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Fairfax India new issue


thrifty

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Karthikpm, it's an IPO which hasn't occurred yet, so you can't trade it yet. It looks like an offering for a SPAC focused on India. It's not technically a SPAC.

 

The Company has applied to have the Subordinate Voting Shares listed on the TSX.

 

The Company anticipates that its portfolio will be concentrated, provided that the Net Proceeds of the Offerings will be invested in at least six different Indian Investments, such that no single investment is expected to have an overly undue impact on the performance of the Company.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

An application has been granted for the original listing in the Industrial category of up to 108,078,947 subordinate voting shares (the "Shares"), of which up to 70,578,947 Shares will be issued and outstanding, and up to 37,500,000 Shares will be reserved for issuance upon completion of an initial public offering (the "Offering") and the concurrent private placements.

 

The Shares will be traded in U.S. funds. Accordingly, they will appear under the heading U.S. funds in newspapers and the Exchange's Daily Record and Monthly Review.

 

Listing of the Shares will become effective at 5:01 p.m. on Thursday, January 29, 2015 in anticipation of the Offering closing on Friday, January 30, 2015. The Shares will be posted for trading at the opening on Friday, January 30, 2015 upon confirmation of closing.

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Did anyone buy in today? There doesn't seem to be a way to value this besides Prem Watsa + India = $$$.

 

I'm tempted to start a position soon for two reasons.

 

1) Prem Watsa + India = $$$  ;)

 

2) This has the faint air of a spinoff of the Fairfax brand. As such it might take time to be recognized properly by the market. The less than explosive debut today reinforces this feeling.

 

Speculative? I suppose it is since it has no holdings. But it's FFH, how speculative could it be?

 

Can anyone dissuade me?

 

 

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Did anyone buy in today? There doesn't seem to be a way to value this besides Prem Watsa + India = $$$.

 

I'm tempted to start a position soon for two reasons.

 

1) Prem Watsa + India = $$$  ;)

 

2) This has the faint air of a spinoff of the Fairfax brand. As such it might take time to be recognized properly by the market. The less than explosive debut today reinforces this feeling..

 

Speculative? I suppose it is since it has no holdings. But it's FFH, how speculative could it be?

 

Can anyone dissuade me?

 

This is like buying into an Indian company at book value, i.e. cash on hand. If you believe that Prem Watsa is a great investor, then you are buying in at a fair price, exactly book. It is no more speculative than a mutual fund. It is most certainly not a spinoff unless it trades down versus the cash on hand.  (I suspect it might trade somewhat over book.)

 

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Did anyone buy in today? There doesn't seem to be a way to value this besides Prem Watsa + India = $$$.

 

I'm tempted to start a position soon for two reasons.

 

1) Prem Watsa + India = $$$  ;)

 

2) This has the faint air of a spinoff of the Fairfax brand. As such it might take time to be recognized properly by the market. The less than explosive debut today reinforces this feeling.

 

Speculative? I suppose it is since it has no holdings. But it's FFH, how speculative could it be?

 

Can anyone dissuade me?

What multiples does it trade at currently?

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Multiples?  As far as I can tell, they've raised the equivalent of $10/share and it's pricing just below that post-ipo.  But I think it's all just cash now waiting for Watsa, et al. to deploy it.  It does appear to be available to US investors via Fidelity through their international desk, though they basically have to manually route the trade from what I heard.

 

I'm curious what you all think about the fee structure.  From the prospectus, it looks like a 1.5% on AUM invested, 0.5% on the remaining cash, and 20% of performance above the larger of a high-water mark, or hurdle rate --- which seems to be 5% annualized.  Does that seem like a reasonable fee to hire Prem and his team to manage your Indian investments?

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Multiples?  As far as I can tell, they've raised the equivalent of $10/share and it's pricing just below that post-ipo.  But I think it's all just cash now waiting for Watsa, et al. to deploy it.  It does appear to be available to US investors via Fidelity through their international desk, though they basically have to manually route the trade from what I heard.

 

I'm curious what you all think about the fee structure.  From the prospectus, it looks like a 1.5% on AUM invested, 0.5% on the remaining cash, and 20% of performance above the larger of a high-water mark, or hurdle rate --- which seems to be 5% annualized.  Does that seem like a reasonable fee to hire Prem and his team to manage your Indian investments?

 

on second thought its not so bad you don't pay any fees for a while, until the deploy some capital. I like who they are partnered with in India.

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I read the fee structure as 0.5% for undeployed capital and 1.5% for deployed portion of capital. Also, its accrued and paid 3 years at a time and Fairfax could choose to get paid in stock vs cash.

 

"The Administration and Advisory Fee will be an amount equal to the sum of: (i) 1.5% of the Net Asset Value of the Company less the aggregate fair value of any Undeployed Capital; and (ii) 0.5% of the aggregate fair value of any Undeployed Capital. "

 

I did buy a few shares through Fidelity. Yes. I had to call it in since it's US$ traded on Toronto exchange which cannot be handled online by them - they did charge $50 fee for tine international transaction + $7.95 commission (matched online commission since they do not allow this transaction online).

 

 

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Is there a conflict of interest here between Fairfax India and TCIL?  Given that TCIL is meant to be buying things in India on Fairfax's behalf?

 

i guess so, but i feel like this is often the case with any investment manager runs multiple portfolio's or entities. ie)Pabrai with Pabrai Funds, Dakshana Foundation, and now Dhandho holdings.

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I do not have any specific knowledge but recall reading that this fund would be more focused on infrstructure type of projects. I would imagine this would be better for insurance companies or pension funds to invest in.

 

TCIL is into buying businesses.

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I do not have any specific knowledge but recall reading that this fund would be more focused on infrstructure type of projects. I would imagine this would be better for insurance companies or pension funds to invest in.

 

TCIL is into buying businesses.

 

Fairfax India is not restricted to infrastructure.  From the prospectus:

 

The Company will invest in businesses that are expected to benefit from India’s current pro-business

political environment, its growing middle class and its demographic trends that are expected to underpin strong

growth for several years. Sectors of the Indian economy that the Company believes will benefit most from such

trends include infrastructure, the consumer services and retail sectors and the export sector. The Company,

however, will not be limited to investing solely in these sectors and intends to invest in other sectors as

opportunities arise.

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  • 2 weeks later...

does it make sense to pay anything above 10 dollars for this?

 

You're definitely paying over NAV to do so.

 

However, there is likely to be a scarcity premium...how many India only PE-style funds with a value manager that has a track record do you have access to? This is all to say...if you think they will generate great returns and you don't think you can replicate the asset for less it may make sense to buy...

 

All this said, I don't own any directly and 1.5% and a 20% incentive are steep.

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+1

 

The value investor in me doesn't like those fees. Just buy more Fairfax: each share has quite a bit of exposure to the Indian economy/stocks if you consider their 74% of Thomas Cook, the 26% of ICICI Lombard, and the 300M they have invested in this fund, and the fees they'll generate for the AUM in the fund.

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Or, if you're extra bullish on India, own both. Whatever FIH pays to FFH will accrue to Fairfax shareholders, will it not? So if you own both you're kind of paying yourself 1.5 and 20...

 

ok thanks everyone. that 1.5% and 20 goes watsa not shareholders i thought?...

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