Parsad Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 No, I don't want to make this political, but when the hell is the U.S. going to join the rest of the civilized world and implement gun control for it's citizens? 18 kids dead today...nuts! NRA will be in damage control for the next week and pulling up the second amendment. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Hamilton Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Agreed. Gun control, kicking out Reagan's religious right (and I'm a republican), coming up with a tax system that is progressive rather than the absurdly regressive one that has lead to no growth in median incomes in a decade, coming up with some kind of limits on how much the government will spend on your medical care through our new universal healthcare system...the U.S. has its work cut out for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I just read the story. My god that is horrific! CT already has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country though, and of course guns in schools are already completely banned nation wide (which is one reason these things seem to always happen in schools). This loon already broke the law bringing the gun(s?) into the school. How did restricting the principle/teachers/ and other adults from arming themselves help the situation? The worst of these mass-shootings always happen in gun-free zones (schools/post offices/cities that ban guns/movie theaters that ban guns/etc). How would banning guns stop something like this? Cocaine is completely banned, but does anyone want to tell me that if I wanted some I couldn't get some in sort order? And cocaine doesn't grow in my climate, yet any semi-competent machinist could turn out guns by the thousands in his basement. It is 300 year old technology, I don't think you can ban them. And I wouldn't want to if you could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Hamilton Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I just read the story. My god that is horrific! CT already has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country though, and of course guns in schools are already completely banned nation wide (which is one reason these things seem to always happen in schools). This loon already broke the law bringing the gun(s?) into the school. How did restricting the principle/teachers/ and other adults from arming themselves help the situation? The worst of these mass-shootings always happen in gun-free zones (schools/post offices/cities that ban guns/movie theaters that ban guns/etc). How would banning guns stop something like this? Cocaine is completely banned, but does anyone want to tell me that if I wanted some I couldn't get some in sort order? And cocaine doesn't grow in my climate, yet any semi-competent machinist could turn out guns by the thousands in his basement. It is 300 year old technology, I don't think you can ban them. And I wouldn't want to if you could. Yeah, but I'd prefer you have to go to the black market to get your cocaine. In the same way, I'd prefer that a guy who failed to take his psych meds couldn't walk into the local Walmart/Dick's/Bass Pro and pick up an AR15 and would have to go through some more difficult channels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matjone Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I have way too much distrust of our government to think it's a good idea to give them all the guns. I can see why people would want to after those kinds of incidents, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sswan11 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I'm an American who has lived in the UK and Germany, where there are almost no deaths from guns. The NRA argument "guns don't kill people, people do" is patently ridiculous. How much damage can a person do with a knife, relatively? And most of the US murders are in domestic violence situations. US gun laws are even arming the Mexican cartels. I'm from Seattle, near the Canadian border -- in Canada, murders are vastly lower per capita. Its just common sense that murders will increase with gun prevalence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 There are just too many guns floating around.... =( sad day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alekbaylee Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I'm an American who has lived in the UK and Germany, where there are almost no deaths from guns. The NRA argument "guns don't kill people, people do" is patently ridiculous. How much damage can a person do with a knife, relatively? And most of the US murders are in domestic violence situations. US gun laws are even arming the Mexican cartels. I'm from Seattle, near the Canadian border -- in Canada, murders are vastly lower per capita. Its just common sense that murders will increase with gun prevalence. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I just read the story. My god that is horrific! CT already has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country though, and of course guns in schools are already completely banned nation wide (which is one reason these things seem to always happen in schools). This loon already broke the law bringing the gun(s?) into the school. How did restricting the principle/teachers/ and other adults from arming themselves help the situation? The worst of these mass-shootings always happen in gun-free zones (schools/post offices/cities that ban guns/movie theaters that ban guns/etc). How would banning guns stop something like this? Cocaine is completely banned, but does anyone want to tell me that if I wanted some I couldn't get some in sort order? And cocaine doesn't grow in my climate, yet any semi-competent machinist could turn out guns by the thousands in his basement. It is 300 year old technology, I don't think you can ban them. And I wouldn't want to if you could. Yeah, but I'd prefer you have to go to the black market to get your cocaine. In the same way, I'd prefer that a guy who failed to take his psych meds couldn't walk into the local Walmart/Dick's/Bass Pro and pick up an AR15 and would have to go through some more difficult channels. Sorry I don't agree. I'd prefer a world where I could buy my cocaine at the grocery story by the pound and my fully automatic machine guns without a license. I'd prefer a world without all of the violence, poverty, and corruption that black markets create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRH Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I normally abstain from commenting on such things, but I can't help but add my opinion here. This quote sums it up. It is very similar to an argument made in "Bowling for Columbine": http://fromonesurvivortoanother.tumblr.com/post/27657456666/tw-school-shootings-the-day-after-columbine-i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERICOPOLY Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 The best weapon for home defense is a shotgun. Also the best for bird hunting. You don't even need to get it licenced in California. I don't buy the home defense argument for handguns -- informed gun people will always reach for the shotgun if there's an intruder. It's also more difficult for your child to shoot himself in the face, although not impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraven Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 For anyone who wants to make this political, now's not the time. For those of us with young kids in school, I can't imagine anything worse. To imagine some kid who went to school on a Friday just thinking of the nice weekend with the family. Maybe they'd watch some cartoons, play in the yard, go out to eat with the family. The terror they must have felt knowing a bullet is coming towards them. Now they will never know what it's like to grow up, hang out with their buddies, go to college, get their first car, have a girlfriend/boyfriend, get a job, have a family, etc. I really can't imagine anything sadder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 The best weapon for home defense is a shotgun. Also the best for bird hunting. You don't even need to get it licenced in California. I don't buy the home defense argument for handguns -- informed gun people will always reach for the shotgun if there's an intruder. It's also more difficult for your child to shoot himself in the face, although not impossible. I agree on the shotgun for home defense. But this latest shooting took place in someone's home? Why should you lose the right to defend yourself the moment you walk out of your door? Maybe some of the dead adults in CT today have guns at home that they are not allowed by law to take to work inside the school building. You are most at risk outside of your home, around other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txlaw Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Wow, just saw the news. This is terrible. Just makes you wonder what's wrong with the world . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 For anyone who wants to make this political, now's not the time. For those of us with young kids in school, I can't imagine anything worse. To imagine some kid who went to school on a Friday just thinking of the nice weekend with the family. Maybe they'd watch some cartoons, play in the yard, go out to eat with the family. The terror they must have felt knowing a bullet is coming towards them. Now they will never know what it's like to grow up, hang out with their buddies, go to college, get their first car, have a girlfriend/boyfriend, get a job, have a family, etc. I really can't imagine anything sadder. The problem is the gun control crowd can't wait to make this political. They have the legislation written and laying in wait for events like this. This is like Christmas come early to the gun-control lobbyist. Or like 9/11 to the military industrial complex. People who want to take away freedom always need tragedy, they wait for it, they feed off of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 For anyone who wants to make this political, now's not the time. For those of us with young kids in school, I can't imagine anything worse. To imagine some kid who went to school on a Friday just thinking of the nice weekend with the family. Maybe they'd watch some cartoons, play in the yard, go out to eat with the family. The terror they must have felt knowing a bullet is coming towards them. Now they will never know what it's like to grow up, hang out with their buddies, go to college, get their first car, have a girlfriend/boyfriend, get a job, have a family, etc. I really can't imagine anything sadder. So let's not make it political. Make it near impossible for 20-year old retards to obtain any sort of gun, so fewer parents have to go through what these people are now going through. Not only those parents but that entire community will never be the same for at least a generation. I can't imagine anything worse than a parent finding out their child died a horrific death, and not having the opportunity to protect them, console them and say good-bye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc75 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Sorry I don't agree. I'd prefer a world where I could buy my cocaine at the grocery story by the pound and my fully automatic machine guns without a license. I'd prefer a world without all of the violence, poverty, and corruption that black markets create. I don't understand how this point of view jibes with the statistical fact that the western countries with more stringent gun laws have lower rates of violence per capita than the US. (Can't speak for poverty and corruption, though I doubt the US is on top there either.) I'm also curious as to the ability to purchase automatic weapons without a license in your world. Why stop there? Should one also be able to purchase grenades and rocket launchers? And why even stop there? In general, do you believe that anyone, anywhere should be able to purchase any item someone is willing to sell? Honestly trying to understand your point of view, not pick a fight. There are gobs of very smart people who feel this way but I am totally confounded by the line of thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 For anyone who wants to make this political, now's not the time. For those of us with young kids in school, I can't imagine anything worse. To imagine some kid who went to school on a Friday just thinking of the nice weekend with the family. Maybe they'd watch some cartoons, play in the yard, go out to eat with the family. The terror they must have felt knowing a bullet is coming towards them. Now they will never know what it's like to grow up, hang out with their buddies, go to college, get their first car, have a girlfriend/boyfriend, get a job, have a family, etc. I really can't imagine anything sadder. The problem is the gun control crowd can't wait to make this political. They have the legislation written and laying in wait for events like this. This is like Christmas come early to the gun-control lobbyist. Or like 9/11 to the military industrial complex. People who want to take away freedom always need tragedy, they wait for it, they feed off of it. Should everyone be allowed to build their own nuclear weapons as well? Let's not confuse freedom of speech, liberty and choice with gun laws. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraven Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 For anyone who wants to make this political, now's not the time. For those of us with young kids in school, I can't imagine anything worse. To imagine some kid who went to school on a Friday just thinking of the nice weekend with the family. Maybe they'd watch some cartoons, play in the yard, go out to eat with the family. The terror they must have felt knowing a bullet is coming towards them. Now they will never know what it's like to grow up, hang out with their buddies, go to college, get their first car, have a girlfriend/boyfriend, get a job, have a family, etc. I really can't imagine anything sadder. So let's not make it political. Make it near impossible for 20-year old retards to obtain any sort of gun, so fewer parents have to go through what these people are now going through. Not only those parents but that entire community will never be the same for at least a generation. I can't imagine anything worse than a parent finding out their child died a horrific death, and not having the opportunity to protect them, console them and say good-bye! Is it really a matter of guns? How about that an animal is going to find a way to do what an animal is going to do? So instead of a gun they'll buy the Anarchy Handbook or something and build a bomb out of a paper clip and baby powder. I don't see the issue right now as pro gun control or anti gun control. This country is too tolerant of animals. The status as a human being has been lost. They should be treated accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtermdave Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Wow, just saw the news. This is terrible. Just makes you wonder what's wrong with the world . . . I think it's what's wrong with human psychology. If you're already disturbed, seeing the shooting in Oregon gives social proof for going out and doing something similar. Just like airplane crashes increase after a first well-publicized one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 So let's not make it political. Make it near impossible for 20-year old retards to obtain any sort of gun, so fewer parents have to go through what these people are now going through. Not only those parents but that entire community will never be the same for at least a generation. I can't imagine anything worse than a parent finding out their child died a horrific death, and not having the opportunity to protect them, console them and say good-bye! I agree with everything you just said, but let me point out that it is already impossible for a 20 year old to legally have a handgun in CT. You need to be 21 to buy, own, or even apply for a permit to carry a handgun in CT. And it is impossible for anyone to legally bring a gun into a school in CT. These things are already illegal (he broke a ton of laws before he ever pulled the trigger for the first time), I don't know how you make them impossible (see my comments on drugs). A strip search or medal detectors to enter a school building? Turn our schools over to the TSA and make them like our airports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc75 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Is it really a matter of guns? How about that an animal is going to find a way to do what an animal is going to do? So instead of a gun they'll buy the Anarchy Handbook or something and build a bomb out of a paper clip and baby powder. I don't see the issue right now as pro gun control or anti gun control. This country is too tolerant of animals. The status as a human being has been lost. They should be treated accordingly. I'm skeptical of this claim. I think guns provide a type of immediate, personalized, action at a distance that is very seductive to the deranged mind. You can confront your tormentors face to face and exert your power from many feet away. Perfect for the hero coward. I haven't checked, but I think there's a large margin of safety in betting that the statistics bear this out: Countries with stricter gun laws likely do not have any higher occurrences of bombings etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deepValue Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 The last thing we need is to create another black market for the Mexican cartels to profit from. They need American guns right now, but they'll be supplying Americans with guns in no time once it becomes profitable to do so. The problem with freedom is it's hard to see the benefits until they're gone. 50 years ago, I'd probably think banning recreational drug use was a good idea. I don't think anyone today that doesn't have a political motive believes that the ban is a net positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compoundinglife Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Wow, just saw the news. This is terrible. Just makes you wonder what's wrong with the world . . . I think it's what's wrong with human psychology. If you're already disturbed, seeing the shooting in Oregon gives social proof for going out and doing something similar. Just like airplane crashes increase after a first well-publicized one. Malcom Gladwell wrote about this phenomoen in "Tipping Point" with relation to teen suicide in Micronesia. I thought it was an excellent book. "No. I think it's much more than that, because once you start to understand this pattern you start to see it everywhere. I'm convinced that ideas and behaviors and new products move through a population very much like a disease does. This isn't just a metaphor, in other words. I'm talking about a very literal analogy. One of the things I explore in the book is that ideas can be contagious in exactly the same way that a virus is. One chapter, for example, deals with the very strange epidemic of teenage suicide in the South Pacific islands of Micronesia. In the 1970's and 1980's, Micronesia had teen suicide rates ten times higher than anywhere else in the world. Teenagers were literally being infected with the suicide bug, and one after another they were killing themselves in exactly the same way under exactly the same circumstances. We like to use words like contagiousness and infectiousness just to apply to the medical realm. But I assure you that after you read about what happened in Micronesia you'll be convinced that behavior can be transmitted from one person to another as easily as the flu or the measles can. In fact, I don't think you have to go to Micronesia to see this pattern in action. Isn't this the explanation for the current epidemic of teen smoking in this country? And what about the rash of mass shootings we're facing at the moment--from Columbine through the Atlanta stockbroker through the neo-Nazi in Los Angeles?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Wow, just saw the news. This is terrible. Just makes you wonder what's wrong with the world . . . I think it's what's wrong with human psychology. If you're already disturbed, seeing the shooting in Oregon gives social proof for going out and doing something similar. Just like airplane crashes increase after a first well-publicized one. I was just watching on TV last night they arrested a few people for a credible plot to kill Justin Beiber (my daughter was horrified). The guy admitted that he didn't want to be "a nobody". There will always be the crazies, looking for notoriety any way they can get it. The media is to blame for this as much as anything else. In short order we will know everything about this elementary school shooter. If he was looking for notoriety he got it. It may be infamy rather than fame, but that is probably what he was after anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts