doughishere

Bethany McLean was on npr during rush hour today.

Merk, i get it. I sound like the crazy bird lady. And I will be the first to admit there is no evidence. Is there anything that crazy about what's said in the forensic doc even if the dir signed off on it?

And I'm sure they wouldn't mind a headline to the effect of "taxpayers earn $200 billion profit on Fannie/Freddie bailout" I absolutely agree. I understand doughishere's point, but don't see any repubs taking this angle. Populism is sweeping across the US as evidenced by the leading candidates (on both sides) for president. I don't think politicians of either side want ANY association (real, imagined, direct, or indirect) with hedge-funds. Who cares about the hedge funds, at worst you are netural towards them. You dona atta boy them publicly....You get to do what youve been trying to do for the last 8 years..screw over the Obama administration. What better way to play the populism part then to get up in front of the people and say "Look at Obama, he wants to take away your business without just compensation?" You think Joe the plumbers is gonna hate the hedge fund guy or Obama more? Even Libertarians like Richard Epstein dont like what Obama has done despite not exactly loving Fannie and Freddie. I think Epstien even says that him self somewhere. If you can convert the Libertarians you can get the far right. I hate to get into this. Its more of a political discussion and its my experience that Value Investors stay away from politics as much as possible....but it is pretty juicy. The other thing that got me thinking about this is how Bethany Mclean talks about this on the few clips ive seen from her....Enron was before my time so all i have to go off is google searches, books and vids. But man, she looks like shes been down this road before. A friend of mine uses the quote "Where theres smoke, theres fire." Normally I hate it, I like to see the fire before i shout it but...... maybe im just getting too excited.

You know I re-read the original Forensic Look by Adam Spittler and Micke Cklin last night. I think about the Ugoletti testimony, the other testimonies, former White House National Economic Council senior adviser Jim Parrott deposition. What if in some of these depositions they lie under oath? Is that even possible these days? And all i can think is that this just screams House of cards style scandal. All you need is a whistle blower to come out and talk about whats in the redacted documents. Just imagine that. Start up the hearings. If I were the Republicans thats exactly what i would want, especially in an election year. Yeah it'd be nice to screw over hedge funds and reap the tax payers $200B. Thats good fantastic. But I gatta think, What better way to get you street cred than going after the Obama administration for breaking the 5th amendment, a massive Enron style accounting scandal....not by business but by insiders at the Treasury and with the Obama administration knowledge(maybe, maybe not). I mean thats some Iran–Contra shit right there. Then on top of all that you can sit down and say...Look at us were pro-business, pro home owner, pro Constitution. You can now have something to really taint his legacy. Shit it might even be grounds for impeachment. Again a bit conspiracy theoryish but i dont think its all that impossible.

Nick Timiraos reoportedit was blocked this morning.

I've written books about Enron and the financial crisis. But Fannie Mae is the scariest of them all. By Bethany McLean. http://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ive-written-books-enron-financial-crisis-fannie-mae-scariest-mclean “The GSE world is a cross between Monty Python and Shakespeare.” Right now, a group of investors is suing the U.S. government over how it has handled Fannie and Freddie, and while you might think that the investors, which are mostly powerful hedge funds, are only looking after their own dollar—and they are—I’ve also come to believe that they’re looking after the rest of us by providing a check on the government’s behavior that otherwise wouldn’t exist.

I'm gonna overstep my bounds a little bit but one thing i think that Berkawitz and Ackman could do is empathize with America a little more. F&F arnt out to hurt Americans there there to help. But that message is lost. I read quotes like “most American homeowners don’t know that they are in an intimate financial relationship with these enormous companies,” and that the U.S. Government’s decision to keep Fannie and Freddie in perpetual conservatorship is “fundamentally unstable” for our economy and could prove to have devastating consequences for the housing market." and all I think about is that this basically tells Americans that they are to stupid to realize that they are being hurt. I'm sorry I would be pretty pissed if someone said, "Your too dumb to understand all this financial stuff, leave it to us to tell you what you should think." So naturally all I'm gonna see is "enormous companies," remember how I lost my job in 2008 because of these companies, still have to write checks to these companies for my home and then turn around and listen a wall street guy tell me I'm supposed to love these companies. Is as if we've enter a Financial Cold War. That we (as shareholders) asked Americans to go out and fight the Financial crisis of 2007–08, ie. suffer the consequences, and now tell them that they dont know shit. Why scare Americans more with lines like "perpetual conservatorship is “fundamentally unstable” for our economy and could prove to have devastating consequences for the housing market?". Its.....Its....elitist is what it is. I get really cocky(and un-empathetic) at times but there has to be a better message to send. After all these companies were originally chartered in the grips of the Depression to give hope. Edit: Sorry for going all meta.

I can give you my bank number and you can engineer some losses right into my account.

Yup, Dougie. Mo' Depositions. "Fairholme lawyers are also planning to depose former White House National Economic Council senior adviser Jim Parrott, who was directly involved in the sweep decision, sources told The Post."

It was really something to be a part of. Just re-read the Joint Plan of Reorganization like 2 months ago. Still have the documents they sent me. I remember in the middle of the blow up of 09 going down to one of the malls and watching all the people still shopping their hearts out. Just thinking they had a dozen others like this.

What's the pod cast I've never heard I've it. What's the link!!!! When I boil it down I genuinely think what a waste it is to have his, et all's experience is wasted on the "old."

The wiki article he talks about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_beauty_contest To think that Marks takes the time to write a memo about "second level thinking" at 70 is astounding. Even he has to think about it now. Buffet, munger...they continue to think the same now too. How many times have you read these guys and they drill the same sayings over and over again....even at 70?!.....makes me feel kinda bittersweet I wonder what these guys were like in their 20s and 30s, 40.....

Anyone read the book yet?

Sometimes i feel like there is little worth in asking if "this is still true today?" What we need to be asking is are we applying what their are saying to use. We can sit here and debate if this is "still true today" but ultimately i feel like that doesn't get us anywhere. Let me use an analogy. The NFL is a lot different in 2015 than it was in 1960. Players are bigger, players are faster....players dont smoke and drink on the sidelines. Players drink protein shakes, dietary improvements make for stronger players. Platyers train in the off season. The technical part of the game has changed. There a lot more different plays to run in a game. WE look at film...monitor how athletes move on the field with RFID. You have to play the game as it is while you are playing the games. Take any player from the 60s and the equivalent now and the now player will be better trained. The NFL is more competitive with out a doubt. Just as the NFL has changed over times, so has the business field. Emphasis should be on being a clear thinker and should be "concerned with concepts, methods, standards, principles, and above all with logical reasoning. "....but times are different. BG never lived in times of HELOCs or SIVs or Dot coms or internets or the million other changes that have happen since that quote. Just the way Archie Manning hasent played in the NFL Peyton or Eli currently do. One of the reasons i like following Ackman or Berkawitz is that you can actually learn from them. I can piece together what they are thinking, what they are looking for, what they are avoiding, how the law works. Stepping though the "logical reasoning" with them I can learn about concepts and maybe if im luck apply them in the future when they are no longer around. I'm lucky i can go to PACER and get the court documents from my office. I dont have to be in NYC anymore instead i can be on vacation when something comes out. Its a daunting task to look around at everything being a newbie, lets face it even me at 30 i'm still a newbie, but you have to get out there and do it. I understand the irony in my post here, but anecdotal comments don't mean shit. You have to get in the dirt, you have to get in the mess, you have to bite off more than you can chew. This is mostly why i keep my mouth shut. Even Buffet at one point didnt know why GEICOs business model was attractive. BUT HE KEEPS LEARNING. You have to work hard to continue learning. you have to ask the dumb questions, you have to search out the answers. I will say this also, I feel there are a lot more distractions.

I guess not really rumors, but the reported golf outing leading to a settlement. The Obama Administrations lawyers have only seen the documents for 2 weeks now. Thats a pretty big reason why not to release the sealed documents and for the extension, but then again Fairholme is the one that wants the extension.

Think the Obama rumors are true. That was only last week.

If people did the right thing we wouldn't need courts.

She just kinda kicked the ball down the field

Fairholme's the ones that wanted the extension.

I just dont buy the rumors of a settlement. Think there are going to be more depositions?

I feel like its kind of neutral. L Why would the plantifs want to extend Discovery?

Court Documents Stay Sealed in Fannie, Freddie Case -- Market Talk Last update: 04/09/2015 1:57:43 pm 16:57 EDT - A judge in the US Court of Federal Claims today denies motions to make public certain documents and depositions in a case between shareholders of Fannie Mae (FNMA) and Freddie Mac (FMCC) and the US government. The shareholders are challenging the government's 2012 decision to sweep nearly all of Fannie's and Freddie's profits when they make one, but not require dividends when they don't. The plaintiffs in the case, which include mutual fund manager Fairholme Funds, in redacted court filings have said the documents undermine the government's public reasoning for the sweep--namely that government officials were afraid that Fannie and Freddie would need to draw on bailout funds to pay dividends. The decision is a small blow to shareholders, who are also fighting a public relations battle to win over the public and policymakers and perhaps drive the government towards a settlement. (joe.light@wsj.com; @joelight) (END) Dow Jones Newswires

last but not least http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/sweeneydocdecision.pdf

General Growth Properties. http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/joseph.pagliari/files/IS/GGPCaseStudy.pdf

From Todd Anyone have that full text of the WSJ article?