cwericb

"And as always those who defended the Sino Forest criminals and personally attacked (verbally obviously) Carson Block, and were dead wrong on the fate of the company, were just a few honest guys seeking the truth, no harm no foul right? " Wow that's pretty strong language and a bit premature for something that has yet to be proven. Would you like to name names - just questioning your tolerance for a potential libel suit when you paint the company with such a broad brush? TRE just made their latest interest payment the other day. Does that not strike you curious for a company that is in your friend Block's words, a "complete Ponzi scheme"?

Last month I posted this link under Investment Ideas and had no reaction. http://seekingalpha.com/article/296152-the-brick-offers-a-unique-deep-value-opportunity Two weeks ago The Brick held a managers meeting in Toronto and I am told they are some major positive changes coming soon to the way they operate.

With apologies to those trying to have a serious conversation, I just have one more comment to make. When the world has some really serious debt problems and you think of the concept of building a fence along portions of a five thousand five hundred mile border, it makes you wonder what these guys are smoking. Wikipedia says that 1,000 miles of that border is along the BC border where the Rockies might make pretty rough going. And unlike the Mexican border we get something called snow, especially along that 1,500 mile portion with Alaska which would make about 90% that fence rather difficult to even find during the winter. But you have to hand it to them 'cause everyone knows that no Canadian terrorist could ever think of a way of gettin over a fence so it's probably money well spent.

“Let's all head for the Canada Border...” Too late guys, this mornings Canadian Press headlines... “The United States is looking at building fences along the border with Canada to help keep out terrorists and other criminals. “ The real reason is that they want to spend all that money is to keep you guys in...

This dosen't sound good. Fibrek Inc. (FBK) : The pulp maker extended the scheduled shutdown of a mill in Fairmont, West Virginia, citing high waste-paper prices, according to a press release distributed by CNW Group Ltd.

“Independent BOD's won't do it, the auditors won't do it, regulators won't do it.” How true and how sad. Personally I agree that shorting can serve a legitimate function. If you can go long you should be able to go short. Both are assumptions of where the stock price will go in future. Longs provide capital, whereas shorts can uncover wrongdoing. The problem comes in when you have a short attack on a legitimate company and artificial measures are taken to drive a stock down. Am I correct that naked shorting is legal in Canada and not in the US?

Okay, I'll agree to that, any chance of us getting elected to the board of directors? :) On the other hand, if I dump this I can pretty well guarantee that NBSK will jump, the US plants will be sold at a huge profit, the power generation plant will come on early, and a special dividend will be declared.

Given that the Sino board is mostly composed of (Canadian) senior accountants they should be held to account and contrary to what has been previously posted here, this is a Canadian company operating in China and certain senior officers of the company, including the vice chairman and the CFO are Canadian and I believe are Canadian residents, so the question of extradition should become moot in their case if they have violated any laws. I think the real question here still remains, is the company rotten to the core or do we have a few bad apples? However, it probably no longer matters as Sino is thoroughly corrupt in the eyes of many. We may have a better idea tomorrow after the OSC hearing but they may simply postpone everything until the PWC report is released. But on the other hand, they could announce that they are laying charges based on the results of their own investigation. Question: If such a thing as trading in TRE was halted permanently and the company de-listed, what happens to the shorts and naked shorts? An also what happens to someone like Chandler who now owns nearly 20% of the company - assuming the company has any value left?

Tyska, you’re probably being optimistic. Guess it depends on the definitions of fraud and theft, versus bonuses and severance packages. But $83 million split 3 ways over 5 years averages out to about 5.5 million each which seems pretty small potatoes compared to what some execs have paid themselves over 5 years in bonuses and severance packages - but of course that’s not fraud because they said “we’re taking it and there ain’t nothing you can do about it” ;)

Does anyone see this going anywhere in the near future? Trading volume has dwindled to a trickle, NBSK price is slipping and I'm thinking of joining Uccmal and dumping a good portion of this because it just seems that there are a lot of better values out there. I think that there is potential here but it is beginning to look like that is a long way off.

Just to clarify a couple of points. At no time did I ever defend TRE or advise anyone to buy it unless they wanted to take a ‘flyer’. Some years ago I invested in another company that was down and out (Gentra) and that investment has paid off far beyond any expectations so salvages/turnarounds are not unheard of. From day one I agreed that it was quite likely that fraud would be discovered. The question was, to what degree? I invested no more money in TRE than I was willing to lose so the downside was simply the amount invested, but the upside could have been considerably more. All investments involve risk and I felt the risk/reward was worth the gamble. I was well prepared for a drop in share price if and when fraud was discovered, but felt that the share price would more than come back over time. I assumed that some of these smart, experienced guys with deep pockets like Chandler in particular, would be in a position to step in and clean up this company and I am not sure that is out of the question. However, I never contemplated the possibility that the company could be de-listed or suspended indefinitely. To be honest, that possibility never crossed my mind and, while it has not happened at this point, it is certainly something I will keep in mind in future. (I assume this is a possibility?) S2s, my problems with block’s credibility had nothing to do with what parties he went to in college. It was the fact that some of his background was questionable and he was far from an unbiased source. He had a vested interest in trying to force the price of the stock down. As far as comparing Block’s actions to Davis, Chandler, Wellington, etc, my thoughts were that they had, or should have had, access to a lot more information about TRE than would one individual with a comparatively limited budget. There are two sides to every situation. I was taking the contrarian view. That is one of the things that I respect and value about this board is that it is an avenue to see both sides of any investment, especially a controversial one. It will be interesting to watch where this goes from here.

Just caught up to this a minute ago - away for the weekend. Well, you win some, you lose some. As I said at the first this as a gamble. I don't have time to get into this right now but given2invest... " I just thought the arrogance was absurd." If for one minute you believe that you obviously misread something. From day one I was surprised that some would give more credibility to Carson Block than to some other major investors like Wellington, Davis, Richard Chandler et al., especially when Block freely admitted shorting the stock. It will be very interseting watching where this goes from here. For instance, I don't think I would want to be in Ernst & Young shoes.

Looks like these guys are grasping at straws. They are probably the kind of lawyers that give the profession a bad name. Re the trial, I have been trying to follow it from the start but it is not easy to find coverage. I had a bookmark for one of the law firms where you could get some info but that was a couple of years ago. Does anyone know if they have had a discovery hearing or whatever it is called in the States?

As per Nnejad's bold text "...(iii) the Company had shifted its focus, and a significant amount of resources, away from its core higher education readiness and Penn Foster core businesses in pursuit of unproven projects to the detriment of its business, financial performance and prospects." I know this is in English, but why can't I read it? What in hell does this mean "...its core higher education readiness..." ??? Did Prem flunk out of university that year?

Suppose you were following a thread where a poster was on Ignore. So now you are only getting a portion of the conversation. Therefore you may make redundant or out of context posts. Perhaps that might cause someone to put you on Ignore because of your posts. I think the feature might be counterproductive to discussions as a whole and if someone is truly making a nuisance of themselves, our moderator has the power to caution them, delete posts and threads, or ban them from the board. All of which have been done at one time or another. I might not agree with some here on some subjects, but that does not mean that we might not concur on others. As Munger says... “After all, the value of an investment board is in part related to the diversity of opinion no matter how foolish at times.” I have too much respect for members of this board to put anyone on Ignore.

The above might be politically incorrect, but still the best laugh of the day!

Wouldn't you like to sit down and pick his brains for an hour or so?

That's better! And I like the "Go Up" Thanks guys! May take a while to get used to it, but when I think back to the old MSN site and how you would have to wait and wait at times for a page to load, this is a great improvement - Generation 3! Out of curiosity, when was the original site started?

As they say, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

I have been thinking about adding too, but what would be the effects of a disastrous hurricane season?

I agree with gurjot. Well thought out and presented comments by moore_capital54.

Who makes Tums and Rolaids? Its starting to look like potential for a lot of growth there. I have a some at home, in the car, at work, in my gym bag... If this market keeps going like this I think I'll open an anti-acid stand on Wall Street and sell shares.

Coincidently the Sears 2011 "Christmas Wish Book" just landed on my doorstep about two hours ago - all 875 pages of it.

Oops, I didn't mean to suggest that Sanjeev was siding with those who have been supporting Block's defenders. On the contrary if anything, he has made it pretty clear that he views that report as probably being rather biased. As with my posting about the Q2 results he has only posted reasonably reliable or interesting information on the subject. I can see how my remark may have been misinterpreted. I added that quote to show that he, like you and myself were all adding to the “disgusting” comments on this thread. I will edit that to make it clearer.

Some here seem to have a very selective memory, tend to twist the odd fact and like to quote out of context - as per the above. But when someone asks them questions about their own position they conveniently refuse to respond. I have stated my position on Carson Block and TRE ad nauseam. Unfortunately some either chose to ignore or fail to comprehend the point I was trying to make. I was simply surprised to find that a few on the board were so quick to label TRE a total fraud based almost solely on the Muddy Waters report by Carson Block when there was good reason to doubt the report’s sincerity and accuracy as well as Mr. Block’s credentials. Because of that, some have tried to suggest that I was either trying to defend or promote TRE and now you criticize me for posting that Sino announced their 2Q results and an update on the PWC report. This type of response is as mystifying as is the fact that a certain few relentlessly criticize anything that is not in line with the Muddy Waters report. I find this very strange. I also find it coincidental that at least one of these members joined the board at the time of this discussion and immediately promoted Block's views at length. But when those members say that this thread is not worthy of this board and not worth following, why do they almost immediately post objections to anything that does not fall in line with Carson Block’s report? I don’t know what their agenda is, but I really don’t think that our Board needs you as censors for what is acceptable for board members to read and what is not. Our moderator is perfectly capable of doing that. However, since he too has also initiated comment on TRE than, like myself and some others, we are all contributing to the fact that ..... “It's disgusting to see something that has fraud written all over it being touted over and over again on our board after good advice that the thread should be dropped.” Personally I try to keep an open mind and learn from people on this board. My posting on this thread is usually only to show that there is another side to this controversy other than Block's which seems to be so well promoted here. You guys seem to be long on innuendo and short on facts and then suggest that I am the one with the closed mind. Whether TRE is a fraud or not remains to be seen, I suspect there is some truth to the accusations but not enough to call the company a complete fraud, Ponzi scheme, and thereby worthless. If the company should fail, it will more likely be caused by the accusations rather than by the facts revealed by the report. As for Don Quixote is concerned, the only vision problems are of the tunnel variety that comes from believing too much of what some self promoting shyster says.