Career Advice

[Phaceliacapital]

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Phcap

 

[giofranchi]

Phcap,

I am 12 years older than you… and since I started working, I don’t remember a single day in which I woke up thinking that I had to do something I didn’t like… I am serious! Not one day that I can remember! I have always concentrated on what I like the best and then seized the good opportunities that naturally presented themselves to me. If those opportunities entailed doing something I was not passionate about, I have always let them go… no matter how much rewarding they might have been in the future.

Of course, I am no particular success at all, and therefore I don’t see why you should heed my advice. But I can tell you I am happy.

 

Cheers and all the best for your future career, whatever your final choice will be! :)

 

Gio

 

[jouni1]

i'm three years older than you and work in a completely different industry. you didn't mention which pays more, i'm guessing the new fund job?

 

a few years ago i had to choose between a much higher salary and a "nicer" job. i chose more money.

 

i will always choose earlier retirement over a fun career. it would be nice to like your job but if you have to do 2 times as much to make the same money, it just doesn't make sense to me.

 

this doesn't mean you should. just thought i'd share the way i look at career choices. it's happiness vs. early retirement. if you don't have to make this choice you should choose the job that makes you happier and gets you closer to what you ultimately want to do.

[wachtwoord]

I think this will end up being a personal choice. I value independence a lot and have a entrepreneurial personality so I would probably opt for the more boring analyses in my own fund. Salary and future possibilities are also factors though.

 

Don't be afraid however to one day wake up in a job you always dreaded waking up in! You will be there every step on the way , constantly re-evaluating whether you're still doing what you want to be doing. When this is no longer the case, take action!

 

Good luck on your decision and congratulations on having the opportunity :)

 

PS: Analyzing sovereign debt does sound seriously boring though. I'm curious whether you'll find enough information to make decisions about low grade sovereign debt in an informed matter.

[giofranchi]

it's happiness vs. early retirement.

 

Ah! Well, of course I didn’t mention that I started some years ago a company with a capital of 1 million euros. Grew it at an 18% CAGR until now, and have the goal to keep making it grow, until its capital gets to be 1 billion euros. My idea basically is to achieve a 15% CAGR for the next 45 years. Though I am almost surely bound to fail, you can easily understand that “early retirement” is not an option I have even contemplated! ;D ;D ;D

 

Gio

 

[jouni1]

way to go gio! my goal is to get to where you started your company and move down there! after that i'll focus on eating well and enjoying life.

 

i won't quit trying to compound capital of course :D just trying to get rid of my day job, not hobbies  ;D

 

back on topic: if the boss you speak of is the one you would like to work for in equities too, maybe doing as he wishes truly does put you in front of the other competitors when more enticing jobs come around in the firm. i have found that volunteering for the shitty jobs makes me first choice for the better ones also.

[giofranchi]

way to go gio! my goal is to get to where you started your company and move down there! after that i'll focus on eating well and enjoying life.

 

;D ;D ;D

 

Gio

[Phaceliacapital]

back on topic: if the boss you speak of is the one you would like to work for in equities too, maybe doing as he wishes truly does put you in front of the other competitors when more enticing jobs come around in the firm. i have found that volunteering for the shitty jobs makes me first choice for the better ones also.

 

Yeah I don't think that if I choose to go for the high yield fund that say when, in 2 or 3 years, the opportunity arises I will be a candidate for one of the equity funds..

 

I specifically didn't put "salary" as a Pro because I know what it's like to do something that you don't like for an extended period of time (I didn't like it then and will surely not like it now) and that just doesn't work for me, I am more an intrinsic reward kind of guy...

 

If the fund would be equity/high yield focused on corporate bonds only it would be very easy, it's just the macro part of it all that is really bothering me. Imagine you spend 2 days a week looking at current account deficits, unemployment ratios and demographics of Greece/Ireland and have to base your investment decisions on this..

[Edward]

I once worked in a job I did't like that much for people I didn't like that much either. After 6 months I realized that for me, that's not the way to go.

 

Now, I live as though as I'm already retired - I work because I enjoy what I do and have no intention of ever "retiring". For me, that's the most important thing.

 

It really depends on your psychological makeup as well as your opportunities. For some it makes sense to grind hard for 10 years for a high salary, then retire.

 

For others, it's not something they would want to do even for a lot of money.

 

So it's not really happiness vs early retirement. You can have both if you do what you love and can't imagine yourself doing anything else.

 

It reminds me a story about how Warren Buffett went to give a talk to some MBA graduates. After the talk, one of the students comes to him and they talk. So Warren asked him: "What so you plan to do now, after graduation?"

 

The guy answered: "Well, I have everything figured out. First I go work for X for 2 years, then 2 more years at Y, then 5 years at Z......  .....and finally at year 12 I'll get to do the job I want to do".

 

Warren laughed: "If you know what you want to do - start doing it right away. Why wait? It's like deferring sex to when you're 60."

 

 

[Phaceliacapital]

Thanks for your comments all.

 

And yeah Edward I tend to agree..

 

Also for clarification, it is one of the funds within our firm, so I won't be changing companies. In addition, we're not that big here so I also want to be able to clarify why it don't see it as a good opportunity, which I think will be rather delicate..

[Green King]

I once worked in a job I did't like that much for people I didn't like that much either. After 6 months I realized that for me, that's not the way to go.

 

Now, I live as though as I'm already retired - I work because I enjoy what I do and have no intention of ever "retiring". For me, that's the most important thing.

 

It really depends on your psychological makeup as well as your opportunities. For some it makes sense to grind hard for 10 years for a high salary, then retire.

 

For others, it's not something they would want to do even for a lot of money.

 

So it's not really happiness vs early retirement. You can have both if you do what you love and can't imagine yourself doing anything else.

 

It reminds me a story about how Warren Buffett went to give a talk to some MBA graduates. After the talk, one of the students comes to him and they talk. So Warren asked him: "What so you plan to do now, after graduation?"

 

The guy answered: "Well, I have everything figured out. First I go work for X for 2 years, then 2 more years at Y, then 5 years at Z......  .....and finally at year 12 I'll get to do the job I want to do".

 

Warren laughed: "If you know what you want to do - start doing it right away. Why wait? It's like deferring sex to when you're 60."

 

This is better and more condensed than mine +1

[Kraven]

I have given a lot of career advice in my time.  Most things tend to fall into the same general categories.  You have not been "asked" whether you will take this position, you have essentially been "told" to take it.  Of course you have options.  You don't have to take it as you haven't been ordered to, but there are ramifications for that choice. 

 

Even if you hadn't said your age I would have known you were young when you talked about the fact that you don't think you will enjoy analyzing sovereigns.  It's nice to be young and idealistic.  I have to assume you don't have a family to support and the only one impacted by your decision will be yourself (if that isn't true, please say).  It's nice to be in that position.  It's nice to be able to think about what you enjoy. 

 

Let me translate your situation for you.  Your shop wants to start a new fund.  There is no one around to do it and they don't want to hire someone.  You are smart, your boss likes you and you've presumably done a great job so far.  So he will give you this great "opportunity".  There is very little downside for the firm.  If you do well, great!  If not, well, nothing ventured, nothing gained.  If there are medium results and AUM is rising they can always transition you again. 

 

So what do you do?  If you buy what I'm saying that you have been told to take this position, then you have a couple options.  Take the position and see what happens.  Young people always think that if they "waste" 6 months on something or a year that it's the end of the world.  It isn't.  In 10 years you will barely remember it.  So take it and maybe you like it.  If not, you see if there are other opportunities at the firm.  Otherwise, dust off that resume and move on.  Or, don't take it and see what the ramifications are.  If you start getting the cold shoulder, time to dust off that resume again and look around.

 

If possible, if you have a good relationship with your boss, I would attempt a heart to heart.  Take him out for a drink and tell him your feelings on it.  That it sounds great, but you have some concerns.  See what he says.  Of course to open that door you best be sure that you haven't opened the door to your execution. 

 

Hope this helps a little.

[giofranchi]

I once worked in a job I did't like that much for people I didn't like that much either. After 6 months I realized that for me, that's not the way to go.

 

Now, I live as though as I'm already retired - I work because I enjoy what I do and have no intention of ever "retiring". For me, that's the most important thing.

 

It really depends on your psychological makeup as well as your opportunities. For some it makes sense to grind hard for 10 years for a high salary, then retire.

 

For others, it's not something they would want to do even for a lot of money.

 

So it's not really happiness vs early retirement. You can have both if you do what you love and can't imagine yourself doing anything else.

 

It reminds me a story about how Warren Buffett went to give a talk to some MBA graduates. After the talk, one of the students comes to him and they talk. So Warren asked him: "What so you plan to do now, after graduation?"

 

The guy answered: "Well, I have everything figured out. First I go work for X for 2 years, then 2 more years at Y, then 5 years at Z......  .....and finally at year 12 I'll get to do the job I want to do".

 

Warren laughed: "If you know what you want to do - start doing it right away. Why wait? It's like deferring sex to when you're 60."

 

+1 and great post! :)

 

Gio

[Kraven]

I once worked in a job I did't like that much for people I didn't like that much either. After 6 months I realized that for me, that's not the way to go.

 

Now, I live as though as I'm already retired - I work because I enjoy what I do and have no intention of ever "retiring". For me, that's the most important thing.

 

It really depends on your psychological makeup as well as your opportunities. For some it makes sense to grind hard for 10 years for a high salary, then retire.

 

For others, it's not something they would want to do even for a lot of money.

 

So it's not really happiness vs early retirement. You can have both if you do what you love and can't imagine yourself doing anything else.

 

It reminds me a story about how Warren Buffett went to give a talk to some MBA graduates. After the talk, one of the students comes to him and they talk. So Warren asked him: "What so you plan to do now, after graduation?"

 

The guy answered: "Well, I have everything figured out. First I go work for X for 2 years, then 2 more years at Y, then 5 years at Z......  .....and finally at year 12 I'll get to do the job I want to do".

 

Warren laughed: "If you know what you want to do - start doing it right away. Why wait? It's like deferring sex to when you're 60."

 

This is not good advice in the least.  It's advice for people with their head in the clouds.  It's not realistic.  It's what people want to hear.  Just follow your dreams!  You can do anything!  The truth is most people can't do anything.  It's fine to follow this path so long as someone is aware that in 10 or 20 years they may have "enjoyed" what they do, but have nothing to show for it.  If you do this, have a backup plan . . . and then a backup plan for the backup plan.

[giofranchi]

This is not good advice in the least.  It's advice for people with their head in the clouds.  It's not realistic.  It's what people want to hear.  Just follow your dreams!  You can do anything!  The truth is most people can't do anything.  It's fine to follow this path so long as someone is aware that in 10 or 20 years they may have "enjoyed" what they do, but have nothing to show for it.  If you do this, have a backup plan . . . and then a backup plan for the backup plan.

 

Hey Kraven! Be patient! You know I am in love… and it is obvious I have my head in the clouds… How could it be different?! You shouldn’t have given me such terrific advices, if you wanted a “rational Gio”!! Your fault!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Gio

[thepupil]

my only advice would be to not express your concerns in a non-anonymous way with a picture of you as your icon thing on a popular investing message board.

 

it's a small world.

 

 

[thepupil]

just realized that is michael burry...nevermind

[giofranchi]

just realized that is michael burry...nevermind

 

WOW! For a moment I had thought you were his boss!! ;D ;D ;D

 

Gio

[Guest Qu1nt3ss0n]

I have given a lot of career advice in my time.  Most things tend to fall into the same general categories.  You have not been "asked" whether you will take this position, you have essentially been "told" to take it.  Of course you have options.  You don't have to take it as you haven't been ordered to, but there are ramifications for that choice. 

 

Even if you hadn't said your age I would have known you were young when you talked about the fact that you don't think you will enjoy analyzing sovereigns.  It's nice to be young and idealistic.  I have to assume you don't have a family to support and the only one impacted by your decision will be yourself (if that isn't true, please say).  It's nice to be in that position.  It's nice to be able to think about what you enjoy. 

 

Let me translate your situation for you.  Your shop wants to start a new fund.  There is no one around to do it and they don't want to hire someone.  You are smart, your boss likes you and you've presumably done a great job so far.  So he will give you this great "opportunity".  There is very little downside for the firm.  If you do well, great!  If not, well, nothing ventured, nothing gained.  If there are medium results and AUM is rising they can always transition you again. 

 

So what do you do?  If you buy what I'm saying that you have been told to take this position, then you have a couple options.  Take the position and see what happens.  Young people always think that if they "waste" 6 months on something or a year that it's the end of the world.  It isn't.  In 10 years you will barely remember it.  So take it and maybe you like it.  If not, you see if there are other opportunities at the firm.  Otherwise, dust off that resume and move on.  Or, don't take it and see what the ramifications are.  If you start getting the cold shoulder, time to dust off that resume again and look around.

 

If possible, if you have a good relationship with your boss, I would attempt a heart to heart.  Take him out for a drink and tell him your feelings on it.  That it sounds great, but you have some concerns.  See what he says.  Of course to open that door you best be sure that you haven't opened the door to your execution. 

 

Hope this helps a little.

Wonderfully said!

 

I've been a victim of being too idealistic in my youth which hasn't helped career wise. I'm a trader by profession, I stumbled into this role 10 yrs ago trading currencies and futures, but I've always seen myself working in buy-side equities. I figured hey I read a lot of books on investing, I manage money for myself and my family, I think abt intrinsic value of the market, not price action and other charting mumbo jumbo like my colleagues, Im also a bit more refined and polished, Im the only guy on the desk whose completed his CAIA and CFA. So one day I finally get this opportunity to work as a junior equity analyst at this research firm, with a team I really admire and follow (Im thinking, this would be a great foot in the door sort of thing to managing my own institutional portfolio). 1st day on the job i realize, I hate writing!

 

I love analyzing companies, reading annual reports, valuing stocks, but after that I make my investment decision, I can't for the life of me think of writing abt the damn stock! what a redundant thing to do(but hey thats just me).

 

In hindsight, I ended up passing up on a few opportunities that would have served me well as a trader, all because I was just too idealistic. Bosses who wouldve liked to have seen me move up in the organization but I kept pushing away. Today I am very lucky to be in a role where Im part of a startup fund and handling their trading and operations.. but its been a stop-start career life for me, with a few periods of unemployment.. not great when you have a family.

[Kraven]

This is not good advice in the least.  It's advice for people with their head in the clouds.  It's not realistic.  It's what people want to hear.  Just follow your dreams!  You can do anything!  The truth is most people can't do anything.  It's fine to follow this path so long as someone is aware that in 10 or 20 years they may have "enjoyed" what they do, but have nothing to show for it.  If you do this, have a backup plan . . . and then a backup plan for the backup plan.

 

Hey Kraven! Be patient! You know I am in love… and it is obvious I have my head in the clouds… How could it be different?! You shouldn’t have given me such terrific advices, if you wanted a “rational Gio”!! Your fault!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Gio

 

I do my best.  Now that you are a couple, she needs to see that you are sensitive and caring.  Tell her frequently that her best friend is really attractive and dresses quite stylishly.  Make sure that when they are together and you come upon them that you hug the friend first and hold it a few seconds too long.  When you release, say "that feels good and you smell really nice".  This will show your girlfriend that you're not afraid to give compliments and are good with her friends.

[Ham Hockers]

I agree with Kraven. Give it a try. And maybe this goes without saying, but if you do give it a try, don't half-ass it because you don't like it.

[Green King]

This is not good advice in the least.  It's advice for people with their head in the clouds.  It's not realistic.  It's what people want to hear.  Just follow your dreams!  You can do anything!  The truth is most people can't do anything.  It's fine to follow this path so long as someone is aware that in 10 or 20 years they may have "enjoyed" what they do, but have nothing to show for it.  If you do this, have a backup plan . . . and then a backup plan for the backup plan.

 

Hey Kraven! Be patient! You know I am in love… and it is obvious I have my head in the clouds… How could it be different?! You shouldn’t have given me such terrific advices, if you wanted a “rational Gio”!! Your fault!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Gio

 

I do my best.  Now that you are a couple, she needs to see that you are sensitive and caring.  Tell her frequently that her best friend is really attractive and dresses quite stylishly.  Make sure that when they are together and you come upon them that you hug the friend first and hold it a few seconds too long.  When you release, say "that feels good and you smell really nice".  This will show your girlfriend that you're not afraid to give compliments and are good with her friends.

does that work ? wouldn't that led to arguments ?

[giofranchi]

I do my best.  Now that you are a couple, she needs to see that you are sensitive and caring.  Tell her frequently that her best friend is really attractive and dresses quite stylishly.  Make sure that when they are together and you come upon them that you hug the friend first and hold it a few seconds too long.  When you release, say "that feels good and you smell really nice".  This will show your girlfriend that you're not afraid to give compliments and are good with her friends.

 

I was afraid I would have screwed something going forward… But now that I know how to be sensitive and caring, I am sure I cannot miss!! Like The Beach Boys say: “Everything is going to turn out all right”. ;D ;D ;D

 

Cheers!

 

Gio

[giofranchi]

This is not good advice in the least.  It's advice for people with their head in the clouds.  It's not realistic.  It's what people want to hear.  Just follow your dreams!  You can do anything!  The truth is most people can't do anything.  It's fine to follow this path so long as someone is aware that in 10 or 20 years they may have "enjoyed" what they do, but have nothing to show for it.  If you do this, have a backup plan . . . and then a backup plan for the backup plan.

 

Hey Kraven! Be patient! You know I am in love… and it is obvious I have my head in the clouds… How could it be different?! You shouldn’t have given me such terrific advices, if you wanted a “rational Gio”!! Your fault!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Gio

 

I do my best.  Now that you are a couple, she needs to see that you are sensitive and caring.  Tell her frequently that her best friend is really attractive and dresses quite stylishly.  Make sure that when they are together and you come upon them that you hug the friend first and hold it a few seconds too long.  When you release, say "that feels good and you smell really nice".  This will show your girlfriend that you're not afraid to give compliments and are good with her friends.

does that work ? wouldn't that led to arguments ?

 

GK,

You are still very young… As you grow older, you will realize you don’t have to ask!! Just do what Kraven suggests!! And you will forever be grateful!! ;D ;D ;D

 

Gio

 

[Green King]

This is not good advice in the least.  It's advice for people with their head in the clouds.  It's not realistic.  It's what people want to hear.  Just follow your dreams!  You can do anything!  The truth is most people can't do anything.  It's fine to follow this path so long as someone is aware that in 10 or 20 years they may have "enjoyed" what they do, but have nothing to show for it.  If you do this, have a backup plan . . . and then a backup plan for the backup plan.

 

 

Hey Kraven! Be patient! You know I am in love… and it is obvious I have my head in the clouds… How could it be different?! You shouldn’t have given me such terrific advices, if you wanted a “rational Gio”!! Your fault!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Gio

 

I do my best.  Now that you are a couple, she needs to see that you are sensitive and caring.  Tell her frequently that her best friend is really attractive and dresses quite stylishly.  Make sure that when they are together and you come upon them that you hug the friend first and hold it a few seconds too long.  When you release, say "that feels good and you smell really nice".  This will show your girlfriend that you're not afraid to give compliments and are good with her friends.

does that work ? wouldn't that led to arguments ?

 

GK,

You are still very young… As you grow older, you will realize you don’t have to ask!! Just do what Kraven suggests!! And you will forever be grateful!! ;D ;D ;D

 

Gio

 

I rather make my own mistakes. No else should the final say but after all he is not going to be around forever no matter how smart and all powerful he is. ;D