Guest HarryLong Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 We can agree to disagree. It doesn't mean that either of us is a bad person, farcical, or dumb. We just disagree. I'm happy to leave it at that. I always respect divergent views. That's what makes a market. I always respect my competition enough to never make the amateurish mistake of underestimating them. No matter how sure I am of something, there is always a statistically significant chance that my competition is right, and I am wrong. If our job is to make money and control risk, we help no one by emotionally closing ourselves off to the very real possibility that our competition is correct, and we are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 We can agree to disagree. It doesn't mean that either of us is a bad person, farcical, or dumb. We just disagree. I'm happy to leave it at that. I always respect divergent views. That's what makes a market. Then post your analysis, instead of showing up once every 6 months to take a shot at boardmembers because one idea worked out for you. Don't delete your old posts. Deal with everyone with a touch of humility. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HarryLong Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 If you read the thread, my ideas are very clear. I even numbered them. You just disagree and are using that as a pretext to be disrespectful. That's your prerogative, it's just not how I choose to treat people. It's interesting that when people disagree with you, that you make the mental jump that they must not be humble if they do so. And you simultaneously call them names like "farcical" etc. Pretty ironic. We disagree, and I'm ok with that. No need to call people names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 If you read the thread, my ideas are very clear. I even numbered them. You just disagree and are using that as a pretext to be disrespectful. That's your prerogative, it's just not how I choose to treat people. You treat people with contempt, as if they are your inferior and could never comprehend your genius. You came off that way in your phone calls with me as well, thus I've never entertained another one. I had not responded to any of your recent posts until you took a shot at Dorsia. So yeah, I'm pretty ornery and disrespectful to people who behave that way to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HarryLong Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 If you read the thread, my ideas are very clear. I even numbered them. You just disagree and are using that as a pretext to be disrespectful. That's your prerogative, it's just not how I choose to treat people. You treat people with contempt, as if they are your inferior and could never comprehend your genius. You came off that way in your phone calls with me as well, thus I've never entertained another one. I had not responded to any of your recent posts until you took a shot at Dorsia. So yeah, I'm pretty ornery and disrespectful to people who behave that way to others. If I remember correctly, you had some questions about the birth of high frequency, which I tried to answer. If my answers were in any way upsetting, I publicly apologize to you. I've never publicly or privately called you names, and I have nothing against you. I actually really like you. I just think that the idea of finding companies which suffer from neglect, rather than controversy, has currency. And I think Kaizen will increasingly be applied to investment management. Those are my two points. If you disagree, no problem, I'm ok with that. I'm not going to drag you through the mud because you disagree with me. I appreciate and respect objective, principled disagreement. I'm happy to let the readers judge for themselves when it comes to issues of style. This is a public thread, and people can read for themselves who has engaged in name-calling and personal attacks and who has not. If people want to go short what I'm long, that's ok, that's what makes a market. What really needs to happen for a stock to go up is that it needs to be simultaneously undervalued, and irrationally hated--that's the only way it's really going to be dramatically mispriced. The same is true of ideas. So, I'm at peace with people disagreeing with my ideas, or my stock picks. That's ok. So, I'm going to push for good values, and I'm going to try not to get drawn into bickering. I have some ideas, Parsad disagrees with some of my ideas. That's ok. I'm at peace with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hester Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Before I clicked on the thread and saw all the posts from Harry Long, I figured at least one comment would clarify why he apparently sold MNTG a year ago and then came back bragging as if he owned it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 If you read the thread, my ideas are very clear. I even numbered them. You just disagree and are using that as a pretext to be disrespectful. That's your prerogative, it's just not how I choose to treat people. You treat people with contempt, as if they are your inferior and could never comprehend your genius. You came off that way in your phone calls with me as well, thus I've never entertained another one. I had not responded to any of your recent posts until you took a shot at Dorsia. So yeah, I'm pretty ornery and disrespectful to people who behave that way to others. If I remember correctly, you had some questions about the birth of high frequency, which I tried to answer. If my answers were in any way upsetting, I publicly apologize to you. I've never publicly or privately called you names, and I have nothing against you. I just think that the idea of finding companies which suffer from neglect, rather than controversy, has currency. And I think Kaizen will increasingly be applied to investment management. Those are my two points. If you disagree, no problem, I'm ok with that. I'm not going to drag you through the mud because you disagree with me. I appreciate and respect objective, principled disagreement. Ah no, you actually don't remember do you. In one call, you told me how you thought Sardar was a prick because he stole one of your ideas...I believe Fremont Michigan...you had sent him a white paper on it. The other call, you asked if it was possible to set up an introduction to Prem for you or any other people I may know, because you had a great idea that needed a couple of hundred million. I said that I don't do that for anyone. I've never initiated a single call to you and I would never, ever ask about HFT. I don't believe in it and I think it creates distortions in the markets. I'm not going to respond to anymore of the posts on this thread, because I don't enjoy this. You choose how you want to interact with people. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HarryLong Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Here you go again with the personal attacks. I think the pattern is pretty clear now for everyone to see. For my part, I'm ok with people disagreeing with me. That's what makes a market. Parsad, I like you, I respect you, and I think as time goes on, that you're probably not going to look back with pride at personally attacking people as being one of your finest moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorsia1 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Here you go again with the personal attacks. I think the pattern is pretty clear now for everyone to see. Yes the pattern is pretty clear. But not for Sanjeev. There is a real pathology here... You can dish it out but you can't take it. Stating facts is not a personal attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HarryLong Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 If anyone wants to short MNTG, I'm at peace with it. No one has to agree with me. What started today's firestorm was my sentence "Guess Dorsia was hard on me a little too early." No personal attacks, no name calling. I'm sorry that MNTG's results didn't conform to my detractors' expectations (ok, not that sorry). Call me any names you want. Longer term, name calling and similar coercive behavior (the implicit message is: "agree with me, or I'll act really nasty to you, etc") hurts the people who engage in it. For my part, I'm not going to engage in a trade with you, whereby I agree with your ideas, and in return, you to stop acting nasty or bullying. That's not a trade I need to make. I'm engaging in the marketplace of ideas. If your ideas are great, let them speak for themselves. I've made a lot of great friends on this board, and they've really encouraged me not engage with people who are not willing to engage on the ideas themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorsia1 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 People lash out at you because you never answer any thoughtful questions about your thesis, returns etc., not because you disagree with them. You continually run around the questions and when people call you on it, you act wounded. It's ridiculous. No worries though, you won't hear from me again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HarryLong Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 People lash out at you because you never answer any thoughtful questions about your thesis, returns etc., not because you disagree with them. You continually run around the questions and when people call you on it, you act wounded. It's ridiculous. No worries though, you won't hear from me again. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, and it's important for me to take people at their word. If you have a real question about MNTG as a company or its valuation, please feel free to ask it. I was hoping that you would finally ask a real question about the company itself. I'm all ears.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hester Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, and it's important for me to take people at their word. If you have a real question about MNTG as a company or its valuation, please feel free to ask it. I was hoping that you would finally ask a real question about the company itself. I'm all ears.... Sure. What made you sell the stock and then come back here pointing out the good performance as if you've owned it all along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernYankee Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Will this thread be deleted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HarryLong Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 My overall life philosophy is that we're here on planet earth to help each other, create new knowledge, and forge lasting relationships. In a life well lived, in my view, we help each other, we create and hopefully leave ideas/creations of lasting value, then we die. If we're super lucky, we got around 100 summers on this earth to do all that. That's my overall goal. If I can be a positive part of helping people create new knowledge/ideas/viewpoints in investing or other areas, I'm all for it. And I know that people fight about ideas, because they care, and I honor that. And a good debate can be very healthy, creative, and generative. But if our goal is to create new knowledge together, name calling and bickering doesn't help that. So, I'm going to try to be a good example of the values I want to promote, and if people want to call me names, or be disrespectful, I will not respond in kind, I will just try to keep pushing for the values that are consistent with healthy life goals of helping others, creating new knowledge/ideas, and forging lasting relationships. Those are the things that make me happy, and I think those are the things that bring lasting happiness and growth to others. I hope we can all move forward together in that spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraven Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, and it's important for me to take people at their word. If you have a real question about MNTG as a company or its valuation, please feel free to ask it. I was hoping that you would finally ask a real question about the company itself. I'm all ears.... Sure. What made you sell the stock and then come back here pointing out the good performance as if you've owned it all along? Harry, you said "I was hoping that you would finally ask a real question about the company itself." Hester then said "Sure. What made you sell the stock and then come back here pointing out the good performance as if you've owned it all along?" That seems like a real question about the company itself. And since your life philosophy is that we're here on planet earth to help each other, create new knowledge and forge lasting relationships, could you please answer Hester's simple question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StubbleJumper Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Will this thread be deleted? We can live in hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vish_ram Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I've enjoyed reading harrylong's posts. I've owned EBIX for a long time and found his posts on EBIX refreshing, original. I have read his posts on computer trading with interest and it was above my IQ level (even though I work in IT & written code for years). I do like his new posts. What I like to see (may be more board members also) is, if you had a position that failed, we would like to know the thought process, what you've learnt and how you are correcting it in future. An over emphasis on positions that worked and sweeping under the carpet of others doesn't lend credibility. A good model to emulate is Pabrai, who had more than his fair share of failures, he explained, made corrections and doing just fine. It made Pabrai look more human. On a lighter note, one can make the computer system that came up with recommendations also suggest why the recommendation had failed later on. If the same computer can relearn from its mistakes, then we got an AI that will soon make human investors obsolete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HarryLong Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I've been pretty very open about the Google short not working out. In terms of Dorsia, it was kind of bewildering. He wanted me to start a thread about losers (he thought MNTG was one of them at the time). I totally admitted it had been a bumpy ride, then when the stock rose tremendously, he and Parsad got upset that I pointed it out. So, if it's not working out, start a new thread on it, but if it does well, not allowed to mention it :) That's not very symmetrical. Sheesh ,I shared an idea that ended up doing well. Judged by the thread someone just started that tracks the returns of ideas on the board, I think that's what we're supposed to do--share ideas that end up doing well. I think I've contributed my fair share. I'm happy to hang back and let others have a go at it. I got a lot out of the BAC thread once the personal attacks back and forth stopped, and I learned a lot, so I thank the board members for the debate on those threads. I respect anyone who has the courage to put their ideas out there, this is a tough crowd to please :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HarryLong Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I've enjoyed reading harrylong's posts. I've owned EBIX for a long time and found his posts on EBIX refreshing, original. I have read his posts on computer trading with interest and it was above my IQ level (even though I work in IT & written code for years). I do like his new posts. What I like to see (may be more board members also) is, if you had a position that failed, we would like to know the thought process, what you've learnt and how you are correcting it in future. An over emphasis on positions that worked and sweeping under the carpet of others doesn't lend credibility. A good model to emulate is Pabrai, who had more than his fair share of failures, he explained, made corrections and doing just fine. It made Pabrai look more human. On a lighter note, one can make the computer system that came up with recommendations also suggest why the recommendation had failed later on. If the same computer can relearn from its mistakes, then we got an AI that will soon make human investors obsolete. I appreciate your thoughts, and you bring up a tremendously important point. Once you make a system explicit, you can then see exactly where things went wrong, especially over time, as one has a larger sample size and clear patterns emerge around sources of success and failure modes. At this point, a human needs to be involved in that loop, but I think the industry as a whole will definitely move to a place where the AI can do it in a totally closed loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hester Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 So just to sum up the situation which HarryLong refuses to directly address for obvious reasons: He posted his thesis about MNTG, then sold mere days later, then deleted the thread on it. Then, 10 months later when the stock has a good run for reasons he didn't anticipate, he comes back here bragging about the performance of the pick, and also pokes fun at a fellow board member because they doubted this stock pick. Even though he hadn't owned the stock for 10 months as far as we can tell. I'll let those reading this decide for themselves what this says about HarryLong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HarryLong Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 There's no question about it, when people started making things personal, I erased almost all of my previous threads, as has been well disclosed here. You can still find most of my stuff on seekinglapha.com. Lots of people called me and emailed me asking me to contribute ideas again, but when folks act poorly, people with something substantive to contribute lose interest. Most of the best ideas have moved off-board onto email discussion. I think a suggestion for the board in general would be to end the policy of anonymous posters, and similar to sumzero, have full disclosure about the identity of the participants and firms, if any, they work for. That seems to end a lot of the unproductive flaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 My overall life philosophy is that we're here on planet earth to help each other, create new knowledge, and forge lasting relationships. In a life well lived, in my view, we help each other, we create and hopefully leave ideas/creations of lasting value, then we die. If we're super lucky, we got around 100 summers on this earth to do all that. That's my overall goal. If I can be a positive part of helping people create new knowledge/ideas/viewpoints in investing or other areas, I'm all for it. And I know that people fight about ideas, because they care, and I honor that. And a good debate can be very healthy, creative, and generative. But if our goal is to create new knowledge together, name calling and bickering doesn't help that. So, I'm going to try to be a good example of the values I want to promote, and if people want to call me names, or be disrespectful, I will not respond in kind, I will just try to keep pushing for the values that are consistent with healthy life goals of helping others, creating new knowledge/ideas, and forging lasting relationships. Those are the things that make me happy, and I think those are the things that bring lasting happiness and growth to others. I hope we can all move forward together in that spirit. I'm all for it Harry. That's what I like to hear. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HarryLong Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I appreciate that. How do you feel about the idea of ending anonymous posters, similar to sumzero's format? In addition, they have a great tracking function for ideas, so the performance is very clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I appreciate that. How do you feel about the idea of ending anonymous posters, similar to sumzero's format? In addition, they have a great tracking function for ideas, so the performance is very clear. I would prefer that, but unfortunately there are quite a few professional managers on here that would not be comfortable with that. C'est la vie! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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