So far, it has been a year of bloodbath

[alertmeipp]

Hopefully, I learned something from the tuition.

 

[Guest]

Dude, what are you invested in??? The market is up a lot this year.

[finetrader]

Commodities are good investment in the BEGINNING of a recovery.

 

Levered companies cut both ways.

 

Timing is everything.

 

[alertmeipp]

  On 11/8/2012 at 1:30 PM, stahleyp said:

Dude, what are you invested in??? The market is up a lot this year.

 

As suggested by finetrader.

 

Commodities (and the worst one like ATPG and I sold OSTK for this crap)

 

And VXX

 

 

[alertmeipp]

  On 11/8/2012 at 3:45 PM, finetrader said:

Commodities are good investment in the BEGINNING of a recovery.

 

Levered companies cut both ways.

 

Timing is everything.

 

You are a smart man.

[Parsad]

  On 11/8/2012 at 4:44 PM, alertmeipp said:

  Quote

Dude, what are you invested in??? The market is up a lot this year.

 

As suggested by finetrader.

 

Commodities (and the worst one like ATPG and I sold OSTK for this crap)

 

And VXX

 

Doh!  Alertmeipp...after everything we've been through, you sold OSTK?  Don't worry, we all have rough years, but it's a marathon, not a sprint...except for Ericopoly who will be out of the game in 2015!  Cheers!

[watsa_is_a_randian_hero]

  On 11/8/2012 at 4:44 PM, alertmeipp said:

  Quote

Dude, what are you invested in??? The market is up a lot this year.

 

As suggested by finetrader.

 

Commodities (and the worst one like ATPG and I sold OSTK for this crap)

 

And VXX

 

VXX is a suckers play.  1 word: Contango. 

[alertmeipp]

  On 11/8/2012 at 5:12 PM, Parsad said:

  Quote

  Quote

Dude, what are you invested in??? The market is up a lot this year.

 

As suggested by finetrader.

 

Commodities (and the worst one like ATPG and I sold OSTK for this crap)

 

And VXX

 

Doh!  Alertmeipp...after everything we've been through, you sold OSTK?  Don't worry, we all have rough years, but it's a marathon, not a sprint...except for Ericopoly who will be out of the game in 2015!  Cheers!

 

Yes, out at 6.. got some ATPG preferred with it. Doh!

[Ross812]

I've owned some PRIS.B for two years. It's not exclusive to commodities... 6% position now worth ~1%

[alwaysinvert]

I hear you!

 

It's been a humbling year for me too. Only just pulling back to break-even for the year after a rough ride, where my valuation skills certainly have come into question as events I never even considered have been unfolding.

 

I guess I should have just bought Apple in January, huh.

 

 

[Uccmal]

alert, hang in.  We all pay tuition from tome to time.

 

a.

[writser]

Holding commodities and VXX is no "investing"; it is speculating.

[finetrader]

^{You are a smart man}

 

Smart! maybe

Wiser by learning from past mistake.  Most probably.

[mikazo]

  On 11/8/2012 at 6:25 PM, Uccmal said:

alert, hang in.  We all pay tuition from tome to time.

 

a.

 

In the two years since I've started playing with stocks and only about 10 months since I started value investing, I haven't had to "pay tuition" yet. Is it only a matter of time?

[rkbabang]

  On 11/8/2012 at 7:05 PM, mikazo said:

In the two years since I've started playing with stocks and only about 10 months since I started value investing, I haven't had to "pay tuition" yet. Is it only a matter of time?

 

Yes. You picked a good two years to start with.  I started investing in 1996 and thought I could do no wrong,  4 years later I learned that I could.

 

I kept 20 shares of Cisco that I still hold with a cost basis of $66.56 to remind myself every time I look at my portfolio.

[mikazo]

  On 11/8/2012 at 7:08 PM, rkbabang said:

I kept 20 shares of Cisco that I still hold with a cost basis of $66.56 to remind myself every time I look at my portfolio.

 

That's actually a pretty good idea. I hope for your sake and mine that CSCO goes back up above $66.56 :)

[writser]

I do a similar thing; whenever I do something stupid I force myself to put a chunk of the money invested in that into Berkshire, never to be touched again. If I'm lucky I will have only Berkshire in my portfolio in a couple of years and I don't have to bother trying to beat the market anymore :)

[alertmeipp]

  On 11/8/2012 at 6:25 PM, Uccmal said:

alert, hang in.  We all pay tuition from tome to time.

 

a.

 

Once in a while, I will have those go big or go home moments. Mostly end up going home because of my optimistic mindset..

 

The one I am currently looking at is FTP.TO.

[finetrader]

  Quote

The one I am currently looking at is FTP.TO.

 

A levered company, selling commodities...

[alertmeipp]

  On 11/8/2012 at 8:05 PM, finetrader said:

  Quote

The one I am currently looking at is FTP.TO.

 

A levered company, selling commodities...

 

Bingo. Problem identified.

[enoch01]

  On 11/8/2012 at 7:53 PM, alertmeipp said:

The one I am currently looking at is FTP.TO.

 

A cash-burning seller of commodities where there isn't a clear supply shortage?  I haven't been able to crack the Fortress Paper nut.  I read the thread, but in the end I couldn't figure what it was worth.  Lots of people are running away from the stock these days, so I guess it's worth keeping an eye on.

[kevin4u2]

  On 11/8/2012 at 7:53 PM, alertmeipp said:

  Quote

alert, hang in.  We all pay tuition from tome to time.

 

a.

 

Once in a while, I will have those go big or go home moments. Mostly end up going home because of my optimistic mindset..

 

The one I am currently looking at is FTP.TO.

 

Like a moth to a flame...

[Ross812]

Fortress reminds me too much of another company I invested in, Imperial Sugar.

 

I bought it for $8 after they received $14 in cash a share from an insurance settlement after a plant explosion. They ended up paying roughly $3/share in damages. They had  $11/share in cash plus a second productive sugar mill, all of their corporate headquarters in Sugar Land (suburb of Houston) Texas, and 50% ownership in a natural sweeteners company growing at 30% (heard of steviacane/truia) . I watched them burn all that cash rebuilding the destroyed plant only to discover there was not a profitable market for refined sugar. I watched a 40 cent dollar destroyed by poor management and legacy pension obligations (about $3 a share I had not accounted for, always watch for an underfunded pension!). Louis Dreyfus just bought them for $6.35 a share ($210 million). 210 million for what is now 40 million worth of the Steviacane company now growing at 20%, a new 250 million state of the art sugar refinery, a second fully depreciated refinery on the books for 90 million, a 25 million dollar JV with Cargril, and 15 million of corporate HQ (397 million total). Shareholders were happy for the offer when IPSU hit $3 a share.

 

You can do everything right, and get screwed by poor management. You may think you are holding a 50 cent dollar only to discover a private bid is only going to be for 50 cents on the dollar. I would only touch another one of these situations if you showed me a 25 cent dollar, and I would really have to think about it.

[arbcon]

Ross.absolutely right on Imperial...the company was worth much more than the final sales price. i was able to exit at high prices because I couldn't get the numbers I needed on Stevia to stay involved. The problem wasn't the assets..they are real...but the management...good post.

[Olmsted]

I was in Imperial too.  What a management sh**show.  Thankfully was able to exit before the loss got too bad.