opihiman2 Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 Thanks for the responses! Just wondering, is there a formula that determines the expense ratio from the fund size? That is, if the asset base doubles in the fund, how much lower will the expense ratio go? I'm in Shane's camp: trying to find a good, ethical active money manager.
mhdousa Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 Thanks for the responses! Just wondering, is there a formula that determines the expense ratio from the fund size? That is, if the asset base doubles in the fund, how much lower will the expense ratio go? I'm in Shane's camp: trying to find a good, ethical active money manager. It's up the individual managers. For example, Fairholme has had the same ER (1%) since inception, despite now having assets of almost $20b. Other funds (Bridgeway is one rare example) change the ER based on performance. One of the Bridgeway funds (BRAGX) has had very poor recent performance so it actually has a -0.51% (negative 0.51%) ER right now. I believe Francis returned his fees to his clients one year when he wasn't happy with the performance.
Parsad Posted March 26, 2011 Author Posted March 26, 2011 Parsad, Chou now runs quite a few funds, as someone who has never worked in the industry this might be an incorrect assumption, but do you think he is spread too thin? I have a very hard time balancing work/school/and personal investing, I think running more than a 1-2 funds would be a monumental task. Does he have a team of analysts (If so are they good?), or is he a one-man show? I am very interested in finding an active manager to invest with, I like that he has solid performance and people here have some personal knowledge of him which allows me to feel more comfortable... also because I don't do anything with derivatives it's attractive that he does. No, not at all. It's really dependent on the manager. Francis has been in the industry for a long time, and he's had a very broad base of experiences between his funds and Fairfax. Remember, his circle of competence is probably as wide as Prem's. There are a number of businesses that he probably knows intimately and whenever they fall in a range that he likes, he can just snap them up because of that base of knowledge he has. As far as spread too thin. No, I think he may have been spread too thin when he was managing about $750M with no assistant and answering over 50 calls a day. That's when he hired an administrative assistant! His funds are pretty broad as well, and his universe of investments is pretty wide still. Some people like analysts, some don't. At some point, maybe he'll hire one, but only he'll know when he's comfortable with that decision. I think sometimes investors overanalyze a manager, instead of looking at the manager's motives, ethics, intellectual framework and performance. If they have a vested interest in their own funds, they aren't going to do anything to jeopardize that, and will acknowledge when they are overworked and need to hire assistance. But alot of managers prefer to work alone or with a very limited team...I don't see us hiring any analysts ever. Cheers!
Shane Posted March 26, 2011 Posted March 26, 2011 Sanjeev, Your always very helpful, thank you! mhdousa - Just noticed I left you out, my apologies thanks for the insight.
Guest Posted March 27, 2011 Posted March 27, 2011 There is no 12b-1 fee on the Chou America funds. They have been eliminated. When did that happen? According to their prospectus, it still has one. "Rule 12b-1 Distribution and Shareholder Service Fees The Trust has adopted a Rule 12b-1 plan under which the Funds pay the Distributor up to 0.25% of the average daily net assets of the Funds for distribution services and the servicing of shareholder accounts. Rule 12b-1 payments to participating financial institutions begin to accrue immediately on a daily basis and typically are paid on a quarterly basis. " Morningstar also says there is one. http://financials.morningstar.com/fund/expense.html?t=US1704311000®ion=USA&culture=en-us
returnonmycapital Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 There is no 12b-1 fee on the Chou America funds. They have been eliminated. When did that happen? According to their prospectus, it still has one. "Rule 12b-1 Distribution and Shareholder Service Fees The Trust has adopted a Rule 12b-1 plan under which the Funds pay the Distributor up to 0.25% of the average daily net assets of the Funds for distribution services and the servicing of shareholder accounts. Rule 12b-1 payments to participating financial institutions begin to accrue immediately on a daily basis and typically are paid on a quarterly basis. " Morningstar also says there is one. http://financials.morningstar.com/fund/expense.html?t=US1704311000®ion=USA&culture=en-us In the next Prospectus, which I believe is coming out in April, you will find that the 12b-1 fee has been eliminated for both funds.
Guest Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 There is no 12b-1 fee on the Chou America funds. They have been eliminated. When did that happen? According to their prospectus, it still has one. "Rule 12b-1 Distribution and Shareholder Service Fees The Trust has adopted a Rule 12b-1 plan under which the Funds pay the Distributor up to 0.25% of the average daily net assets of the Funds for distribution services and the servicing of shareholder accounts. Rule 12b-1 payments to participating financial institutions begin to accrue immediately on a daily basis and typically are paid on a quarterly basis. " Morningstar also says there is one. http://financials.morningstar.com/fund/expense.html?t=US1704311000®ion=USA&culture=en-us In the next Prospectus, which I believe is coming out in April, you will find that the 12b-1 fee has been eliminated for both funds. That's awesome to hear! I'd like to read more about the expenses too. If you don't mind me asking, how did you find this out? Thanks for the insight! :)
returnonmycapital Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 I don't know what sort of wording will be used in the revised prospectus, but in our last get-together, Francis stated that he had decided to stop accruing the 12b-1 Distribution fee. He also mentioned the Shareholder Service fee and, as far as I know, he has no plans to charge for that either. He is concerned with doing what is right. This being his first experience as a US-registered manager, he is having to learn about the differences between Canada and the US. And there are some pretty big differences.
coc Posted March 29, 2011 Posted March 29, 2011 Parsad, Chou now runs quite a few funds, as someone who has never worked in the industry this might be an incorrect assumption, but do you think he is spread too thin? I have a very hard time balancing work/school/and personal investing, I think running more than a 1-2 funds would be a monumental task. Does he have a team of analysts (If so are they good?), or is he a one-man show? I am very interested in finding an active manager to invest with, I like that he has solid performance and people here have some personal knowledge of him which allows me to feel more comfortable... also because I don't do anything with derivatives it's attractive that he does. No, not at all. It's really dependent on the manager. Francis has been in the industry for a long time, and he's had a very broad base of experiences between his funds and Fairfax. Remember, his circle of competence is probably as wide as Prem's. There are a number of businesses that he probably knows intimately and whenever they fall in a range that he likes, he can just snap them up because of that base of knowledge he has. As far as spread too thin. No, I think he may have been spread too thin when he was managing about $750M with no assistant and answering over 50 calls a day. That's when he hired an administrative assistant! His funds are pretty broad as well, and his universe of investments is pretty wide still. Some people like analysts, some don't. At some point, maybe he'll hire one, but only he'll know when he's comfortable with that decision. I think sometimes investors overanalyze a manager, instead of looking at the manager's motives, ethics, intellectual framework and performance. If they have a vested interest in their own funds, they aren't going to do anything to jeopardize that, and will acknowledge when they are overworked and need to hire assistance. But alot of managers prefer to work alone or with a very limited team...I don't see us hiring any analysts ever. Cheers! Fairholme's investment operation is two people - Bruce and Charlie. $25B and counting!
Guest Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I don't know what sort of wording will be used in the revised prospectus, but in our last get-together, Francis stated that he had decided to stop accruing the 12b-1 Distribution fee. He also mentioned the Shareholder Service fee and, as far as I know, he has no plans to charge for that either. He is concerned with doing what is right. This being his first experience as a US-registered manager, he is having to learn about the differences between Canada and the US. And there are some pretty big differences. New prospectus is out. You were right! :) http://www.chouamerica.com/pdf/2011.05.01Prospectus.pdf Distribution and/or Service (12b-1) Fees 0.00% Total Annual Fund Operating Expenses After Waivers and Reimbursements (2) 1.50
Parsad Posted May 13, 2011 Author Posted May 13, 2011 Francis is one of the few people I would trust with my life. He will always do the right thing for investors, and always ahead of his own interests. It's why Prem holds him in such high esteem. I'm proud to call him my friend! Cheers!
prunes Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Parsad, How much of his own net worth does Francis have in his funds?
Parsad Posted May 13, 2011 Author Posted May 13, 2011 The U.S. Funds are new. I think Francis has a signficant portion of his net worth in his Canadian funds. You would have to contact him for that number. Cheers!
mhdousa Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Parsad, How much of his own net worth does Francis have in his funds? From the 5/11 SAI, Francis has between 500k-1m in each of the two funds.
gfp Posted May 18, 2011 Posted May 18, 2011 still nibbling on overstock http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1130713/000114420411030717/xslF345X03/v223232_ex.xml
accutronman Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 I see we have a ticker symbol for the Equity Opportunity fund: CHOEX. Now if the performance of the fund would only take off.
mhdousa Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 Mr. B or anyone else, Anyone know if there's been any progress getting these funds on Fidelity? I'm trying to invest some IRA money and so would prefer not to go through the process of transferring these assets to somewhere else. I called the fund, and the guy answering the phone had no idea when it would happen. He also told me that the funds weren't available at ANY brokerages (even though we know they're available at Schwab and Scottrade). Thanks! -M
bookie71 Posted August 1, 2011 Posted August 1, 2011 They don't seem to be available on my Schwab account.
MrB Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 Will check on Fidelity. Is available on Schwab. Log into your online Schwab account. go to "Research" and enter one of the two tickers CHOEZ or CHOEX into the "Enter name or Symbol" box at the top left hand of the "Research" page. Alternatively copy one of the following links into the address bar of your browser after having logged in. https://investing.schwab.com/secure/cc/nn/gw/wsod?path=/retail/research/mutualfunds/summary.asp&symbol=CHOEZ https://investing.schwab.com/secure/cc/nn/gw/wsod?path=/retail/research/mutualfunds/summary.asp&symbol=CHOEX I have a Schwab account, so let me know if you run into trouble and I can speak to my account rep.
bookie71 Posted August 2, 2011 Posted August 2, 2011 It says,"Not available at Schwab" (after the chart)
mhdousa Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 CHOEX (Chou Equity) most recent top holdings. Cash is down from 65% last quarter to the 30s now: As of June 30, 2011 Holdings percentage of assets Overstock.com 13.4% Sears Holdings Corp. 8.5% UTStarcom Inc. 7.1% Sprint Nextel Corp. 5.8% Asta Funding Inc. 5.2% Goldman Sachs Group 4.8% Berkshire Hathaway-A 4.8% The Gap Inc. 4.6% RadioShack Corp. 4.5% Office Depot 4.4%
Guest misterstockwell Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Ouch! My one year results are -20% for the Equity fund, and -15% for the Income fund. So much for outsourcing some of my investing capital in the name of diversification.
PlanMaestro Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 CHOEX (Chou Equity) most recent top holdings. Cash is down from 65% last quarter to the 30s now: As of June 30, 2011 Holdings percentage of assets Overstock.com 13.4% Sears Holdings Corp. 8.5% UTStarcom Inc. 7.1% Sprint Nextel Corp. 5.8% Asta Funding Inc. 5.2% Goldman Sachs Group 4.8% Berkshire Hathaway-A 4.8% The Gap Inc. 4.6% RadioShack Corp. 4.5% Office Depot 4.4% No banks? And so many distressed retailers.
AZ_Value Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 CHOEX (Chou Equity) most recent top holdings. Cash is down from 65% last quarter to the 30s now: As of June 30, 2011 Holdings percentage of assets Overstock.com 13.4% Sears Holdings Corp. 8.5% UTStarcom Inc. 7.1% Sprint Nextel Corp. 5.8% Asta Funding Inc. 5.2% Goldman Sachs Group 4.8% Berkshire Hathaway-A 4.8% The Gap Inc. 4.6% RadioShack Corp. 4.5% Office Depot 4.4% No banks? And so many distressed retailers. I think Chou held some BAC and JPM warrants last time I checked. I would really love to know what is the obsession with OSTK from the whole Watsa crew. I personally don't get it.
txlaw Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 As of September 30, 2011: Top 10 Holdings percentage of assets Overstock.com 12.0% UTStarcom Holdings 7.4% MBIA Inc. 5.5% Aeropostale Inc. 5.5% Office Depot 5.0% Berkshire Hathaway-A 4.8% The Gap Inc. 4.8% AbitibiBowater Inc. 4.7% Citigroup Inc. 4.5% Sears Holdings Corp. 4.5% 58.7%
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