cubsfan

Well said Foreign Tuffett - if the opinions expressed don't agree with your viewpoint, I expect you prefer the echo chamber. Pretty simple stuff - silence the opposing viewpoint and carry on. What does that look like exactly? Accuse the opposing view of making money while real people are suffering? Sure, accuse the President of risking 500,000 American lives, just so he can get re-elected. That's what it looks like. Then you don't need to hear any opposing opinion. This: I didn't know I wasn't allowed to express my opinion on disgusting comments like this - obviously that's not allowed - right Eric? Am I not allowed to defend the President?

Well said Foreign Tuffett - if the opinions expressed don't agree with your viewpoint, I expect you prefer the echo chamber. Pretty simple stuff - silence the opposing viewpoint and carry on. What does that look like exactly? Accuse the opposing view of making money while real people are suffering? Sure, accuse the President of risking 500,000 American lives, just so he can get re-elected. That's what it looks like. Then you don't need to hear any opposing opinion.

Well said Foreign Tuffett - if the opinions expressed don't agree with your viewpoint, I expect you prefer the echo chamber. Pretty simple stuff - silence the opposing viewpoint and carry on.

The bill will have a lot of garbage in it regardless of who wrote it. In like the a German system better where the largest party write the bill together in committees and then do a formality vote. Germany pushed though their stimulus bill, we are in here for a period of public haggling before every party got their share of pork in order to vote on this. That public haggling is pretty much part of the process. TARP in late 2008 was just the same thing. Tell me about it Spek - time is of the essence - remember? I mean this thing has exponential growth, day by day. So let's hold the country HOSTAGE while we take our time and stuff it full of the "Green New Deal" and Identity Politics legislation. Now that is a serious partner in the war on VC. Be proud of those democrats.

Hey, don't post stuff like that here. There is no middle ground possible here. You'll get the same ridicule from this crowd as Trump!

Yeah , right - the President slaps a travel ban on, daring to stop the influx of Chinese nationals - and the opposition party fights him all the way as a xenophobe. And the media eats it up, while defending China all the way. And of course, now, with the strictest social distancing, isolation policies and quarantining in our history - "The President blew it, according to you guys. A lot of the country looks really safe now BECAUSE of Trumps actions. All this, no thanks to the open border crowd that just loves China. Now the man is trying to find the right medium between destroying a multi-billion dollar economy and containment. But you guys have all the answers. You guys kill me!

The opposition party can certainly be blamed for doing nothing for 3 years - nothing - not governing but destroying the government. Are the states with the largest CV problem (NY, CA, IL, WA) to be blamed because they are run by Democrats? Of course not - it's Trump's fault!

What if I care about all people but I choose to favor lives that won't come back above jobs that eventually will? I'm sure you are a complete humanitarian and a generous person. I'm not questioning that. I don't understand the scorn reserved for the President at a time of crisis. Some things are not going to go correctly, yet this is being used as the time to bring him down. Continue to have at it. It will likely work where impeachment didn't. How is the opposition party absolved of ANY responsibility here with a 3 year clusterfuck where the #1 issue was get rid of Trump and NOT GOVERN? Totally wasting everyone's time for nothing and ignoring issues critical to the country. How is the opposition party absolved of using this crisis to stuff a critical bill full of crap that has nothing to do with solving a crisis? How is the opposition party absolved of the fight to recalibrate our relationship with China - which clearly needs to happen? Where were the governors that rooted on "open borders" and no immigration security and crapping on our streets? Do any of these politicians share any blame? Nope - not when you can blame it all on the President you hate. Continue to focus all your scorn on the President. You'll get you wish with wartime President Biden and associates Schiff, Pelosi and Nadler. Can't wait to see how they deal with this once they open the borders.

I'm saying there are people on this board with very safe jobs and homes, that can't wait for the President to make another mistake - so they can trash the shit out of him - while real suffering is going on. It's easy to say - Nope, President Trump - it's stupid to consider ending this lockdown, in some form or another. Who cares about the working man, when you have a job, and the economy is getting destroyed.

I don't think so Eric - you guys can hardly contain yourself anymore. You know you got the President now and you're keeping your fingers crossed that events go wrong for him. The perfect armchair quarterback situation, while you make money and people's lives are destroyed.

Are you incurious as to why Trump kept saying this is a hoax and a conspiracy against his presidency long after he was briefed about the threat and it continued to spread? Surely you understand there is some mental illness there. The man literally believed this was a global conspiracy against his presidency. Eric - I am APPALLED at a bunch of very smart financial people (on this board) with very SAFE jobs, from the comfort of their own homes - are so GLEEFUL at the destruction of millions of jobs and the economy - so long as President Trump is destroyed. While many of them make money. I find it totally disgusting.

No worries Spek, we knew exactly what you meant.

No , you all just LOVE to present false dichotomies in hopes of destroying the President - and you know it. I mean, it's not like the real choice might be between another Great Depression and millions of financially ruined lives. You guys give 2 shits about that - you want the President destroyed and you know it. Easy choice coming from a bunch of people with great jobs - while others in real pain side with the President on finding workable alternatives. It's just great to see the great minds here on COBF have it all figured out what the Presidents real motivations are.

Of course Trump will make that choice! - he is the evil Donald Trump and is a mass murderer. He should have been impeached long ago. While the economy gets destroyed - you guys with good jobs could give 2 shits about Joe/Mary Sixpack that lost jobs and live paycheck to paycheck. Like Trump, they are just greedy money grubbers! Screw 'em. So, yeah - NO debate needed on Trump attempting to save the economy - you guys got it all figured out! You guys are a joke!

That's known facts but US is/was a manufacturing powerhouse - it won't take long to catchup. It's about people's will. Rollup the sleeves and get to work! i think big companies will rethink supply chain moving forward - China is holding too many cards - the manufacturing, and the intellectual properties! https://amgreatness.com/2020/03/23/end-chinas-chokehold-on-pharmaceuticals/ One of the most important lessons here is that China controls our healthcare. This is no exaggeration. From pharmaceutical building blocks to finished drugs and components in diagnostic medical equipment, our chief global rival has complete monopoly on the tools we need to diagnose, treat, control and cure disease. A strong domestic healthcare manufacturing base is as much a matter of national security and defense as it is of public health and augurs the very survival of a nation. The current coronavirus epidemic arose from the very conditions due to which we lost our manufacturing independence: China lacks health and safety standards that allow it to price us out of competition by flooding the market with cheap and frequently substandard goods and medications. in an article in Xinhua, the state-run media agency considered the mouthpiece of the Communist party, China bragged that it could throttle pharmaceutical exports and plunge America into “the mighty sea of coronavirus.” This demonstrably underscores our vulnerability to the weaponization of foreign-sourced supply chains and its potential to be used as leverage in times of national crisis.

https://www.mitre.org/sites/default/files/publications/COVID-19_MITRE_Action_Paper_March-2020.pdf These guys would agree with you: • We believe that we need to reduce the human-to-human contact rate of Americans by 90 percent to stop this epidemic. Specific recommendations: 1. Immediately close all schools and institutions of learning in the United States regardless of location (move to remote learning where possible). 2. Incentivize private enterprises to implement remote work policies and ensure social distancing is maximized in operating facilities. 3. Support and encourage commercial food, medical, and basic supply distribution businesses to remain in operation as well as related transport and logistics operations. Have the government ensure a sanitary environment for the production and delivery of materials and protect employees of these entities with testing and protective gear. 4. Shut down places of social gathering, including restaurants, bars, movie theaters, concerts, sporting events, etc. 5. Extend the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommendation to build home food supplies to everyone, not just the elderly. Provide financial support and food to those who cannot afford or are otherwise unable to do so. 6. Seal or restrict all U.S. borders to all forms of traffic/transport, after allowing a week for Americans to return home if they desire. 7. Depending upon the number of cases in a country from which an American is returning, quarantine returning citizens in hotels or other facilities, one to a room, with skeleton staff (also protected). Ensure these facilities are supplied with food, water, and communication capabilities, compensating the facility providers with federal monies. 8. Incentivize Americans not to leave their home for anything other than medically necessary movement or to work in support of other NPIs and U.S. critical infrastructure. 9. Provide compensation (net-out payments to employees) to business owners for temporarily closing non-essential businesses that require major physical presence at their facilities to operate. 10. Ensure that food, water, and medically necessary products and services delivery capabilities remain in place, or are extended as needed throughout the country, compensating providers appropriately. 11. When the observed reproduction number drops sufficiently, until all new cases are under contact tracing (depends on existing level of infections, which have to be measured carefully and continuously), begin to gradually lift implemented NPIs (epidemics die off quickly when observed reproduction rates drop well below 1). Once there are no new cases for at least one week, we can begin to lift NPIs. We must be extremely vigilant and thorough with our testing in order not to stop social distancing actions too early, or we may face a resurgence of the epidemic. We anticipate the NPIs will have to remain in place for at least three months. 12. Diligently monitor for residual infections and aggressively quarantine families of new patients for three weeks, providing basic services as needed. Provide consistent supports for those families during the quarantine period. 13. Do not unseal borders until the global pandemic is under control. 14. Prepare for resurgence and watch case counts for signals that a second wave of actions is needed. Make sure there is a widespread surveillance and testing capability in place to detect and monitor infections. CONCLUSION

An excellent document (2 days old) provided by a good friend of the board: https://www.mitre.org/sites/default/files/publications/COVID-19_MITRE_Action_Paper_March-2020.pdf I suggest going right to the specific recomendations (page 7), as you all get the problem is out of control. Here's a glimpse: • We believe that we need to reduce the human-to-human contact rate of Americans by 90 percent to stop this epidemic. There are 14 Specific Recommendations, here's the first 3: Specific recommendations: 1. Immediately close all schools and institutions of learning in the United States regardless of location (move to remote learning where possible). 2. Incentivize private enterprises to implement remote work policies and ensure social distancing is maximized in operating facilities. 3. Support and encourage commercial food, medical, and basic supply distribution businesses to remain in operation as well as related transport and logistics operations. Have the government ensure a sanitary environment for the production and delivery of materials and protect employees of these entities with testing and protective gear.

The issue is a recalibration of our relationship with China, not Canada. So Trump is an idiot for screwing with Canada, our strongest ally. He's not perfect. My comments apply to the USA and Canada in regards to the Chinese Communist Party leverage over both of our countries. The man has been correct about the trade issue, supply chains, and depending on a dangerous regime. Both Canada and the US should be less eager to outsource key industries, and our futures to a regime that systematically lies and cheats it's trading partners - especially with this disaster the regime created for the whole world. Mcliu has it right - source it and diversify it elsewhere.

From May 2019: https://www.foxnews.com/us/america-dependent-china-medicines "Imagine if China turned off that spigot," said Rosemary Gibson, author of "China RX: The Risks of America's Dependence on China for Medicine." "China's aim is to become the global pharmacy to the world -- it says that. It wants to disrupt, to dominate, and displace American and other Western companies." "I have no doubt that they would consider weaponizing their dominance of the pharmaceuticals market if they felt that that would give them an advantage over us strategically," retired Brig. Gen. John Adams "In five to 10 years, when China has a complete chokehold over the United States and its supply of medicine, it's gonna be telling us how much to pay for our medicine," Gibson told Fox News. "We will lose control over how much we pay. We will be the price taker, not the price setter. And that's devastating." In 2015, China unveiled "Made in China 2025," a national plan to make it the world's leader in 10 high-tech manufacturing sectors, including bio-medicine, by 2025.

You are correct.... https://saraacarter.com/coronavirus-china-has-us-by-the-throat-majority-of-u-s-drugs-manufactured-off-shore/ "Dr. Oskoui, a cardiologist affiliated with Sibley Memorial Hospital, said because 95 percent of all antibiotics are manufactured in China and this poses a very real national security threat to the United States, particularly when dealing with the global pandemic COVID-19" "He said that the pandemic has spurred important discussions on the failure of the United States pharmaceutical companies to manufacture the much needed and critical medicines, including medical equipment inside the country. Dr. Oskoui warned that outsourcing the manufacturing of much needed medicine leaves Americans extremely vulnerable and dependent on China." “It’s unacceptable that the Chinese have us by the throat and make 95 percent of our antibiotics. And that’s the critical thing that’s got to change soon…actually make it a priority.” “The United States of America should never be in that position,” he said. “I think we need to turn to people we know that worked for Pfizer, worked for Merck, work for Amgen, work for Gilead, worked for Bristol-Myers Squibb the U.S. drug companies and say ‘you know we understand that you have few share obligations to your shareholders but you also have an obligation to your fellow Americans, as American citizens as an American drug companies’ you need to start making it here just because you can make huge profits abroad we shouldn’t be vulnerable to economic and political blackmail and vulnerable to the medical downside of these drugs being manufactured off our shores.”

Yup, the USA is #1 producer of energy and food in the world. Totally self-sufficient. Should be the same for drugs, medical & tech. President has been correct about China all along, no doubt. The open borders and free trade crowd will never admit it. Nor will all the fools in the media that have marveled at China's economic miracle at the expense of political suppression, organ harvesting, and interment camps. No problem trusting China for our critical antibiotics, heart medicines and cancer drugs - once this is over right? Fortunately, if the US economy gets destroyed we will have plenty of cheap energy and food, since we don't depend on China for this too. I mean, why ruin China's reputation at the expense of saying DT has been correct all along?

So, I'm curious how you resolved the cognitive dissonance between being a passionate Trump supporter on China with the belief that the government should try to keep away from business. It feels like, if America wants to go this path of eliminating China from supply chains, it requires either massive tariffs or extreme regulations--basically the government completely destroying the supply chain of many businesses. (FWIW, I agree with you that Western countries ought to disassociate from China for all the reasons you say, but I can say that because I'm fine with government interfering with business for the greater good. But I don't see how one solves this problem if one believes the non-interference of government in business is the greater good. Can you enlighten me?) Richard - no simple answer because I am a free trade believer as well. But like our energy situation of 20 years ago - was it really wise to be reliant on Iran, Iraq, Venezalua, etc for our energy needs? Isn't this country in a vastly better situation now being energy self sufficient? Of course we are - and perhaps a combination of government policy on drilling and American ingenuity made the difference. That's what I'm saying about China - and our key industries like drugs, medical and tech. Clearly we don't want to be dependent on them for ALL or a MAJORITY of this anymore. Like players in the Middle East - why be overly dependent on people that hate us and we can't trust? Certainly we wouldn't do it for defense products - as a country we need to prioritize those key businesses. So how government moves us in that direction - trade wars, tariffs, tax holidays to bring cash home, etc - we ought to get there. And if Trump makes us see the benefits to employment opportunities for our citizens - it's just another bonus for the country. After this disaster, we are really going to needs those jobs. Like many things in life - you make these tradeoffs for the national interest and our citizens. Too extreme? Perhaps, but headed in the right direction: https://www.amgreatness.com/2020/03/20/sen-cotton-and-rep-gallagher-introduce-bill-to-eliminate-american-dependence-on-chinese-pharmaceuticals/ " Senator Cotton pointed out that “the Chinese Communist Party has threatened to cut off America’s access to vital drugs in the midst of a pandemic caused by its own failures,” and that “it’s time to pull America’s supply chains for life-saving medicine out of China" Medical equipment and technology should be under consideration as well...

Oh, yea - not illegal, but morally corrupt, they all need to go.

So, I'm curious how you resolved the cognitive dissonance between being a passionate Trump supporter on China with the belief that the government should try to keep away from business. It feels like, if America wants to go this path of eliminating China from supply chains, it requires either massive tariffs or extreme regulations--basically the government completely destroying the supply chain of many businesses. (FWIW, I agree with you that Western countries ought to disassociate from China for all the reasons you say, but I can say that because I'm fine with government interfering with business for the greater good. But I don't see how one solves this problem if one believes the non-interference of government in business is the greater good. Can you enlighten me?) Richard - no simple answer because I am a free trade believer as well. But like our energy situation of 20 years ago - was it really wise to be reliant on Iran, Iraq, Venezalua, etc for our energy needs? Isn't this country in a vastly better situation now being energy self sufficient? Of course we are - and perhaps a combination of government policy on drilling and American ingenuity made the difference. That's what I'm saying about China - and our key industries like drugs, medical and tech. Clearly we don't want to be dependent on them for ALL or a MAJORITY of this anymore. Like players in the Middle East - why be overly dependent on people that hate us and we can't trust? Certainly we wouldn't do it for defense products - as a country we need to prioritize those key businesses. So how government moves us in that direction - trade wars, tariffs, tax holidays to bring cash home, etc - we ought to get there. And if Trump makes us see the benefits to employment opportunities for our citizens - it's just another bonus for the country. After this disaster, we are really going to needs those jobs. Like many things in life - you make these tradeoffs for the national interest and our citizens.