mcliu

Who cares if Cuomo thanks China for sending 1,000 vents? U.S. isn't going to become communist by saying "thank you" when someone helps us during dire times. NY governor had to go to China to get around scum Kushner. That's the key fact to note here. One step at a time. Isolate America, take away allies. Divide America, exploit partisanship. Conquer America, elect friendlies to leadership. Same playbook in Canada/Australia and globally. https://unwatch.org/china-joins-u-n-human-rights-panel-will-help-pick-experts-on-free-speech-health-arbitrary-detention/

Trump is a passing phase, he has at most 4 more years left. Shouldn’t let the hate for Trump cloud the big picture. A substantial pivot to China/Comunist Party might result in today’s equivalent of the Soviet Union winning the Cold War. Would the world really be a better place? Many politician are falling in line. Time to 学中文？

China true friend of Canada?

Projected 3,000 to 15,000 deaths in Ontario.. More than Hubei province in China, up to 5x more. How is Trudeau/Ford govt managing this well? 3,000 to 15,000 deaths is an estimate over the course of the entire pandemic. Ontario model estimates that it may last up to 2 years (multiple waves). Do you have Hubei estimate for the entire pandemic? What is their estimate for the pandemic duration? I agree with you that Ontario is not managing all that well. However, you don't need to spin the numbers to make your case. Sorry, not trying to spin #s. I was just looking at slide 13 and it says over course of pandemic, doesn't list any assumptions. No idea about Hubei #s. Officially ~3000 deaths and pandemic basically over. Estimates over 10x those #s, who knows. Keep in mind there's 4x the population of Ontario and higher density. Also, Ontario currently has more deaths than Quebec but only half the # of cases?

I think you're not really interested in an answer. If I'm wrong, the answer has been all over this thread. Go look it up. I'm surprised that you have so much faith in the transparency of the Chinese Communist Party in sharing the number of deaths. (It's still noteworthy that USA has a 5x per capita death rate compared to Canada. If you think Canada's managing this poorly, you must think that the USA is managing this horrendously.) Aren’t they projecting 150k deaths in the US? US definitely managed this horribly. There was opportunity for them to do very well had they acted early. But I’m not that optimistic about the situation in Canada. I think it’s being mismanaged here as well.. The federal heath minister just said there’s no reason to doubt Chinese #s. It’s a conspiracy that Chinese #s are higher.. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-health-minister-says-canada-has-no-evidence-that-china-is-under/ I trust muscle 10x more than China or Trudeau. Yeah, that's my point. This whole time Trudeau & co has been managing this crisis on the guidance of WHO and Chinese data. Hence, no travel ban, no masks, encouraging people to go out in February/early-March etc. That's why I felt it was mismanaged here. Early contact tracing seems to have worked for a while, but it was a delay, which should have been used to ramp up mass testing, PPE/ventilator production, hospital beds and hard lockdown, etc. But it seems like they've blown the lead. Even data collection has been weak. Cases figures don't add up. ICU's nearing capacity, but no exact bed count. Nothing like the data that NY state's been providing in Cuomo's briefings.

I think you're not really interested in an answer. If I'm wrong, the answer has been all over this thread. Go look it up. I'm surprised that you have so much faith in the transparency of the Chinese Communist Party in sharing the number of deaths. (It's still noteworthy that USA has a 5x per capita death rate compared to Canada. If you think Canada's managing this poorly, you must think that the USA is managing this horrendously.) Aren’t they projecting 150k deaths in the US? US definitely managed this horribly. There was opportunity for them to do very well had they acted early. But I’m not that optimistic about the situation in Canada. I think it’s being mismanaged here as well.. The federal heath minister just said there’s no reason to doubt Chinese #s. It’s a conspiracy that Chinese #s are higher.. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-health-minister-says-canada-has-no-evidence-that-china-is-under/

Projected 3,000 to 15,000 deaths in Ontario.. More than Hubei province in China, up to 5x more. How is Trudeau/Ford govt managing this well?

China not lying, all a big conspiracy: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-health-minister-says-canada-has-no-evidence-that-china-is-under/ Health Minister says Canada has no evidence that China is under-reporting virus impact “Ms. Hajdu was asked about China’s conduct in the wake of a report from Bloomberg News that said U.S. intelligence officals have told the White house Beijing has concealed the full extent of the coronavirus outbreak in China, where the novel coronavirus first appeared. “There is no indication that the data that came out of China in terms of their infection rate, and their death rate, was falsified in any way,” she told reporters at an Ottawa briefing Thursday. Asked whether the WHO data can be considered accurate if China’s data is not, Ms. Hadju then criticized a reporter who had asked questions about the matter. “Your question is feeding into conspiracy theories that many people have been perpetuating on the Internet,” Ms. Hajdu said. “There is no way to beat a global pandemic if we are actually not willing to work together as a globe.”

RichardGibbons post earlier about early response and lockdown contact tracing is good. I think the data seems to paint a much better picture than reports from hospitals. Even the PM admits today there’s a problem in terms of data collection. I think things are going to get much worse. Ontario will release models soon. Toronto density is a lot less than NYC though, with a much smaller population too. Trudeau vows better gathering and release of pandemic data “In Canada, there has been a wide discrepancy between the data that is provided by provincial authorities on a daily basis – in addition to different levels of transparency on internal projections.” https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-trudeau-vows-better-gathering-and-release-of-pandemic-data/ Ontario ICUs stressed by surge of COVID-19 cases https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/171923411597 COVID-19 cases in Ontario ICUs far higher than official figures Calls mount for Ottawa to release projections on COVID-19 spread https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ottawa-release-projections-covid-19-pandemic-1.5519253

It's fairly easy to criticize the US response by comparing it to Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, but they are very different countries compared to the US with very different populations and politics and mistrust of China. Obviously, the US federal government did some appropriate things like travel ban and some inappropriate things like failing to ramping up testing, screening, PPE protection. But even Deborah Birx said that when Wuhan happened she was still in Africa and based on the Chinese data and WHO guidance, scientists thought it was a much more contained epidemic like the original SARS. Also, although the lockdown of Wuhan in China was effective, there are many reports on Chinese social media (obviously cannot be verified) of various rolling lock-downs and flare-ups. That's with everyone wearing masks. So it might not be the best long-term strategy.

Nope, I don't have a timeline, but if you want to spend a couple hours putting one together, I'd love to see it. I vaguely recall the restaurant thing. It was a long time ago, probably associated with Chinese New Year on Feb 2, not late Feb/early March. The primary things Canada's done very well is data collection, testing, and tracking cases--for weeks at the beginning of the outbreak, BC was ahead of USA, and as of March 16, Canada had done 50% more testing than USA. Second, Canada did the lockdowns at roughly the right time. The combination of these two things has had the result that nowhere in Canada is completely overloaded now, with per-capita cases way lower than the USA, and growth rates lower, too. Closing the border against the primary country where COVID-19 is skyrocketing (USA) was also well-done, both in terms of timing and diplomacy. In terms of actions the countries will take over the next few months, I'd expect that USA will ramp up faster/better than Canada, both because USA will be better at ramping up supply chains, and because USA will need it more. Thanks RichardGibbons. I really hope you're right and we're not just later on the curve. I think the Chinese community here were really ahead of this; even in late January/early Feb, many people were starting to self-isolate after visiting China and wearing face masks. Yes, Trudeau visited Chinese restaurant on Feb 1 for Chinese New Year. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/coronavirus-canada-trudeau-february-1-1.5448834 But he also visited on Mar 5, as per his FB. Also, no social distancing in those photos. https://www.facebook.com/JustinPJTrudeau/posts/in-scarborough-and-across-the-country-chinese-canadians-have-helped-make-our-com/10158655284655649/ Here is the Edmonton Journal timeline, probably have to take a grain of salt since they're pretty anti-JT/Liberals out West: https://edmontonjournal.com/news/national/the-road-to-canadas-covid-19-outbreak-timeline-of-federal-government-failure-at-border-to-slow-the-virus/ In terms of cases, as per Financial Times, Canada is tracking UK with 1 week lag. Under US, but with significantly less testing: https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1245106818344538126/photo/1 In terms of death, Canada is tracking US, with 2 weeks lag, but maybe it'll flatten because we've had 2 weeks of social-distancing: https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1245106818344538126/photo/1 Here's what worries me: COVID-19 cases in Ontario ICUs far higher than official figures https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1717764163674 "With no factory in Canada, domestic production of N95 masks is still months away" https://www.cbc.ca/news/investigates/canada-searching-masks-international-1.5517276

Nope. I'm not a Trudeau fan, but what he did was mostly right. The biggest mistake he made was waiting too late to close the borders (perhaps taking into account the recommendations of the WHO, under the influence of China). The second biggest mistake was shoving support for Canadians through the EI system, but he rectified fairly quickly with the 75% salary thing. In contrast, other than the smart closing of the border to China, Trump has done more than anyone else on earth, except possibly Xi, to maximize the deaths caused by the pandemic. Do you have a timeline that shows what Trudeau did was mostly right? I still remember him encouraging people going to eat at Chinese restaurants (on FB) in Late Feb / early March. It feels like we’ve been a many steps behind the US. Even today, data collection is spotty and testing is slow with a big backlog..

Spot on. The lack of basic understanding shown in early stages of this is beyond belief. I still believe they are downplaying the true possible numbers here. Two more weeks and we will know, by tomorrow US will likely have 200K+ infections. Shouldn’t PM Trudeau in Canada also be guilty of these war crimes? Basically all the political elite in Western countries should face trial?

Yeah US has really ramped up and put private sector to work. Canada was extremely late to close borders and testing is falling behind. Hopefully our curve is later and US can bail us out.

Masks also prevent asymptomatic carriers from spreading the virus! Less effective for personal protection, more effective to prevent spread. Fauci said they are reconsidering guidance as production ramps up.

incredible She's going from Shanghai to Wuxi. Near the end it shows the security measures in-place to screen local travellers even between provinces.

Remember what Trump sent to China? 17.8 tons of PPE Trump administration sent protective medical gear to China while he minimized the virus threat to US https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/29/opinions/coronavirus-personal-protective-equipment-obeidallah/index.html Followed the link in the article, sounds like it was private donations, maybe NGOs? State Department provided shipping: Feb 7: "This week the State Department has facilitated the transportation of nearly 17.8 tons of donated medical supplies to the Chinese people, including masks, gowns, gauze, respirators, and other vital materials." https://www.state.gov/the-united-states-announces-assistance-to-combat-the-novel-coronavirus/ At the time, everyone was sending China supplies.. https://www.canada.ca/en/global-affairs/news/2020/02/canada-supports-chinas-ongoing-response-to-novel-coronavirus-outbreak.html Canada sent medical supplies to China on Feb 9: "To support China’s ongoing response to the outbreak, Canada has deployed approximately 16 tonnes of personal protective equipment, such as clothing, face shields, masks, goggles and gloves to the country since February 4, 2020." https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/china-appeals-for-medical-supplies-to-be-sent-from-abroad Feb 6: "It has also urged the US to fulfil its promise of providing aid, a day after it accused Washington of spreading fear by pulling its citizens out and severely restricting travel for Chinese citizens. "China has noted that the United States has repeatedly expressed its willingness to provide assistance to China, and hopes that the relevant assistance will be provided soon," Foreign Ministry spokesman Hua Chunying said in a statement yesterday. .... An increasing number of countries - including South Korea, Japan, Britain, France, Turkey, Pakistan, Kazakhstan, Hungary, Iran, Belarus and Indonesia - have donated medical supplies. South Korea transported three million masks, 100,000 hazmat suits and 100,000 pairs of goggles in batches to Wuhan, while close ally Pakistan rounded up 300,000 medical masks, 800 hazmat suits and 6,800 pairs of gloves from public hospitals around the country to ship to China. Iran has also donated one million masks, while Britain brought in 50,000 gloves and 35,000 sets of protective suits and goggles on an evacuation chartered flight that later flew home 41 of its citizens. Yesterday, Ms Hua expressed gratitude to the Japanese for having donated large batches of masks, goggles and protective suits."

Thanks for the update. Is it 100 new cases just at that one hospital?

So far best response: South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore. Is it because they all have mandatory military service for men and the people are more alert about incoming threats (from North Korea, China, Malaysia)? Something to consider?

People need to start wearing face masks, even home made ones help. Such a cheap/quick solution to slow the spread and save lives. This should be national policy. https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/19/opinion/guidance-against-wearing-masks-coronavirus-is-wrong-you-should-cover-your-face/?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

WHO.. or ChinaHO?

I think your analytical skills are not of the highest order. Can't speak to your intellectual capacity, however you have continuously minimized the threat of COVID and used your credentials as a cudgel to push your agenda. The data clearly shows you were wrong about a large number of undiagnosed cases of coronavirus in Jan/Feb, which you repeatedly claimed. Meanwhile, Dalal has been posting good info for weeks, and I don't care what his profession is. Credentialism is unnecessary. Jeez. I just have to weigh in here. Orthopa simply weighed in with some on-the-ground experience that ran counter to the prevailing wisdom. For which he was treated quite roughly. I appreciated his input, right or wrong. +1 Agreed.

Shutdown makes sense, but you can’t do it China style. How are you gonna mass detain people and force them into quarantine camps? How are you gonna force people to stay in their homes?

NYC can’t even lockdown the city when it’s the epicentre, how can you lockdown the whole country? Need to find a US solution, can’t just copy China.

Chinese style lockdown in US is not practical. Lots of guns in the US..