US is a poor country

[LC]

The US does a great job making massive amounts of edible food as cheaply as possible. I do question the sustainability. We pump dead soil full of ammonia, we suck water and drain natural water tables, and then every end product is either bathed in bleach or assaulted with radiation to sterilize it. Quality sucks, however. But the goal is not quality, the goal is to feed 400 million people as cheaply as possible.

 

It's no wonder we are also the leader in developing drugs to control for obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure. 

[73 Reds]

12 minutes ago, Sinbius said:

 

The only numbers on the right that I see in the last link is the Geni index relative to wealth concentration...they show that the concentration of wealth in US is almost the same of what we have in Saudi Arabia...

 

...that's one of the reasons in my previous link data show data how the median wealth in US is less than that of poor countries like Italy or Spain or Portugal...

It looks to me like you want to push a narrative.  That is fine but don't use data that really doesn't tell anywhere near the whole story of how folks define "wealth".  Curious, how many people are lined up to immigrate to Saudi Arabia and/or are willing to risk their lives to enter illegally?

[Sinbius]

2 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

It looks to me like you want to push a narrative.  That is fine but don't use data that really doesn't tell anywhere near the whole story of how folks define "wealth".  Curious, how many people are lined up to immigrate to Saudi Arabia and/or are willing to risk their lives to enter illegally?

My comparison with Saudi Arabia was not about human rights...or living standard...

 

It was pretty clear ( and with numbers) about wealth concentration...inequality...and I posted it to clarify why even if US has big average GDP per person...the median wealth per person is low....

[73 Reds]

3 minutes ago, Sinbius said:

My comparison with Saudi Arabia was not about human rights...or living standard...

 

It was pretty clear ( and with numbers) about wealth concentration...inequality...and I posted it to clarify why even if US has big average GDP per person...the median wealth per person is low....

And as per my earlier post there are plenty of reasons why high income doesn't necessarily translate to high per capita wealth.  Again, how many women in Saudi Arabia feel "wealthy"?  Your data says nothing about whether or not the US is a  "poor country".

Edited 15 hours ago by 73 Reds
word

[Sinbius]

5 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

And as per my earlier post there are plenty of reasons why high income doesn't necessarily translate to high per capita wealth.  Again, how many women in Saudi Arabia feel "wealthy"?  Your data says nothing about whether or not the US is a  "poor country".

 

The data say the american people (most of them) have less net worth than Italian or Spanish or Portugal etc...If you want to think that means being rich and that's the miracle of american dream... ok...I would not call that being rich but everybody has his standards...

Edited 15 hours ago by Sinbius

[73 Reds]

Just now, Sinbius said:

 

The data say the american people (most of them) have less net worth than Italian or Spanish or Portugal etc...If you want to think that means being rich ok...I would not call that being rich but everybody has his standards...

And you are ignoring even some of your own data.  Even if I were to agree with you and your data it says nothing as to whether the USA is a poor country, the point you are trying to make.  If you choose one singular metric out of too many variables to even mention, that tells us nothing other than you are pushing a narrative. 

[Sinbius]

Why you call it my data? It is not mine...

I'm not pushing narrative...I am sharing  data... American have  low median wealth...that's not a narrative...or a story...or a rumor...it comes from data of which I shared the source...

 

If you have different data with source about it you are welcome to share it...

 

 

[73 Reds]

4 minutes ago, Sinbius said:

Why you call it my data? It is not mine...

I'm not pushing narrative...I am sharing  data... American have  low median wealth...that's not a narrative...or a story...or a rumor...it comes from data of which I shared the source...

 

If you have different data with source about it you are welcome to share it...

 

 

@Sinbius the only data point that matters is the definition of a "poor country".  You can have the last word because it is hard to have a discussion with someone who lacks perspective.  

[Sinbius]

If you define how much a country is rich by its GPD per capita than US is a rich country...

 

If you define how much a country is rich by median wealth than for sure is everything but rich...

 

Using GDP per capita in a country with so much inequality is misleading...

[throw123]

Salaries and the purchasing power of those salaries are often higher in the US than in much of Europe and the UK. Part of the difference may come down to lifestyle and cultural norms. In parts of Europe, particularly Italy, it's not unusual for people to live with their parents well into adulthood, which can significantly reduce living costs. There also tends to be less emphasis on consumer spending in some European countries. Whenever I visit the US, I'm often surprised by how much money people seem willing to spend on things that many Europeans might consider non-essential.

[whiskybravo]

35 minutes ago, Sinbius said:

If you define how much a country is rich by its GPD per capita than US is a rich country...

 

If you define how much a country is rich by median wealth than for sure is everything but rich...

 

Using GDP per capita in a country with so much inequality is misleading...

To put some real-world context on these statistics, my wife has relatives living in Italy who perfectly illustrate how a country can have high median wealth but a stagnant economy. 

They inherited a family home, so they pay zero rent or mortgage. They live in a multi-generational household, partially supported by a grandmother’s pension. The mother works as a schoolteacher, the father has never worked, and the adult children in their 20s and 30s mostly hang out because local career opportunities are scarce.

 

Their daily purchasing power is incredibly low. They are asset rich but cash poor. The adult children are trapped in a system where they can't or don’t want to find high paying jobs to build their own independent lives, so they rely on generational safety cushions.

 

A friend of ours over there jokes about them as morti di fame.

Edited 14 hours ago by whiskybravo

[Gregmal]

Whether it is, or isn’t, who gives a fuck? What does the relative usefulness of such a thing do for one? Is there a Polymarket wager or something? Is this due diligence for Amazon or Costco? Whats even the point of debating rankings of country wealth? A nice follow up competition to the World Cup? Feel like I’m totally missing something here cuz I’m fully aware that there’s rich people and poor people everywhere and I don’t think I need to know that some random average statistic person makes an extra $5k per year…

Edited 14 hours ago by Gregmal

[Sinbius]

5 minutes ago, throw123 said:

Salaries and the purchasing power of those salaries are often higher in the US than in much of Europe and the UK. Part of the difference may come down to lifestyle and cultural norms. In parts of Europe, particularly Italy, it's not unusual for people to live with their parents well into adulthood, which can significantly reduce living costs. There also tends to be less emphasis on consumer spending in some European countries. Whenever I visit the US, I'm often surprised by how much money people seem willing to spend on things that many Europeans might consider non-essential.

 

False statement according to ⁠World Inequality Database (WID) and the ⁠OECD Income and Wealth Distribution Databases.

 

The U.S. bottom 50% generally possesses less real purchasing power than their counterparts in Western and Northern Europe.

 

 

 

 

 

[EBITDAg]

The US has higher median disposable income than everyone but Luxembourg, and by a considerable margin generally (~30% higher than #10 Netherlands). US also has a lower median age- 5-10 years younger than most European countries.

 

You can argue this a million ways, some that make the US better and some worse. What I think is clear is that anyone who has even slightly above average intelligence and work ethic, it's much easier to build wealth in the US than elsewhere.

[Eldad]

Just now, EBITDAg said:

The US has higher median disposable income than everyone but Luxembourg, and by a considerable margin generally (~30% higher than #10 Netherlands). US also has a lower median age- 5-10 years younger than most European countries.

 

You can argue this a million ways, some that make the US better and some worse. What I think is clear is that anyone who has even slightly above average intelligence and work ethic, it's much easier to build wealth in the US than elsewhere.

Yes. Almost 10% of the country are millionaires. Accounting for 40% of the worlds millionaires with only 4.3% of global population. 
 

The culture of the US poor is very messed up and it is a very free country. If they wish to spend their time drinking and gambling they are free to do so. As someone alluded to before, studies have shown all you have to do in America to reach the middle class is get married and stay married. This is obviously an unpopular fact with one of our political parties that may not have the real best interest of their constituents at heart. 
 

Arguing that it is not a rich country is just trolling. 

[whiskybravo]

21 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Whether it is, or isn’t, who gives a fuck? What does the relative usefulness of such a thing do for one? Is there a Polymarket wager or something? Is this due diligence for Amazon or Costco? Whats even the point of debating rankings of country wealth? A nice follow up competition to the World Cup? Feel like I’m totally missing something here cuz I’m fully aware that there’s rich people and poor people everywhere and I don’t think I need to know that some random average statistic person makes an extra $5k per year…

Good point!  This thread was started to provoke.  Look at the title.

[Sinbius]

6 minutes ago, whiskybravo said:

Good point!  This thread was started to provoke.  Look at the title.

 

Folks you forgot you are not in the "investment idea" part of this forum...you are in the "general discussion" where there are threads about politics and one also only on telling jokes...if you don't have interest in this topic why are you here?

Edited 13 hours ago by Sinbius

[Malmqky]

I know someone who has never made more than $20 an hour, and is going to retired a millionaire just off of 401k/IRA contirbutions and a lucky house purchase in 2010ish.

 

Granted that same person is beyond frugal, but I don’t think that changes the point.

 

You can come from the mud in the US, and still make it.

[cubsfan]

The only thing I care about is that there are substantial numbers below the poverty line.  

 

But many of them certainly  have opportunities, but don't pursue them.   Mostly due to bad choices.  But even the disasters have plenty to eat and ready access to health care.

[cubsfan]

2 minutes ago, Malmqky said:

I know someone who has never made more than $20 an hour, and is going to retired a millionaire just off of 401k/IRA contirbutions and a lucky house purchase in 2010ish.

 

Granted that same person is beyond frugal, but I don’t think that changes the point.

 

You can come from the mud in the US, and still make it.

 

No doubt - there are so many stories like this. Just look at JD Vance or Rashidad Talib.

[Sinbius]

I show data and the source of the data in an investment forum...and people reply with anecdotal evidence  

[Eldad]

2 minutes ago, Sinbius said:

I show data and the source of the data in an investment forum...and people reply with anecdotal evidence  

Everyone here knows that the data shows that it is by far the richest country. If you want to twist and bend the data to troll you may get some anecdotes. The anecdotes are probably more true than cherry picked data. 

[thepupil]

4 minutes ago, Sinbius said:

I show data and the source of the data in an investment forum...and people reply with anecdotal evidence  

i don't think people really dispute the data, just the interpretation / implication. 

 

Like if Canadians/Aussies at a given %ile have more wealth but it's all tied up in extremely expensive real estate, I would not dispute the data that says your %ile Aussie is wealthier, but I'm not sure that indicates its better to be that particular Aussie vs that particular american.

 

I don't disagree with some of your points.....everything is trade-offs and complex. 

[Malmqky]

19 minutes ago, Sinbius said:

I show data and the source of the data in an investment forum...and people reply with anecdotal evidence  

The U.S. has insane wealth disparity. Obviously. 

[whiskybravo]

50 minutes ago, Sinbius said:

 

Folks you forgot you are not in the "investment idea" part of this forum...you are in the "general discussion" where there are threads about politics and one also only on telling jokes...if you don't have interest in this topic why are you here?

Fair enough! It is absolutely the right spot and it’s been a fun debate.  But you have to admit, starting a thread titled US is a poor country is a pretty massive piece of bait.