Ukraine?

[fareastwarriors]

U.S. Hopes Boom In Natural Gas Can Curb Putin

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/06/world/europe/us-seeks-to-reduce-ukraines-reliance-on-russia-for-natural-gas.html?hp&_r=0

[indythinker85]

Suppose the US had their only permanently unfrozen and one of their largest naval bases in a territory that was largely inhabited by English speaking pro-American people which used to be part of the United States.  For geographical comparison, let's say the territory in question is the States of Florida and Georgia, with the base in question being in Florida.  Then, the Florida/Georgia government becomes bankrupt and starts shopping around a deal to bail them out.  Seems like the best deal is what the Cubans are offering so they decide to become indebted to them. 

 

Then of course all of the pro-American citizens in the former US territory (Florida) become enraged and demonstrate and oust the leader who is contemplating this deal with the enemy.  Now the territory is in flux and control over their largest naval base is in jeopardy and all the pro-American english speaking citizens in the zone containing said naval base start getting worried about the anti-Americans who are on the other side of this argument and are also citizens of the same territory but in a different region.

 

What would the American response to this situation be? 

 

Would they be hailed as heroes in the press for looking out for their own, restoring order and showing strength in light of political upheaval?

 

Why is Putin compared to Hitler for a similar response?

 

The military-industrial complex requires only one fuel - an enemy - and without it would wither and shrink. 

 

Invert, always invert.

 

Maybe you should have mentioned in comparison that the territory got freedom from decades of being treated as second class to the main country or that they gave up their defenses on assurances of protection from the people Invading them. That their country has been meddled with since it was formed. So imagine it from the points of view of the Ukranians like you said Invert, always Invert.

 

Then we can mention why West Ukraine went from a region that was very ethnically diverse into one that became entirely Ukrainian. Although, for good reason the Ukrainian 'nationalists' want to avoid this very embarrassing topic.

[Palantir]

^Or we could talk about why the Ukrainians have good reason to be fearful of Russian hegemony given that they starved Ukraine to the extent that people had to resort to eating their own children. Or we could talk about the multiple Russian genocides  throughout the Caucasus and Central Asia. Perhaps the Ukrainians don't want to end up like the Circassians.

[indythinker85]

^Or we could talk about why the Ukrainians have good reason to be fearful of Russian hegemony given that they starved Ukraine to the extent that people had to resort to eating their own children. Or we could talk about the multiple Russian genocides  throughout the Caucasus and Central Asia. Perhaps the Ukrainians don't want to end up like the Circassians.

 

Yes i know. My grandfather was almost a victim of a purge because of his nationality (he spent years in the Gulag). The point is that to present Ukrainians only as victims is a false narrative. Both Russia and Ukraine need to learn to confront their past as Germany did. As we see with Japan its very unhealthy and unproductive to deny gross atrocities; the least that can be done is to admit and say sorry. The Ukrainian worship of people who massacred thousands of civilians (many times totally unprovoked) because of their ethnicity is troubling and unhealthy.

[cubsfan]

 

Vitaliy on Putin:

 

http://www.institutionalinvestor.com/blogarticle/3315726/Will-Russia-Go-to-War-Over-Ukraine-Dont-Bet-on-It.html

[oldye]

Then we can mention why West Ukraine went from a region that was very ethnically diverse into one that became entirely Ukrainian. Although, for good reason the Ukrainian 'nationalists' want to avoid this very embarrassing topic.

 

That is why just about all of us left first/second chance we got. The few that stayed must be really stubborn.

[yadayada]

is putin really in full power tho? Lets take the olympics. What would have happened if he chose not to funnel away so much money to all the higher ups? I doubt he is some kind of russian superpower on his own. He probably has to please certain powerfull parties in his country, or else they conspire against him and hes fked.

 

Would be fascinating to watch that guy at work for like a month. Take an uncensored peek into his world.

[Palantir]

Yes i know. My grandfather was almost a victim of a purge because of his nationality (he spent years in the Gulag). The point is that to present Ukrainians only as victims is a false narrative. Both Russia and Ukraine need to learn to confront their past as Germany did. As we see with Japan its very unhealthy and unproductive to deny gross atrocities; the least that can be done is to admit and say sorry. The Ukrainian worship of people who massacred thousands of civilians (many times totally unprovoked) because of their ethnicity is troubling and unhealthy.

 

Fair enough, I agree that the US habit of anointing one side as the "good guys" is annoying.

 

is putin really in full power tho? Lets take the olympics. What would have happened if he chose not to funnel away so much money to all the higher ups? I doubt he is some kind of russian superpower on his own. He probably has to please certain powerfull parties in his country, or else they conspire against him and hes fked.

 

Hmm...I think you are conflating Putin with Yeltsin. In  Yeltsin's times, the billionaires had power over the nation, now to me, it seems like the opposite, powerful people stay in power because they have Putin's favor......

[SharperDingaan]

Putin is KGB; boss of bosses - but even a boss has to periodically change players when the corruption gets out of hand.

Make the takeover big enough, & you will over-ride state sovereignty.

 

SD

[ZenaidaMacroura]

is putin really in full power tho? Lets take the olympics. What would have happened if he chose not to funnel away so much money to all the higher ups? I doubt he is some kind of russian superpower on his own. He probably has to please certain powerfull parties in his country, or else they conspire against him and hes fked.

 

Would be fascinating to watch that guy at work for like a month. Take an uncensored peek into his world.

I've always wondered this; To what extent is Putin (or any other person in a position of perceived power) acting of his own volition as opposed to taking action out of necessity to ensure their own survival?

[jouni1]

some values starting to form in the border regions.

 

might start one or two investment idea threads soon. market-leading premium non-russian companies have lost 10-30% of their value and are starting to look attractive. these are businesses that operate in eastern europe, russia included.

 

i'm willing to bet putin won't be stupid enough to socialize every asset owned by western companies in russia. some of these companies are priced like they're going to lose most of their business, which wasn't the case last time around (georgia). that time i let my fear stop me from buying.

 

this time i'll start buying slowly, the volatility is going to be huge. next meaningful news will move these companies 10%, the direction is still uncertain.

[rkbabang]

is putin really in full power tho? Lets take the olympics. What would have happened if he chose not to funnel away so much money to all the higher ups? I doubt he is some kind of russian superpower on his own. He probably has to please certain powerfull parties in his country, or else they conspire against him and hes fked.

 

Would be fascinating to watch that guy at work for like a month. Take an uncensored peek into his world.

I've always wondered this; To what extent is Putin (or any other person in a position of perceived power) acting of his own volition as opposed to taking action out of necessity to ensure their own survival?

 

I think there is always a lot of both.  Take Obama for example.  I think he really was naive enough to think he could just be elected president, get into the Whitehouse and end the wars, let the patriot act expire, etc.  I think eventually the reality hit him, or someone informed him, that if he actually tried such things he wouldn't be alive to finish his first term.

 

[matjone]

I imagine a lot of you already read this blog but I thought I'd post it:

 

http://adventuresincapitalism.com/post/2014/03/16/Russian-(And-American)-Roulette.aspx

[matts]

One of the best rational takes I've read on the current situation:

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/03/25/why_the_west_isnt_isolating_russia_over_crimea_walkom.html