P90D will get to 60 in just 2.8 seconds.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/17/autos/tesla-ludicrous-mode/index.html?iid=hp-toplead-dom

[Jurgis]

[ERICOPOLY]

 

I love Spaceballs.  Seen it a dozen times.  We're combing the desert!

[rkbabang]

Well, I hate to say it... but I'll probably need to trade in my car for this one because mine takes about 4.2 seconds to get to 60.  That's 50% longer!:

 

With the "Ludicrous Mode," the new Tesla Model S P90D will get to 60 in just 2.8 seconds.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/17/autos/tesla-ludicrous-mode/index.html?iid=hp-toplead-dom

 

 

Why not just wait for the new Roadster in 4 years...

http://i.stack.imgur.com/mNA4dm.jpg

 

 

[Liberty]

Well, I hate to say it... but I'll probably need to trade in my car for this one because mine takes about 4.2 seconds to get to 60.  That's 50% longer!:

 

With the "Ludicrous Mode," the new Tesla Model S P90D will get to 60 in just 2.8 seconds.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/17/autos/tesla-ludicrous-mode/index.html?iid=hp-toplead-dom

 

You'd also get a 300-mile range with the new 90kwh battery.

 

How often do you wish you had a longer range on your 85?

[ERICOPOLY]

Well, I hate to say it... but I'll probably need to trade in my car for this one because mine takes about 4.2 seconds to get to 60.  That's 50% longer!:

 

With the "Ludicrous Mode," the new Tesla Model S P90D will get to 60 in just 2.8 seconds.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/17/autos/tesla-ludicrous-mode/index.html?iid=hp-toplead-dom

 

You'd also get a 300-mile range with the new 90kwh battery.

 

How often do you wish you had a longer range on your 85?

 

It doesn't work that way.  Nobody is going to drive a P90D at 55 MPH in order to attain 300 mile range EPA estimate.

 

My P85 starts out with 265 EPA range, but I only get 200 actual miles out of a full charge.  I drive 75-80 MPH.  Higher speed,more drag, less range.

 

Where is the customer driving a car that sporty and adheres to 55 MPH?  Musk is full of shit here, and IMP should stop bullshitting people.  Don't be sneaky, you can just be honest and be less of a salesman.  It won't hurt to come clean.

[Travis Wiedower]

Eric,

 

Not that it's a huge difference but the Tesla blog claims it's 300 miles at 65mph. Do most people drive 65? No, but it is the speed limit in many states so I think it's a perfectly reasonable statement. If they stated the range at 80mph they'd probably have some overly-sensitive group making waves that Tesla is promoting speeding and breaking the law  ::)

 

Blog post here: http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/three-dog-day

[yadayada]

wonder when they will introduce GAAP profit mode.

[Liberty]

Well, I hate to say it... but I'll probably need to trade in my car for this one because mine takes about 4.2 seconds to get to 60.  That's 50% longer!:

 

With the "Ludicrous Mode," the new Tesla Model S P90D will get to 60 in just 2.8 seconds.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/17/autos/tesla-ludicrous-mode/index.html?iid=hp-toplead-dom

 

You'd also get a 300-mile range with the new 90kwh battery.

 

How often do you wish you had a longer range on your 85?

 

It doesn't work that way.  Nobody is going to drive a P90D at 55 MPH in order to attain 300 mile range EPA estimate.

 

My P85 starts out with 265 EPA range, but I only get 200 actual miles out of a full charge.  I drive 75-80 MPH.  Higher speed,more drag, less range.

 

Where is the customer driving a car that sporty and adheres to 55 MPH?  Musk is full of shit here, and IMP should stop bullshitting people.  Don't be sneaky, you can just be honest and be less of a salesman.  It won't hurt to come clean.

 

Tell that to the EPA who makes the methodology for range calcs. At a certain speed, you get a certain range, if you go faster, you get less. Wind resistance increases exponentially with speed, so if you drive fast the impact gets significant. That's true for gas cars too, nothing special about the Tesla (except it's a lot more aerodynamic than most cars). And lots of people do a lot of city driving, leading to much lower averages speeds.

 

And btw, the AWD "D" model gets more range on the same battery than the non-AWD, which you have. Seems counterintuitive if you're used to gas cars, which get worse efficiency with AWD, but with EVs having two motors allows all kinds of optimizations...

[Liberty]

wonder when they will introduce GAAP profit mode.

 

When they reinvest less in the business.

 

Ramping up production at 50%/year at the same time as developing at least two new models (Model X, Model 3, which is not a reuse of the existing platform, and they said they also want to do a pickup truck in the class of the Ford F150, so maybe they've started work on that), at the same time as building a $5 billion battery factory that will produce as much as the rest of the world combined, at the same time as building a network of fast-charging stations worldwide, at the same time as building stores and service centers on three continents, at the same time as hiring tons of software people to work on self-driving cars and rapid updates to the existing software, at the same time as developing an energy storage business for consumers and utilities, along with whatever they haven't announced yet, is kind of bound to have an impact on the income statement...

[muscleman]

Wow. Didn't know you have a p85 Tesla, Eric. Did you also buy its stock?  :D

[ERICOPOLY]

Wow. Didn't know you have a p85 Tesla, Eric. Did you also buy its stock?  :D

 

I bought the car but not the stock.  So just like the shorts have lost a lot of money on Tesla, Tesla has cost me a lot of money.  But at least I get to drive around with my losses.

 

I didn't buy the stock, nor did I short it.  I just said I have no way of valuing it when it was $30 -- some people thought it was overpriced at $30 and shorted it, but they were really overvaluing their ability to see into the future.

 

I believe value investing works if you stick to things that can be valued with a higher degree of certainty -- and you need a predictable thing to wager on in order for that to happen.  So that's where you get to all the attributes that Buffett likes about companies -- I just think he figured out at some point that in order to be a value investor you really need to stay within a circle of predictability.

 

[jobyts]

How many seconds does Tesla take from 60 to 0? That is more important for me than the other way.

[Liberty]

Interesting backstory on how they came up with the ludicrous mode..

 

Luuudicrous Mode

While working on our goal of making the power train last a million miles, we came up with the idea for an advanced smart fuse for the battery. Instead of a standard fuse that just melts past a certain amperage, requiring a big gap between the normal operating current and max current, we developed a fuse with its own electronics and a tiny lithium-ion battery. It constantly monitors current at the millisecond level and is pyro-actuated to cut power with extreme precision and certainty.

 

That was combined with upgrading the main pack contactor to use inconel (a high temperature space-grade superalloy) instead of steel, so that it remains springy under the heat of heavy current. The net result is that we can safely increase the max pack output from 1300 to 1500 Amps.

 

What this results in is a 10% improvement in the 0 to 60 mph time to 2.8 secs and a quarter mile time of 10.9 secs. Time to 155 mph is improved even more, resulting in a 20% reduction.

 

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/three-dog-day

[ERICOPOLY]

Tell that to the EPA who makes the methodology for range calcs. At a certain speed, you get a certain range, if you go faster, you get less. Wind resistance increases exponentially with speed, so if you drive fast the impact gets significant. That's true for gas cars too, nothing special about the Tesla (except it's a lot more aerodynamic than most cars). And lots of people do a lot of city driving, leading to much lower averages speeds.

 

I don't blame the EPA because the EPA just puts out a number.  The average person who talks to me about my car doesn't understand how much range declines with just a modest increase in speed -- like from 65 to 75.

 

Tesla uses the EPA's number as a marketing tool without enough clear emphasis that there is a huge drop-off in range at higher speeds.

 

Probably because they don't want people to see it as the unsexy car that has to be in the slow lane when you set out on the exciting first roadtrip of summer.  There you are in your fancy new car, going 65 while everyone is passing you.  You dare not speed up for fear that you won't make it to your destination.  Elon Musk does not want people to think of his cars that way.

 

It's different with electric cars because the buyer needs to properly assess what the range is going to look like given their preferential speed of driving.  This is critically important to get right because of the lack of charging options between waypoints.

[Liberty]

Tell that to the EPA who makes the methodology for range calcs. At a certain speed, you get a certain range, if you go faster, you get less. Wind resistance increases exponentially with speed, so if you drive fast the impact gets significant. That's true for gas cars too, nothing special about the Tesla (except it's a lot more aerodynamic than most cars). And lots of people do a lot of city driving, leading to much lower averages speeds.

 

I don't blame the EPA because the EPA just puts out a number.  The average person who talks to me about my car doesn't understand how much range declines with just a modest increase in speed -- like from 65 to 75.

 

Tesla uses the EPA's number as a marketing tool without enough clear emphasis that there is a huge drop-off in range at higher speeds.

 

Probably because they don't want people to see it as the unsexy car that has to be in the slow lane when you set out on the exciting first roadtrip of summer.  There you are in your fancy new car, going 65 while everyone is passing you.  You dare not speed up for fear that you won't make it to your destination.  Elon Musk does not want people to think of his cars that way.

 

It's different with electric cars because the buyer needs to properly assess what the range is going to look like given their preferential speed of driving.  This is critically important to get right because of the lack of charging options between waypoints.

 

I don't know, the same is true for all cars. They might advertise that Corolla or Infiniti as getting X MPG on the highway, but if you drive 80 MPH instead of 60 MPH, you'll get significantly worse MPG. That's just physics plus the fact that the advertised number is always derived from testing around the most common legal limit (60 MPH or 65 MPH). You won't see an ad for a Mustang and see "it gets 20 MPG at 80 MPH" or whatever.

 

http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

 

As for places to charges, seems like there are quite a few, and within a couple years (you can see on the maps), you won't be able to throw a stick without hitting a supercharger, not to mention all the other stations that aren't superchargers and the fact that most Tesla owners charge at home so always leave with a full "tank" in the morning. I'd say that on average, Tesla owners probably have to think a lot less about "refueling" than gas car owners (is anything more annoying than stopping at a gas station? I'd trade all those frequent stops there for having to stop at a Supercharger on a long trip once or twice a year in a heartbeat). Main exception is someone who is constantly doing day-long roadtrips. That person should probably wait a few years to get an electric car.

[ERICOPOLY]

I don't know, the same is true for all cars. They might advertise that Corolla or Infiniti as getting X MPG on the highway, but if you drive 80 MPH instead of 60 MPH, you'll get significantly worse MPG.

 

I would agree with you if gas stations were typically located a few hundred miles apart, with none in between.

 

People in gasoline cars don't need to think about whether they'll make it from gas station A to gas station B when they are planning what route to drive on summer vacation.  They simply don't even consider the possibility that driving 80 versus driving 65 will leave them stranded with an empty gas tank.

[Liberty]

I don't know, the same is true for all cars. They might advertise that Corolla or Infiniti as getting X MPG on the highway, but if you drive 80 MPH instead of 60 MPH, you'll get significantly worse MPG.

 

I would agree with you if gas stations were typically located a few hundred miles apart, with none in between.

 

People in gasoline cars don't need to think about whether they'll make it from point A to point B.

 

Of course range is more of an issue with electric cars. A few years ago it was *the* main dealbreaker with them along with price, performance, looks, safety, public perception, etc, and now it's just something that you have to be more careful about in some very specific situations (day to day you start with a full charge, so you should be fine unless your main job is Uber driver, but for roadtrips you have to plan a route with charging, which the onboard computer does for you). Still doesn't have anything to do with Tesla being somewhat dishonest because they give a range based on the legal speed limit like everyone else does. This is the equivalent of what you can see on every car forum out there: "Hey, I bought Car X, is it broken? Sticker says I should get # MPG with it, but I only get %, what's wrong? Oh yeah, I always drive fast on the highway, race off every red light, etc".

 

Early adopters always have it a little worse than late adopters; early iPhone users congested AT&T's network so much that they had crappy speeds and dropped calls... In a few years there'll be Superchargers everywhere and batteries will have more capacity and this problem will go away, but for now it's something that might inconvenience you. But if you want to trade your Tesla for my Corolla, I'll take it off your hands.

[ERICOPOLY]

but for roadtrips you have to plan a route with charging, which the onboard computer does for you

 

Sort of... you can't tell it how fast you plan on driving and then have it plan the proper route for you.

 

It can set you out down a path and then only later tell you that you won't make it unless you slow down.

 

It's not quite what they advertise it to be.

 

 

[Liberty]

but for roadtrips you have to plan a route with charging, which the onboard computer does for you

 

Sort of... you can't tell it how fast you plan on driving and then have it plan the proper route for you.

 

It can set you out down a path and then only later tell you that you won't make it unless you slow down.

 

It's not quite what they advertise it to be.

 

I would suggest that you send a feature request to the company. They're quite receptive with that stuff. It could be in the next software update, who knows?

[rkbabang]

but for roadtrips you have to plan a route with charging, which the onboard computer does for you

 

Sort of... you can't tell it how fast you plan on driving and then have it plan the proper route for you.

 

It can set you out down a path and then only later tell you that you won't make it unless you slow down.

 

It's not quite what they advertise it to be.

 

 

What would be nice is if the computer learned how fast you typically drive on certain roads at certain times of the day, and use that info to get better and better at planning your routes.  It could also use the info to predict how fast you are likely to drive on roads that you have never driven on yet using your past driving on similar types of roads.  Also use facial recognition to have a profile for every driver of the car and plan the route based on who will be driving.

Maybe even have an option to tell it "I'm in a hurry" or "No rush I won't be driving as fast today".