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Madoff


Crip1
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090209/bs_nm/us_madoff_sec_6

 

I really hope this guy gets his nuts nailed to the wall. If he gets to keep one thin dime, then anyone considering committing lying, cheating or stealing on a grand scale will look at doing so as "Heads I win (If I don't get caught, I am a billionaire), tails I don't lose much (I get to hang out in my penthouse and let my lawyers do my work for me)". He needs to end this with less than nothing. He needs to be left in a slum with each and every dime he earns going to his victims for the rest of eternity. In fact, how about making his kids pay the investors with a sliding scale of their future earnings, for as long as they live. Looking at him holed up in a penthouse apartment does NOTHING to discourage others. And you know there are those out there who are thinking "I can do that, only I'll be better at it than Madoff and NOT GET CAUGHT". Bastards...

 

It absolutely infuriates me that he's not in jail right now...not to mention that after reading the most recent Deep Capture blog, that the $50B Ponzi scheme may be the tip of the iceberg. 

 

OK, cooling down now...

 

 

-Crip

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Do investors who've done their due diligence and believe that they are buying real shares bare any responsibility when the system in which they are participating instead gives them ownership of nothing more than phantom shares?  If the Deep Capture guys are correct in their premise, that's exactly what's been happening to millions of investors who even now don't realize they are among Madoff's victims.  The thing that's got me more upset than anything lately is the very idea that the RegSHO threshold list is worthless, that even during the short selling ban last fall nearly a billion shares were sold short naked, all quasi-legally through the market maker exception, which was WRITTEN BY BERNARD FREAKING MADOFF!  The MM's are only supposed to be pulling this stunt as a means to provide that wonderful wonderful liquidity they tell us we need so badly, but they're supposed to cover at the earliest opportunity.  But in reality the only thing they have to do is maintain collateral on a mark-to-market basis, so if they continue selling naked short into the bid, the collateral they must maintain is reduced, even as they get to sit on their clients' money earning the interest on it.

 

We have no idea how many counterfeit shares make up what percentage of trading over the last decade, and it looks more and more every day like Madoff is right at the center of it all.  FFH is one of the very rare ones to overcome this.  How many more companies never stood a chance?

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Do his investors bear some reponsibility.  Black box investing, oh dear.

 

I hope you are not also of the view that victims of sexual assault who dress provocatively share responsibility for the crime. What Madoff did is unconscionable and inexcusable. It's a shame he didn't do this in S'pore. The authorities there would deal with him appropriately - but Crip, even there they don't nail people's nuts to the wall. ;)

 

An aside - do you know that in Dubai (and many of the Gulf states) people get thrown in jail for issuing cheques that they know will bounce? 

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Now Crip, That really wasn't very nice, (I wish I could put Mr. Spock raising his eyebrows here now).  ;)

Do his investors bear some reponsibility.  Black box investing, oh dear. 

 

The early Buffet partners were never told what their money was invested in. They trusted that WEB was honest.  Madoff was trusted by his investors and when they got their statements, they had no reason not to beleive them.  Also, don't forget people assume the SEC is looking out for them and that a crook will be caught. That is always the problem with government oversight of anything (food, medicine, product safety, investing, etc), people trust that oversight and look no further.  The only thing his investors are guilty of is trusting too much and maybe laziness and a little stupidity, none of which are crimes.  He is guilty of fraud on a grand scale, which is a crime.  If someone is unarmed in a bad neighborhood at night taking money out of an ATM, he may be stupid, but no one has a right to kill him and take his money.  Making yourself an easy mark, does not justify the crime against you in any way. Fraud and theft are crimes and the person committing them is solely responsible for them, regardless of how easy or difficult the victims are to steal from.  Have you ever heard a defendant say, "sure your honor, I kidnapped, raped, and killed the little girl, but it was just so damn easy to do. Surely I can't take all the responsibility.". Madoff is the one who bears responsibility for his own actions. If anyone else is to blame other than him it is the SEC for not doing its job and letting this go on for so long.

 

--Eric

 

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Looks like others are pretty ticked about this as well...and we were not even among those who lost their butts in his fund!!! The whole thing is really outrageous, even when he finally admitted that he was little more than a con artist/thief, he looked to take the scraps of his billions (million dollar scaps, mind you) and give them to his family and friends, further SCREWING THE PEOPLE HE ALREADY RIPPED OFF. It is clear that he did not feel the least bit bad about stealing, he did not care for the victims, but he only felt bad about having his con-artest machine fail. This is unacceptable behavior for anyone, anytime, anywhere. Hammer...nail...nuts...nice sturdy wall...that's about all you need.

 

I am not going to speak for Al, has he has shown over the years he is adept at doing so himself, but I would bet that there is an element of tongue-in-cheek to his remark. However, there is a kernel of truth to his statement as the adage of "If it sounds too good to be true, it probibly is" rings true here. One thing that I have tried to get through to my kids is that pretty much everyone you meet wants your money...and I do mean pretty much everyone. There is a similiarity between the Madoff victims and early Buffett partners. Warren is obviously trustworthy but how would one know? Warren states that when he looks at a manager he seeks one who loves the business, not who loves the money. Had investors looked at Madoff with such a discerning eye, he would not have swindled to the extent that he did. So, there is come culpability for these investors, and hopefully lessons will be learned by them and by the general public who saw this from afar.

 

-Crip

 

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