Outliers by Gladwell

[Viking]

I just recently finished Malcolm Gladwell's recent bestseller, Outliers (the story of success). I enjoyed it very much.

 

At one point he talks about 10,000 hours (time needed to invest to beome really good at anything)... this perhaps helps explain to me what most people fail at managing their own money... 

 

I look at my past and I pass the 10,000 hour test (note, just because you spend 10,000 hours at something doesn't mean you will be good at it). It is more of a necessary but not sufficient thing...

 

Anyone else read the book? Thoughts?

[mpauls]

Yes.  You got it right.  The fact that someone does for 10,000 hrs doesn't guarantee anything.  It's hugely important to spend your time learning the right kind of concepts, ideas, etc., and it is very easy to stumble into the wrong things.  If an individual buys into what they learned in business school then he/she is certain not only to learn the wrong sort of things, but by the time the individual figures this out it may be too late to really benefit (insofar as an outlier is concerned).

 

Similar in sports, practice does not make perfect, 'perfect practice' makes perfect. 

 

 

 

[claphands22]

Great book, I posted some of my crappy thoughts about it before.

 

http://cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/index.php?topic=79.0

 

At one point he talks about 10,000 hours (time needed to invest to become really good at anything)... this perhaps helps explain to me what most people fail at managing their own money...

 

Yeap, I agree with ya there.

 

One of the other things I found fascinating was the amount of luck you need. The formula for an outlier is 10,000 hrs + luck factor.  I'd say Warren Buffet had the luck factor because of birth place/time, mentors, and family occupation.  I'd also say you don't know if you got the luck factor until you've become an outlier and you are looking back on your life.

[returnonmycapital]

I read the book as well.  10,000 hours, well spent - as mpauls suggests, seems the ticket.  My own results improved enormously since I started spending time with the right teachers.  I have found 4 such teachers:  Warren Buffett (I read and annually re-read all Berkshire Hathaway annual reports), Charlie Munger (Damn Right, Poor Charlie's Almanac and anything else I can find around), Benjamin Graham (I re-read the Intelligent Investor Chapters 1, 8 & 20 annually), and John Templeton (his great niece wrote a good book on his experiences which I have now read twice).  You could say Phil Fisher too, but I get less from him than others do.  As mpauls further suggests, perfect practice - I pick up new things everytime I re-read these perfect volumes.

 

I get OID as well but I'm not sure it helps me much.  I find I have done better by not using other people's ideas (apart from some of the pearls on this board).  The theory, if you want to call it that, from the above mentors is enough to show the way and illuminate ideas that are good and obvious, if you are paying attention.

 

Maybe there are others.  I have read a lot of books by various authors trying to find them but I don't know of any more.  Anyone else?

[JAllen]

I asked some acquaintances about if it was possible to foresee the luck factor components and set one's self up to be an outlier.  They generally thought that you couldn't.

 

I think one can be deserving of great success (by constant learning and very hard work- yes this is vague) much like Munger likes to point out but maybe not to the extent of being the top 1-10 most successful people in the world. 

[ubuy2wron]

I asked some acquaintances about if it was possible to foresee the luck factor components and set one's self up to be an outlier.  They generally thought that you couldn't.

 

I think one can be deserving of great success (by constant learning and very hard work- yes this is vague) much like Munger likes to point out but maybe not to the extent of being the top 1-10 most successful people in the world.   

To reach the level of accomplishment that books are written about you and journalists quote you a large dollop of luck is certainly required. Warren was lucky enough to be turned down by Harvard University and went to Columbia as a result what flowed from that lucky occurance (at the time I am sure Warren was quite disappointed in his Harvard rejection) was a stream of events that made Warren the legend he is to day. 10,000 hours wil pretty much assure success ,luck will get you the penthouse and wisdom will allow you to keep it.

[yudeng2004]

I just recently finished Malcolm Gladwell's recent bestseller, Outliers (the story of success). I enjoyed it very much.

 

At one point he talks about 10,000 hours (time needed to invest to beome really good at anything)... this perhaps helps explain to me what most people fail at managing their own money... 

 

I look at my past and I pass the 10,000 hour test (note, just because you spend 10,000 hours at something doesn't mean you will be good at it). It is more of a necessary but not sufficient thing...

 

Anyone else read the book? Thoughts?

 

I liked this book overall.  But there was one aspect of it I really didn't like - that the author conclusion was too focused on individual success and not on systemic ignorances that need to be fixed. 

The real takeaway from the book is that the system could be improved to provide better equality in opportunity.  But the author focused too much on why individuals were successful, so the audience basically can easily say "I don't have those circumstances, so I won't try".

 

If the focus is on individual success, then he needs to elaborate on WHY DID THOSE PEOPLE SPENT 10,000+ hours?  He kind of brushed aside personality throughout the book, yet this the most important reason why individuals put in those grueling hours.

 

10,000 hours and luck is how you acheive success, but personality + passion is how you put in 10,000 hours and increase your luck.

 

I rather learn more about WHY PEOPLE put in 10,000 hours.  From my own experiences, it generally comes from a desire to win (whatever this means, but that's the internal engine) and passion (psychological feedback loop is such that what most consider to be 'work' they consider to be 'enjoyment').

 

So that's my 2c - that reading this book gives you a sense of systemic imbalances in opportunity, but certainly does not explain why certain individuals are able to do the things that cause success more than others.

 

A good book would focus on both, as that would take away people's excuses to say "I don't have this, so I won't try".

[Guest kawikaho]

Better lucky than smart.  Always.

[bargainman]

If the focus is on individual success, then he needs to elaborate on WHY DID THOSE PEOPLE SPENT 10,000+ hours?  He kind of brushed aside personality throughout the book, yet this the most important reason why individuals put in those grueling hours.

 

10,000 hours and luck is how you acheive success, but personality + passion is how you put in 10,000 hours and increase your luck.

 

I rather learn more about WHY PEOPLE put in 10,000 hours.  From my own experiences, it generally comes from a desire to win (whatever this means, but that's the internal engine) and passion (psychological feedback loop is such that what most consider to be 'work' they consider to be 'enjoyment').

 

So that's my 2c - that reading this book gives you a sense of systemic imbalances in opportunity, but certainly does not explain why certain individuals are able to do the things that cause success more than others.

 

A good book would focus on both, as that would take away people's excuses to say "I don't have this, so I won't try".

 

Yu, I generally agree, and I heard that "Talent is Overrated" and "Talent Code" goes more deeply into that aspect.  I started the former but haven't gotten through it yet...