Graphene Companies?

[Saluki]

I saw a company with cool tech (and no sales) and I decided to look at some competitors to see if it was worth putting on the watch list.  I don't know if anyone knows about Graphene companies, but there are several ways to make it, from literally peeling it off pencils with Scotch Tape to methods that inolve heat that is the temparature of a star. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem seems to be that no matter how you make it, it's not profitable. I thought scale was the problem, but this is the largest producer, and it's not profitable:

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/NNXPF/

 

All the competitors that are smaller aren't profitable either. They all have pitch decks which talk about TAM, but I'm not convinced. Sure, it can make cement 20% stronger (so you need less of it, which is great for the environment), but if it's too expensive, then it's not going to be used. 

 

The companies using the Chemical Vapor Deposition method, apparently use stuff like Methane and when they burn it off at extremely high temps, you can get the Hydrogen out and you are left with the carbon, which can get you to Graphene, but not a lot.  Most of these methods get you to 10-50% Graphene.  If you could get something that is closer to 100%, using a different hydrocarbon, that sounds great. But the hydrocarbon is more expensive. And I don't see these companies talking about their cost per tonne, just the TAM 

 

So my question isn't about the science, but the sales. Does anyone know about customers who are actually buying this for industrial processes, and how much they are paying for it? Does it matter to them which process their supplier uses to make it (because it has different properties), or are they just interested in price? It looks like military contractors and battery guys like this to experiment with, but is there a widespread commercial product that uses this stuff and who is the customer producing the product? 

 

 

 

[Saluki]

The company I was looking at, which I didn't buy, is up about 10x in a month. The trading curse strikes again  

 

I don't think not buying it was a mistake though. If you go through the list of Nasdaq companies, you will filter out half of them if you just limit yourself to companies that actually make a profit. There are countless companies with cool tech and no sales. If I had bought a few shares in each, the result would be worse than if I passed on All of them. All the other graphene companies are unprofitable, so even with cool tech, the company I was looking at could only do better than those if they actually find commercial users willing to buy their product. 

 

Assuming this company makes it cheaper and purer, there are still not a lot of people outside of universities who are willing to pay for it since it's still in the "what cool things can we do with it" phase. And the CEO seems to be at a conference or podcast every week, but that helps the stock price, not the sales.  

[Saluki]

The pump may have run out of steam. 

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/HGRAF/

 

So I started looking at it (but didn't buy) at 0.16 and it ran up to a high of $2.70 in a month. Now it's $1.37 and people are trying to re-pump it in the message boards. 

 

Still no sales, but the CEO was at an investor conference or podcast at least once or twice a week. It's an interesting industry, but even if they have a better process, they still don't have customers (or a real market), since the people buying from them or their competitors are still figuring out if they can come up commercially viable uses for it. 

 

The initial Tesla was supposed to have carbon fiber panels, because it's lighter and stronger than steel. Elon insisted on it. It never happened, because of the cost. This stuff has to work, be produced at scale, and be cheap enough and better than what people are already using. 

[rogermunibond]

I would look in the specialty chemical sector for existing carbon black producers who have the ability to do R&D on new carbon forms like graphene.

 

It's a pretty niche business but enjoys decent returns on capital for the chemicals/industrial sector.

 

Names like CBT would be one place to look.

[Spekulatius]

How is NNDXF up 10? I see about  33% which is nano cap is not much.

 

[Saluki]

16 minutes ago, Spekulatius said:

How is NNDXF up 10? I see about  33% which is nano cap is not much.

 

 

Hydrograph is the one that went up more than 10x in a month.