Myth465

I agree Zorro. Prem can inmo only slow this process down. I cant see any other major share holder backing Ward and without TPG we would have a $4 share price. I like the Permian sale, myself and many analyst have recommended it as potential funding solution. A sale with another Miss JV, and a new focus on undervalued GOM assets at 2x cash flow in small bits and pieces and the Miss Lime with natural gas assets in the back pocket would have been very sensible from 2011 to 2012. I can even understand the drop in ROR but had how it was glossed over and handled, they have gone out of there way to point out 88% returns, and vaguely mention the fact that those return projects have been cut in half. Ward is a value investor, and should be a consultant for oil and gas strategy. But he has no busy running a public company. SD should have been private, he has shown that he wants to make money off of shareholders instead of with them...

Zorrofan whats your opinion, you have been in the oil patch for a while. My thoughts are here http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/investment-ideas/sd-sandridge-energy/msg94138/#msg94138 I would prefer to SD to be sold at $9 - $10 a share. That would give me an adequate return for the time invested, would stick it to the BOD and Ward to a degree, would enhance governance at other firms, and would allow me to take a massive chunk of capital and invest in something else.

Thanks Plan. I find that site very interesting.

Ya this is one of the saner discussions lol, which is why I decided to throw my hat in, it also appears to be a discussion and not just everyone stating their ideology. This is a very simple problem, too many people are wedded to their ideology and its more about getting what you want and being pure vs. solving the fiscal issues facing this great nation. These discussions have a very distinct process flow. Buffett says something on taxes. It gets posted here. Many great fans of Buffett here say, 1 he is a hypocrite because of his tax breaks and tax avoidance, 2 he isnt giving proper care to double taxation or spending cuts 3 the old man was much better when he didnt comment on these things and he should stick to investing 4 the government spends too much and taxation is akin to physical rape Debate ensues between liberals, libertarians, anarchists, and conservatives Mostly along Ideological lines. Hitler is eventually brought up. Debate ends with no one having grown, learn, or changed their minds. The process begins all over again when Buffett post another article or grants an interview and speaks on taxes. I decided to clock out this year, but its so tough to stay away....... Fun to watch though.

Thanks Eric, will look at the post in more detail tonight, I am still trying to get my arms around this franking. Whats funny is I am probably one of the few members of the board who is seriously double taxed. All my income is subject to both US and AUS taxes. I get the worst of both worlds, and have really thought about the best way to structure my holdings due to it....

sreenr - I think its a tough one. Income inmo is when you can use the money for your benefit and have control and access. Its tough because a guy making 150k working his ass off pays taxes at the max rate, but a guy receiving dividends pays at a special low rate. Its inherently unfair inmo. When its in Corporate hands the person doesn't control of it (typically, unless its closely held) or have access to it, and inmo there is no special rule saying money can only be taxed once. Money is taxed several times in our economy. What I would do is have a fairly low Corporate tax rate for 1 reason, and 1 reason only. Corporations are mobile, its rough though because Home Depot and Walmart pay the max tax rate, and if you change the rate you may actually lose money overall (the broader base and loophole closing may not make up for the shortfall). I think we have a lot of tax leakage with companies selling into the US but not paying taxes due tech transfers and structuring. I am for lowering the corporate tax rate, but any lose in revenue will have to be made up on the person side, largely on the top end or with a VAT with some sort of credit for low income / poor. With a low Corporate tax rate, a low dividend tax, a lowish capital gains tax, and a Buffett minimum tax I think you cover all your basis. Personally I think many underestimate Buffett, he sees the pitchforks and will not be gored with the rest of the Grade A prime cattle. A smart man indeed, what you have can be taken via taxation, votes, or by force but inmo it will be taken at some point.

I do believe Norquist does believe income should only be taxed once or if possible not at all ;D.... Personally I dont care what happens with this cliff, my only hope is that he loses his strangle hold on an entire political party. How one loser like him managed to take over the republican party says more about the party than him inmo. As he says though, this isnt his first rodeo, so time will tell. Taxes on mostly the rich and upper middle would go up, loopholes would be closed, and Corporate tax rates would come down but not too much. Corporate loopholes would also be closed. AMT would be eliminated entirely and replaced with the BMT - Buffett Minimum Tax at 30% and 35%. I am for spending cuts, and think the real bug bear is defense spending, its a very low return investment. Next I would prefer a public option to cut the % of GDP that healthcare gets (one of the highest in the world), finally I would fix up entitlements by cutting and means testing benefits. I would also be hated by 100% of the country, managing to piss off just about every special interest group in existence. Taxation is at its lowest point in modern times, spending at its highest. Sounds like everyone is winning but the federal balance sheet ;D. My irritation is people talk about cuts, but never want to cut defense. It makes them appear a bit dis-ingeniousness.

Where is it written that money can only be taxed once?

I would like to know how this compares to Snowball and Lowenstein's book.

Cardboard if you say anything about taxes you will piss off somewhere between 50% - 100% of people. His only other option is to say nothing, and I think he has earned the right to air his opinion. I dont think he is trying to fix the deficit, but is trying to address inequality and equability, he even says as a start the rich should pay more, because inmo you cant start cutting without demanding those who have alot and have benefited alot give more. I tend to agree with him, but thats not worth much. rkbabang - I dont agree with you 100%, but I respect your opinion because you do what few others who believe what you believe do - point to the real pork in the room, defense spending. Its the one thing we pay a bunch for, but receive little in return inmo. Very low return investments.

Cardboard - I can search here and see the same arguments on both sides being made by the same people all throughout the year, and late last year....

These are the same arguments battered around whenever Buffett post an article. Nothing to see here....

This is a very good thread, a new take on an old discussion.

No idea. He's just not posting as much right now. Cheers! Actually, I just checked...he's definitely lurking...just not posting. Moore, stop your lurking...you know you've got stuff to say! ;D LOL

Very good interview.

There you go. Bullish till the vary end... OSG bits the dust. Money will be made here by the vultures at some point.

Buffetts a funnny guy. What a folksy troll.

Its interesting though. Google is Microsoft and Apple is Apple. I have an HTC one but the Nexus 4 looks sweet. Google has 5 massive hardware companies all creating phones for them and pushing the boundaries. They also have smart phones from $100 to $700. This is interesting to watch, I have no dog in this fight, but I have a feeling Google will continue taking share.

I have the nexus 7 and its a nice device. I think the Chromebooks will take a bit of market share from mac book airs as well.....

Wooo, I had been stocking the shipping stocks for 2 years and quit about a year ago. What happened at OSG. They always seemed like Perma bulls. Will have to look into this one...

10 - 20 times the amount of money stolen in fines, 1-2 years in prison, and barring from the industry and trading for life is what I would give if I was a judge.

I have found both of these to be true.

I am noticing a trend regarding story stocks...

I dont think you have followed Munger's lead, honestly it appears that you have done just the opposite. I could never in a million years imagine Charlie Munger phrasing such a question to his dear friend Warren Buffett or anyone else. I understand Lloyd Bentsen alot more after reading this..... Plenty of sites and people have mounted worthy arguments (Buffett has explained where he stands on this issue and more importantly why), but I think your mind is made up...

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