Any corp bond experts? Need your help!

[muscleman]

I bought some senior Mongolian Mining corp debt earlier this year and participated in the debt restructuring.

I received some stocks and two of the following bonds.

https://www.boerse-stuttgart.de/en/Energy-Resources-LLC-bond-XS1598634506

https://www.boerse-stuttgart.de/en/Mongolian-Mining-Corp-bond-XS1599078059

 

I am currently trying to sell these two bonds, but Interactive Brokers told me that there are no bids, despite the exchange above showing bid/ask everyday.  :'(

 

Does anyone know what might be going on here?

[TwoCitiesCapital]

I bought some senior Mongolian Mining corp debt earlier this year and participated in the debt restructuring.

I received some stocks and two of the following bonds.

https://www.boerse-stuttgart.de/en/Energy-Resources-LLC-bond-XS1598634506

https://www.boerse-stuttgart.de/en/Mongolian-Mining-Corp-bond-XS1599078059

 

I am currently trying to sell these two bonds, but Interactive Brokers told me that there are no bids, despite the exchange above showing bid/ask everyday.  :'(

 

Does anyone know what might be going on here?

 

Debt tends to be A LOT less liquid than equities - particularly for a mongolian mining company that just went through a restructuring. I can't imagine there are many people out there looking at those specific bonds for purchase. Even looing at those links you provided - they show that the bonds don't trade daily. It might be worth working with interactive brokers' trade desk to get an assistance in execution on these, though there may be an additional fee for that.

[muscleman]

I bought some senior Mongolian Mining corp debt earlier this year and participated in the debt restructuring.

I received some stocks and two of the following bonds.

https://www.boerse-stuttgart.de/en/Energy-Resources-LLC-bond-XS1598634506

https://www.boerse-stuttgart.de/en/Mongolian-Mining-Corp-bond-XS1599078059

 

I am currently trying to sell these two bonds, but Interactive Brokers told me that there are no bids, despite the exchange above showing bid/ask everyday.  :'(

 

Does anyone know what might be going on here?

 

Debt tends to be A LOT less liquid than equities - particularly for a mongolian mining company that just went through a restructuring. I can't imagine there are many people out there looking at those specific bonds for purchase. Even looing at those links you provided - they show that the bonds don't trade daily. It might be worth working with interactive brokers' trade desk to get an assistance in execution on these, though there may be an additional fee for that.

 

 

Are you saying the bid and ask shown on the Stuttgart exchange are fake? For illiquid stocks, even if they don't trade for many days, as long as there are bid and asks, when I need to sell, I can always hit the bid to get my order filled. Apparently IB is having strange problems as these two bonds don't even show up in TWS

[Hielko]

Those bids and asks might just be indicative. Those bonds are probably not traded using an electronic order book like most stocks.

[HJ]

Did you buy the original bonds on the exchange through Interactive Broker?  It's actually interesting that they are listed at all.  For most corporate bonds, exchange listing, especially on a minor exchange, tends to be a bespoke requirement from a large investor for some regulatory reasons.  Real transactions typically don't happen on the exchange at all.  But then again you bought the original bond.  Maybe call Stuttgart exchange directly and ask about where they got their indicative bid/ask from?   

[valcont]

I used to work for an investment bank. Even though we had an electronic bond trading set up, most of the trading was done the old fashioned way via telephone. You are better off calling the IB trading desk and have them execute the order. You will get a much better price. No point in calling the exchange, they only deal with the brokers.

[thelads]

Hi Muscleman,

 

I see no quotes on Bloomberg for either of these, though the first seems to have full price history indicating it has been trading around. I am probably just not on the appropriate runs. I think the prior suggestion to call the trading desk is the right move. There are some smaller broker dealers who can specialize in more off the run stuff like this. Maybe GMP securities for example. Ashmore, Goldman Sachs and Rochdale are all listed as owners of both of the securities, so you could contact them perhaps, or ask the trading desk to, in order to find a bid. On the first security, Value Partners group also has a reasonable position. So they are another point of contact.

 

If all of that fails, PM me and I will ask a colleague who still looks closely in this area to see if he has runs on both. I imagine he would have them.

 

Best of luck

[muscleman]

Hi Muscleman,

 

I see no quotes on Bloomberg for either of these, though the first seems to have full price history indicating it has been trading around. I am probably just not on the appropriate runs. I think the prior suggestion to call the trading desk is the right move. There are some smaller broker dealers who can specialize in more off the run stuff like this. Maybe GMP securities for example. Ashmore, Goldman Sachs and Rochdale are all listed as owners of both of the securities, so you could contact them perhaps, or ask the trading desk to, in order to find a bid. On the first security, Value Partners group also has a reasonable position. So they are another point of contact.

 

If all of that fails, PM me and I will ask a colleague who still looks closely in this area to see if he has runs on both. I imagine he would have them.

 

Best of luck

 

 

Thank you! I opened a trading ticket in IB to request them to ask Ashmore, Goldman Sachs and Rochdale. I am sure one of these guys will have the ability to trade bonds in Stuttgart exchange. I think IB has just been lazy with me.