Baklava

As you are stressing the education topic I will make a comparison that would not be flawed in terms of integrating into German society. If you would compare the integration process of Turks vs. Russians, that arrived in 1990s, I will be the first to admit that the Russians are leapfrogging the Turks. But as with everything there are reasons for it. The Russian immigrants consist of two major groups: Russians with German roots and Jewish people. The language advantage and cultural proximity that Germans with Russian roots (as we call them "Russlanddeutsche") naturally let them already in the 2nd generation to surpass Turks of the 3rd generations. The Russian Jews also have achieved outstanding results. Here the reasons are multifold. Usually their parents already went through higher education in the soviet union and they are as you know putting a lot of value on education. Their parents might have worked as cab drivers or museum security guards (due to very hard acknowledgement process of Soviet degrees) but their children easily leapfrogged 3rd generation Turks. But in order to understand why the integration process of Turks was slower than with the Russians, you would also have to consider what Spekulatius mentioned above.

Well, I was referring to Germany with people who moved from Turkey with Jewish and Greek roots. The majority of both ethnic groups moved out in the time periods I mentioned. See screenshots. Your comparison is flawed. You simply cannot compare the integration process of ethnic groups in the US with the integration process here in Germany due to multiple reasons. Your system is different, distance to countries where people migrated from and people's intentions to return to their country of origin. The right comparison would be to compare the integration of Turks in Germany with other ethnicities in Germany. And to be honest I don't see Turk's in Germany being less integrated than their peers from Italy, Spain or Yugoslavia that migrated around the same timeframe 1960/70s. As Spekulatius pointed the younger generations attend universities and provide their fair share to society. I don't believe that the share of those within the Turkish community is less than with their peers descending from the same cohort that migrated in the 1960/70s. (edit) So, you wouldn't count the Turks as successors of the Ottomans? Just referring to your statement about civilizations.

@Dalal.Holdings On your point about Biontech being the only great achievement for people with a Turkish background in Germany. In terms of market capitalization I give you right. But if you put this into perspective with your previous comments regarding the almost non-existance of successful European companies being founded in the recent history, I would say the Biontech case is a home-run

Your first sentence is already not correct. I am not aware of any people with Turkish roots either being Greek or Jewish that migrated directly into Germany from Turkey in the 1960/70s. As far as I know both groups already migrated to Greece or Israel some time in the 1920s/1930s. On crime statistics the background of people are not disclosed as far as I know. %-wise It might be slightly higher compared to the ethnic German population. On b)-c) I would say the Turkish population is still catching up but it is improving from to year to year. But you have to take here into consideration that not Turkey's intelligentzia migrated to Germany in the 1960/70s. Those were people from Turkey's poorest regions. e) I would say these mostly go back to people with Arab roots.

@Dalal.Holdings What makes you think that Germany's nearly 3m people with Turkish roots have not integrated well? Have you ever lived here? Actually, the most recent immigration (see Spekulatius' bar chart) from Turkey are the best educated Turkish immigrants we've ever had. They are mostly fleeing Erdoğan.

Larry Goldberg seems to have a good grasp of the situation with the AfD. LOL. I don’t know a single jewish person in Germany who would vote for the AfD. On the contrary, every jewish person I know thinks of the AfD as a fascist party.

Frommi summed it up pretty well from a 10k feet view. @Dalal.Holdings I am with you with your first two points but removing regulatory barriers and cheap energy are not going to make German car makers sell more cars in China. If I am not mistaken 40% of cars sold in China are EVs by now. Our German car makers suck at that game. Controlling Immigration is kind of a hoax topic from the AfD. This is not happening at the volumes it used to. The last wave of immigrants entering Germany was with the start of the Ukraine war and before that it was the wave of 1m Syrians being welcomed by Mrs. Merkel. It is far more important to integrate those migrants we already have here into the job market. I don't know whether you are aware of Germany's demographics but it is getting closer to Japanese levels. Not every one of those migrants needs to have a university degree, we also need people doing low level jobs. Unfortunately, we are not doing a superb job at it. Our social welfare system keeps too many people from having an incentive to work. Furthermore, even accepting degrees and professions from other countries is kind of a nightmare. While doing so well are excluding a pool of labour out of the job market.

A little correction from my side on the stats the author of the article is providing. "One-fifth of the population was not born in Germany." This is absolute non-sense. One fifth of the population have a migration background and the vast majority of them were actually born in Germany and are productive in the workforce. To be counted as someone with a migration background one's parents have to be born abroad. Attached a oie chart showing the distribution of the 20%. The author of the article either didn't check facts or was trying to paint a picture which is simply not reality. Apart from 1m Syrians and approx. 1m Ukrainians, that recently arrived, the vast majority were born in Germany.

No, I wouldn't call these far-right policies. The majority of your points are simply conservative policies which should be covered by the Christian Democrats (CDU) and also were before Angela Merkel sleepwalked us out of nuclear energy and welcomed 1m Syrian refugees into the country.

The difference with the US is that you only have two parties and of course the whole spectrum of either side will be reflected in both parties. But in Germany we have multiple parties. Two on the conservative end (CDU and AfD), One in the middle (FDP) and three more socially/leftist oriented (SPD, Grüne, Linke and BSW). Basically, every party has its audience it is catering to. And with the AfD it is no secret that a good chunk of their voters are simply right wing voters that used to vote for parties such as NPD, which simply vanished from the landscape.

It is not just the lower ranks where racism persists in this party. Who of the moderates in the AfD are left? Alice seems to be the only one and makes a great poster child for them. The majority of the policies in their electoral programme is also what the Christian Democrats used to stand for. Just the fact that this party's stronghold lying in the East of Germany and having taken the place of former right wing parties, which have all miraculously disappeared, is already a strong indication where this party's roots lie. Everyone with a 2nd or 3rd generation migration background in Germany understands this.

Are you just quoting Elon Musk while referring to all the positives on Alice Weidel? He said the exact same things about her. Alice Weidel is just a poster child of the AfD. If you want to learn more about the AfD, start researching more about Björn Höcke, die Junge Alternative etc.

@Dalal.Holdings Do you actually believe the AfD is not a far right party?

Paolo Maldini

The psychopath's name is Yahya Sinwar