Banana republic

[rb]

rb

There are thousands of Canadian Snowbirds who travel to Florida and Arizona during the Cdn winter. As more of this stupid, terrorist stuff keeps happening to innocent folks, more Snowbirds will be reluctant to go there. Just wait to see what happens to the Florida and Arizona economies who depend upon these thousands going there every year. What goes around, comes around.

Oh, I know and it's already starting to happen. Lately there has been quite a bit of airline capacity added between Canada and Spain, especially Barcelona and Malaga. You can be sure that there will be a chunk that won't appreciate the new treatment and the toughen up message and just go elsewhere. To get a feeling of Canadian sentiment: Toronto right now has a red hot real estate market where everything sells for insane amounts after bidding wars. But you can't sell Trump branded real estate.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/trump-tower-toronto-no-bids-1.4011755

 

But it's not just Canadians it's people from other places as well. US travel exports are significant.

 

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ITXTAEM133S#0

[rb]

In fairness I did say I stopped there!

 

FWIW, I was denied entrance on a business trip into Toronto years ago because I forgot my license. White, suit and tie, nothing in my appearance that suggest scoundrel. Shit happens; know the rules.

So you were denied access into the country because you had no identification at all. Yea I can see how your story is the same as all the other ones here. ::)

 

But since Toronto doesn't have a land border, you were able to get through security at an airport and board a place without ID?

[Hawks]

ScottHall

"boring"?? this is real life. this is happening in your country. if you want to post something substantial, I'm all ears. And I will either agree or disagree with you. But "boring"?  Surely you can do better than that.

[Desert_Rat]

In fairness I did say I stopped there!

 

FWIW, I was denied entrance on a business trip into Toronto years ago because I forgot my license. White, suit and tie, nothing in my appearance that suggest scoundrel. Shit happens; know the rules.

So you were denied access into the country because you had no identification at all. Yea I can see how your story is the same as all the other ones here. ::)

 

But since Toronto doesn't have a land border, you were able to get through security at an airport and board a place without ID?

 

Something me and the list of 6 rejected "nations" had/have in common: No verifiable identification (which also answers a certain SA reference upthread)

[Desert_Rat]

ScottHall

"boring"?? this is real life. this is happening in your country. if you want to post something substantial, I'm all ears. And I will either agree or disagree with you. But "boring"?  Surely you can do better than that.

 

it comes down to this:

 

Trump and his administration dictate the restrictions. Those restrictions are clearly defined except that an NSA agent may use their judgement to detain (or pass) a visitor. But that's Trump's input, that's it. He isn't calling agents and demanding they deny legitimate visitors.

 

Is it possible one or two or a few agents are overstepping? sure, but I'm as concerned about that as I am cops assassinating innocent, college bound, black dudes because they get a kick out of it. There are psychos everywhere but 98% of our officers do their jobs to the best of their abilities. They follow law as defined and use their best judgement when warranted.

 

 

[Hawks]

Desert-Rat

Have no idea what that last post means or was trying to say. Came thru rather garbled.

[Hawks]

RE "98% of our officers do the best job they can", did they do that under Obama too? if so, what is your problem with immigrants?  or are these all new officers appointed by your new Administration?

[Desert_Rat]

I have no problem with immigrants. But apparently the majority of our voting public does; they want it curtailed. Trump is simply following a campaign promise, and, really, with how EUR is doing with their imports, I think I should have a problem with immigrants of a certain type too.

 

[ScottHall]

ScottHall

"boring"?? this is real life. this is happening in your country. if you want to post something substantial, I'm all ears. And I will either agree or disagree with you. But "boring"?  Surely you can do better than that.

 

you guys are wasting each other's time in a screaming match and nobody is going to change anybody's mind

 

this is boring

[rb]

RE "98% of our officers do the best job they can", did they do that under Obama too? if so, what is your problem with immigrants?  or are these all new officers appointed by your new Administration?

Interesting that his stats imply that there are some 1200 psychos in TSA and CBP. Not to mention the ones that think they're doing the best job  they can but are wrong. One wonders though why one doesn't hear about these type of stories coming out of let's say.... Germany or.... Japan. Cause God knows when someone think German of Japanese border guards they don't picture warm and cuddly.

 

I just wish I possessed Rat's thought process. Life would be so much easier.

[rb]

ScottHall

"boring"?? this is real life. this is happening in your country. if you want to post something substantial, I'm all ears. And I will either agree or disagree with you. But "boring"?  Surely you can do better than that.

 

you guys are wasting each other's time in a screaming match and nobody is going to change anybody's mind

 

this is boring

So go read a book, watch a movie, do whatever entertains you.

[SharperDingaan]

It's a tough job being a border patrol officer, and not the best paid either.

Many might also argue that while most officers may be well meaning, they probably aren't the top 20% of the barrel.

 

So .... what do suppose might happen should enterprising reporters put streaming cameras and microphones on suitable subjects - & send them through the border?

 

Most would expect 'incidents' especially upon discovery of the streaming tech.

But it'll be too late; because all the nice clear insignia, faces and voices are already on the feeds - the feeds were automatically re-broadcast off the NA continent as they were received, then turned into viral releases from multiple sites, to drive a feeding frenzy. It is of course a bait and sting, but it would generate millions of hits, & there is nothing the patrol officer can really do about it. The only defense is to not fall for it - which maybe ONLY the top 20% of the barrel could do.

 

The commercial incentives are very high, & it would get shut down very quickly - but not until after the first viral images have begun hitting the net; & too late. Charming.

 

Food for thought?

 

SD

 

 

[Desert_Rat]

RE "98% of our officers do the best job they can", did they do that under Obama too? if so, what is your problem with immigrants?  or are these all new officers appointed by your new Administration?

Interesting that his stats imply that there are some 1200 psychos in TSA and CBP. Not to mention the ones that think they're doing the best job  they can but are wrong. One wonders though why one doesn't hear about these type of stories coming out of let's say.... Germany or.... Japan. Cause God knows when someone think German of Japanese border guards they don't picture warm and cuddly.

 

I just wish I possessed Rat's thought process. Life would be so much easier.

 

Couldn't you find two better examples?

 

Merkel is DOA and Japan is dying because of xenophobia. Do better!

[ScottHall]

RE "98% of our officers do the best job they can", did they do that under Obama too? if so, what is your problem with immigrants?  or are these all new officers appointed by your new Administration?

Interesting that his stats imply that there are some 1200 psychos in TSA and CBP. Not to mention the ones that think they're doing the best job  they can but are wrong. One wonders though why one doesn't hear about these type of stories coming out of let's say.... Germany or.... Japan. Cause God knows when someone think German of Japanese border guards they don't picture warm and cuddly.

 

I just wish I possessed Rat's thought process. Life would be so much easier.

 

Couldn't you find two better examples?

 

Merkel is DOA and Japan is dying because of xenophobia. Do better!

 

 

isnt it great when we use untestable variables as the basis of our policy making ideas

 

economics is science

 

desert rat for fed chair

[Cardboard]

Hawks calls me biased... LOL. You have never heard of people turned away at the U.S. border before Trump for dubious reasons??? One agent even questioned me about details of a work visa that I had 17 years earlier on a family trip!!!

 

Did you ever travel to the U.S. or Europe?

 

The biggest joke is the EU customs. First time I travelled there years ago there is that line for EU Nationals which is a revolving door then there is that Non-EU line where they make you wait a little longer but, I only recall one agent in my dozen of trips ever asking me the purpose of my trip. I always wondered if it was a language barrier thing.

 

"Cause God knows when someone think German of Japanese border guards they don't picture warm and cuddly."

 

So I will take the German custom agent all day long before U.S. custom agent. I don't like questioning from the latter but, at least they do their job. Some are definitely better than others like in all sphere of society but, it is always an experience that you are happy to be done with.

 

Cardboard

[Hawks]

Cardboard

To answer your question, yes I have travelled to the U.S. many, many times. Golf trips, vacation, business and to see friends.

And yes, I have travelled to Europe. In fact my first full time work after college was at a Canadian private school in Switzerland. I have visited and camped and hitchhiked all over Europe. You name it, I've probably been there. While I'm at it, I've travelled and worked as a consultant in Ethiopia, been to Morocco, vacationed in Australia and New Zealand, took a 5 week tour of China, visited Mexico and Peru and oh yeah, even England, Scotland and Wales. So I have seen and been thru many checkpoints (even Checkpoint Charlie when Berlin was separated in two). Never had a problem in any of the above places. But some of these stories that are now emerging dealing with legitimate citizens, with valid passports and paperwork, from countries that are your allies, are appalling. Sorry you cannot see your society is changing rapidly and maybe not for the good. The rest of the world is watching and is worried.

[Cardboard]

"Cardboard

Your obvious bias is coming thru time and time again. I'm trying to post real stories from real people who have never experienced such rejections, humiliation, etc in their lives. And they have travelled to and from the U.S. many times. The Australian childrens author visited your country 116 times under Republican and Democratic Presidents, but has never seen anything like this. And you think all Presidents act like Trump. The world disagrees with you."

 

"Sorry you cannot see your society is changing rapidly and maybe not for the good. The rest of the world is watching and is worried."

 

It is obvious who is biased, trying to discredit me and it is obvious that you are either ignoring or relying purely on facts from the media. I find that very curious for someone who claims to have been travelling a lot as stories like these are not new at all. What is new once again is that they never have been reported by the media.

 

Now if you have facts, data, statistics, indicating that there has been more detention, rejections the day after Trump took over then we may have a discussion. Other than that, I realize that you have not realized one crucial thing with the media or that they report endlessly about one specific topic after one tragedy or incident has occured. It often lasts 3 to 6 months then after that, you never hear about it again.

 

Cardboard

 

 

[onyx1]

But in today's world, more and more people get their so called "news" via social media. The lack of facts and evidence and research via social media is appalling.

 

And then, you promote a social media story based on third-hand speculation that has yet to be confirmed/verified by a single person:

 

And now, just a few hours ago, Khizr Khan the father of the son who was fighting and died while in the U.S. army has been denied travel to Canada and govt is reviewing "travel restrictions" for him. He has been an American citizen for 30 years and has never experienced problems like this before. You know what is speaking engagement in Toronto was about?  tolerance, understanding and rule of law". What is becoming of American society?  The land of the "free"??  How many more freedoms are going to be denied and limited and to whom?

 

Now who is the one with obvious bias?

[Desert_Rat]

By a Dem puppet, no less.

 

++

[valcont]

The problem is that the people are so fed up with run of the mill politicians that a nut job seems like a breath of fresh air. Take immigration for instance,

its a privilege NOT a right and this Canadian woman is crying wolf because she can't get across the border for her spa treatment. Big deal!! Maybe this agent is biased but why care about someone who is lowly paid and on a power trip because of his/her position. Ignore him just as you would if a bum on the street starts yelling at you. If it were institutional racism codified by the new admin , we would have heard a lot more stories than these random one off incidents.

 

What you should be worried is that the orange man is seeing things that simply don't exist. He thinks Obama wire tapped him, has "leakers" in the administration trying to bring him down, released vicious prisoners from Guantanamo. That calls for a psychiatric evaluation.

 

BTW that Khizr Khan story seems like a lot of bull too. That dude has gone radio silent since making his claims. 

[wachtwoord]

What you should be worried is that the orange man is seeing things that simply don't exist. He thinks Obama wire tapped him, has "leakers" in the administration trying to bring him down, released vicious prisoners from Guantanamo. That calls for a psychiatric evaluation.

 

Of course Trump was wire-tapped (so is Obama btw). How are you even questioning this? Also believe in flat-Earth theory perhaps?

[valcont]

What you should be worried is that the orange man is seeing things that simply don't exist. He thinks Obama wire tapped him, has "leakers" in the administration trying to bring him down, released vicious prisoners from Guantanamo. That calls for a psychiatric evaluation.

 

Of course Trump was wire-tapped (so is Obama btw). How are you even questioning this? Also believe in flat-Earth theory perhaps?

 

There you go. A typical Trumpanzee. I wrote "Obama wire tapped him" and he reads "Trump was wiretapped"

[RichardGibbons]

you guys are wasting each other's time in a screaming match and nobody is going to change anybody's mind

 

You're kind of missing the point.  There are four main reasons to talk about this:

 

1. It's amusing--bitching about politics is fun.  Pointing out Rat's doublethink is also fun.  I actually sincerely think it's cool seeing such a direct example of doublethink.

 

2. I believe it is possible to change people's minds, just not the people talking.  When you point out the gaping holes in Rat and Cardboard's arguments, they look foolish.  That won't persuade Rat and Cardboard since their arguments are based on ideology rather than reasoning. But it has the potential to impact the attitudes of people who are reading the thread, but not posting.

 

They might look at this and say, "The Trump supporters really aren't making much sense, and it takes very little effort to make their arguments look extremely foolish.  I probably shouldn't model my beliefs after theirs".

 

3. I have changed my beliefs based on these discussions. Not radically, but in evolutionary ways, and I think that's good.

 

4. It's interesting hearing the best arguments of the right, because I was arguing with a literal Communist the other day, and it's useful understanding the good arguments of the right so I can adopt them.  This thread hasn't had many of them ("Obama did it so it's OK if Trump does it too" is a terrible argument anywhere outside of a Fox News studio), but some threads do.

 

That said, feel free to be bored with us.  I don't think it bothers us if you feel that way, so go ahead.

[Cardboard]

They probably look at your arguments too and realize that you are a leftist demagogue.

 

Cardboard

[valcont]

 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-07/trump-sends-pharma-stocks-down-with-new-tweet-on-drug-prices

 

And then he does that and I wonder why didn't I vote for this guy? Maybe I need an evaluation.