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It seems to me that to invest in cheap cash flow generators like savings stamp co''s one needs either a good capital allocator at the helm or a controlling interest so that you can make the capital allocation decision to turn it into a decent investment.

If a settlement offer was coming re the FFH lawsuit would it not make sense that the parties offering settlement buy shares in FFH as a meaningful settlement would have a positive influence on the price. Just a thought.

Partner, If it is easy as you suggest to identify beforehand which of the Phoenix type of investments that Prem has made will work out perhaps you could identify today amongst the various fallen angels that FFH has exposure to will work out and why.

Dealraker, I do not for an instant question your experience or credentials. However to state that Wells is 100 billion undercapitalized after the largest capital raise in its history based on the flimsy evidence of one anecdote should not go unchallenged. I suspect that few banks could meet all of their obligations if forced to liquidate in a very short period of time it is one of the reasons why the FED uses liquidation as a last resort for banks. I do not believe that Wells will be required to liquidate hence hitting the bid next week in the residential real estate sector is not a realistic expectation. I have heard much anectdotable information that Wells has in fact been the farthest ahead of the curve on loan mods regarding reisdential re.

After reading about captured journalists and hedge funds I am highly supicious Sanj how many free burgers did you offer him.... shame shame ....LOL again

I think Sanj has a journalist who is a Corner of Bershire reader . LOL

I think if there is prosecutorial will ,Stevie will eventually serve time. I certainly hope they do not do a Milliken and allow him to keep a large part of his ill gotten gains and serve a nominal sentence .

Sorry for the previous post ,screwd up. Vinay you mentioned no bubble traded above 50% of peak valuations for a generation and then mentioned the nasdaq bubble and Japan. I am interested in this thesis what is your source for this observation. The clearest bubbles in the last generation were IMO residential real estate recently the Nasdaq in the last decade. Japanese stocks in the eighties and precious metals in the late 70''s. Currently I suspect that US treasuries are in bubble territory.

"The price effects of inflation can occur in goods, which most people recognize as relating to inflation, or in investment assets, which people do not generally recognize as relating to inflation. The inflation of the 1970s induced dramatic prices rises in gold, silver and commodities. The inflation of the 1980s and 1990s induced dramatic price rises in stock certificates and real estate." - Prechter This past decade has seen a large trading range for stocks & real estate, but as of now, stocks are 35% lower than the beginning of this decade, and the real estate bubble has burst. If we agree that US real estate was a 'bubble', -- no bubble has surpassed 50% of its peak value within a generation (Nasdaq bubble & Japanese stock bubble are still following this trend). You are correct that 'commodity' and goods have not seen deflation over this decade, but we got our first deflationary panic this past year. We'll see how this plays out in the coming years. cheers, Vinay

It likely got pulled or added to an index the volume today is probably a result of that.

MR. Mkt in his infinte wisdom has decided that at least in Canadian dollar terms FFH is worth about the same as it was 12 months ago. If one looks back Prem had recently removed his equity hedges and telegraphed a series of all in bets. Today he has partially replaced his hedges and built a fortress balance sheet. Mr Mkt seems to only to be interested in FFH quarterly results hence the best guesses by some of the more informed posters here re this topic would be much appreciated as I would like MR. Mkt to pay for a nice gift for my wife for XMAS.

He was one of my heros for taking on Conrad Black and Hollinger . This took a great deal of courage which is something missing amongst the cadres of professional money managers. All too frequently when there is corporate malfeasance in the executive suite the reaction of investors is to sell the stock and move on. Thinking and ACTING with an owners mentality is one of the prime attributes of the value investor IMO. Mr Browne your clients and fellow value investors will miss you.

There is a rate of interest where I would vote yes and another that I would vote no

In my opinion the biggest risks in Canada in order of precedence are . Private mortgage Pools there are dozens of these of various sizes in Canada are opaque as heck and first to fail if houses start falling. Credit Unions especially Van City and Genworth which is a private sector mortgage insurer. I have considered shorting Genworth but have placed it on the two hard to ponder pile and invite the deep thinkers here to have a look. I suspect that it could go to zero pretty quickly if we have a spike in interest rates and residential real estate starts to fall.

I did not know that about relative debt to income ratios... where can I find those statistics? I agree that most people in Canada take mortgages with rates that reset every 5 years. I do not recall seeing 10 year mortgage rates listed in newspaper ads until the last last year or two (my memory could be faulty). Perhaps the banks have historically under-promoted the longer term fixed rate mortgages. Canadian 5 and 10 year fixed rate mortgages are 5.6% and 6.7% at the big Canadian banks right now. The spread between these rates has sometimes been wider--reducing consumer preference to go long. Both rates are quite a bit higher than current US 30 year fixed rates (4.8%). Can anyone tell me why there are no 25 or 30 year fixed rate mortgage products in Canada? Do the banks in Canada consider it too risky on their part? Is the 30 year fixed rate mortgage in the US a recent development or something that has been around for a long time? nodnub Here is a link to current stats from a reputable source http://www.rbc.com/economics/market/pdf/house.pdf

I thought about buying a second home a year ago; fortunately I looked harder at VRBO.COM and that talked me out of it. Just rent a place for 3 months. I've used VRBO several times in the past couple of years and recommended it to friends who have used it also. We have not had a bad experience yet so I recommend it. Nevertheless, I still hesitate and wonder whether I am going to get ripped off whenever I make the downpayment. Much cheaper and definitely more comfortable than staying in a hotel room esp if you are stayiong more than a week. Thats great info OEC2000. Thanks for sharing. Anyone else ever use this service? Smaz I have used VRBO many times and I can say my experience has been 100% positive.

I have read the article and the data WAS a correct description of the Cdn. vs US mkt however the Cdn mkt has changed significantly in the last 24 months. A very significant percentage of new purchase mortgages issued in Canada in last 2 years have been issued to buyers with very little skin in the game the banks in Canada are quite wisely not taking any of these high risk loans on their books they are passing the risk to the CMHC and to Genworth.

That I am not as brave as I thought I was. While I was willing to purchase during the decline I was unwilling to commit the last 30% of my cash. I went into the decline with a very large cash position( nothing seemed cheap enough and I was lucky) and bought stuff all the way down but when the March lows were made I was unwilling to deploy the balance of my cash. Many of the positions I held at the March lows have increased 500 to 1000% however my timidity cost me dearly, buying BAC @ 6 but not buying more at 3 buying Barclays @7 but not buying more when it was cheaper

I thought about buying a second home a year ago; fortunately I looked harder at VRBO.COM and that talked me out of it. Just rent a place for 3 months. Eric does that refer to vacation homes in general or just vacation homes in Vancouver. Vacation rentals in Vancouver do not work all that well from what I can see from the owners perspective in some markets however it appears that they can work fairly well. In fact rentals in VCR do not work at all. I have a friend who is renting a new condo and at market rents his landlord is generating a 1/2 of 1% cash on cash return.

Bargainman, I would put Bill Gates in the admired camp ,I am unsure on how Mr Nobel was perceived by his contemporaries.

Rabitt no restrictions at all on foreign ownership of real estate and if you insist on buying in Vancouver I will sell you mine

Its actually Warren the non-investor I am more in awe of. Warren has managed to accumulate a large circle of people who truely love him while simultaneously accumulating a huge pile of dough a feat that through out history has been almost impossible. Many of the worlds wealthiest have been feared fewer have been admired but Warren is adored by many an accomplishment that truely makes him stand out.

I will not provide a link because the details are frankly sickening however if even a small portion of the alleged conduct ,revealed in unsealed court documents are true concerning former SAC employees then I suspect a scandal of Enron or Watergate is importance is starting to emerge

Wealth and fame seems to be the most effective aphrodisiac available for the female half of our species. Its easy to be moralistic however as us mere mortals do not have any moral dilemas to deal with in those matters as we are completely ignored by the fairer sex. I can remember reading somewhere that Henry Kissinger who physically has to be one of the most unappealing male specimans that god ever breathed life into, was constantly receiving letters from female admirers who wanted him to father their children. I suspect that deep down that behind many of our efforts to attain material wealth is a secret desire to have Tigers problems.