US is a poor country

[Sinbius]

Hi,

 

I always get the impression that people on this forum think of US as a rich country...with a great capitalistic system that produce wealth left and right if you only want to put the effort and have the initiative to do something in your life...the American dream...everyone has a shot at big success...

 

Enough talk let's show the numbers (global wealth report 2026 is the source)...: 

Median Wealth vs. Mean Wealth per Adult

 

Rank (Median)	Country / Market	Median Wealth (USD)	Mean Wealth (USD)	Impact of Inequality / Insights
1	Luxembourg	$394,005	$654,732	Balanced distribution; exceptionally wealthy middle class.
2	Belgium	$277,166	$408,000	High wealth equality with widespread homeownership.
3	Australia	$210,783	$616,036	Widespread wealth, but heavily skewed upward by ultra-rich.
4	New Zealand	$206,617	$449,852	Strong balance between total country wealth and distribution.
5	Denmark	$203,771	$523,344	Robust social safety net supporting middle-class stability.
6	Hong Kong (SAR)	$187,968	$648,267	Major financial hub with extreme capital concentration at the top.
7	Canada	$147,811	$399,886	Significantly more equitable distribution than its US neighbor.
11	Italy	~ $110,000	$279,439	Solid baseline wealth due to high homeownership and private savings.
15	Germany	$53,485	$346,613	Low homeownership rates; real estate wealth is concentrated in few hands.
28	United States	$68,998	$696,277	Extreme gap; billionaires heavily inflate a mean detached from daily reality.

Edited yesterday at 08:02 PM by Sinbius

[Sinbius]

In median wealth for person....is behind Italy, Spain, Portugal....etc...

 

If you have different numbers please show them ( and source).

Thx.

Edited yesterday at 07:54 PM by Sinbius

[whiskybravo]

The reason Southern Europeans have higher median wealth isn't because they earn more money.  It’s because of housing equity.

In Italy and Spain homeownership is high and properties are passed down through generations without massive mortgage debt.

Americans have access to the world’s largest high wage labor market and the opportunity to build a business.  They have exceptional earning potential and purchasing power. The same economy that produces extreme inequality also creates extraordinary upside for those who succeed. Americans have substantially higher disposable incomes than Italians or Spaniards even though median wealth is higher in some European countries.

Edited 23 hours ago by whiskybravo

[Sinbius]

I am reading....looks like rents and debt could be the main reasons...it seems that if you factor in the value of public safety nets (that Europeans have and it is like an hidden wealth and US have not) the gap is bigger...

Edited 23 hours ago by Sinbius

[whiskybravo]

Yep, if you start your adult life with student loans, pay a high rent, and have to finance a car your net worth stays near zero for a long time, even if you have a high income.

[73 Reds]

1 hour ago, Sinbius said:

Hi,

 

I always get the impression that people on this forum think of US as a rich country...with a great capitalistic system that produce wealth left and right if you only want to put the effort and have the initiative to do something in your life...the American dream...everyone has a shot at big success...

 

Enough talk let's show the numbers (global wealth report 2026 is the source)...: 

Median Wealth vs. Mean Wealth per Adult

 

Rank (Median)	Country / Market	Median Wealth (USD)	Mean Wealth (USD)	Impact of Inequality / Insights
1	Luxembourg	$394,005	$654,732	Balanced distribution; exceptionally wealthy middle class.
2	Belgium	$277,166	$408,000	High wealth equality with widespread homeownership.
3	Australia	$210,783	$616,036	Widespread wealth, but heavily skewed upward by ultra-rich.
4	New Zealand	$206,617	$449,852	Strong balance between total country wealth and distribution.
5	Denmark	$203,771	$523,344	Robust social safety net supporting middle-class stability.
6	Hong Kong (SAR)	$187,968	$648,267	Major financial hub with extreme capital concentration at the top.
7	Canada	$147,811	$399,886	Significantly more equitable distribution than its US neighbor.
11	Italy	~ $110,000	$279,439	Solid baseline wealth due to high homeownership and private savings.
15	Germany	$53,485	$346,613	Low homeownership rates; real estate wealth is concentrated in few hands.
28	United States	$68,998	$696,277	Extreme gap; billionaires heavily inflate a mean detached from daily reality.

Depends on how you measure wealth.  Looks like the US has the highest number on the far right.  If you are seeking to qualify that number, perhaps keep in mind that the US also is the Country with the most opportunity for success, if not one of them.  With opportunity comes success and failure, which also creates income/wealth disparity.  If you further want to qualify the number on the right, Americans also spend as much or more than residents of any other Country and my guess is the savings rate in the US is not as high as some of the other countries, on average.  And then there is the recently ended open border policy that allowed anyone to come into the US - not conducive to increasing per capita wealth statistics.  I think the only thing one can conclude is that your chart should be taken with a grain of salt.  

[adesigar]

1 hour ago, Sinbius said:

Hi,

 

I always get the impression that people on this forum think of US as a rich country...with a great capitalistic system that produce wealth left and right if you only want to put the effort and have the initiative to do something in your life...the American dream...everyone has a shot at big success...

 

Enough talk let's show the numbers (global wealth report 2026 is the source)...: 

Median Wealth vs. Mean Wealth per Adult

 

Rank (Median)	Country / Market	Median Wealth (USD)	Mean Wealth (USD)	Impact of Inequality / Insights
1	Luxembourg	$394,005	$654,732	Balanced distribution; exceptionally wealthy middle class.
2	Belgium	$277,166	$408,000	High wealth equality with widespread homeownership.
3	Australia	$210,783	$616,036	Widespread wealth, but heavily skewed upward by ultra-rich.
4	New Zealand	$206,617	$449,852	Strong balance between total country wealth and distribution.
5	Denmark	$203,771	$523,344	Robust social safety net supporting middle-class stability.
6	Hong Kong (SAR)	$187,968	$648,267	Major financial hub with extreme capital concentration at the top.
7	Canada	$147,811	$399,886	Significantly more equitable distribution than its US neighbor.
11	Italy	~ $110,000	$279,439	Solid baseline wealth due to high homeownership and private savings.
15	Germany	$53,485	$346,613	Low homeownership rates; real estate wealth is concentrated in few hands.
28	United States	$68,998	$696,277	Extreme gap; billionaires heavily inflate a mean detached from daily reality.

#15. Germany $53,485 - $346,614 is higher than 

#28. US $68,998 - $696,277 ?

 

 

[LC]

Honestly as I get older I find less and less reasons to remain in the US. Quality of life is just worse on the average.

Who wants to go out to eat and realize the waitress, the cooks, even the manager are living on the poverty line or already in poverty? It's gross and has only gotten worse over my lifetime.

 

Colorado is great because of the natural altitude, but it's not ski bums and crunchy hippies anymore, it's the rich who can afford 1M+ homes, and the have-nots that serve them and are forced to live in, essentially, ghettos. BC is looking better by the day. I am lucky to have citizenship options elsewhere in actual first-world countries. 

[whiskybravo]

15 minutes ago, LC said:

Honestly as I get older I find less and less reasons to remain in the US. Quality of life is just worse on the average.

Who wants to go out to eat and realize the waitress, the cooks, even the manager are living on the poverty line or already in poverty? It's gross and has only gotten worse over my lifetime.

 

Colorado is great because of the natural altitude, but it's not ski bums and crunchy hippies anymore, it's the rich who can afford 1M+ homes, and the have-nots that serve them and are forced to live in, essentially, ghettos. BC is looking better by the day. I am lucky to have citizenship options elsewhere in actual first-world countries. 

 

If your goal is to escape the $1M homes and struggling service workers, BC may not be the refuge you think. Vancouver is one of the least affordable housing markets in the developed world, while Canadian wages are lower than comparable U.S. wages.  In BC workers are being priced out of the communities they serve with long commutes, and high housing costs.

[LC]

1 minute ago, whiskybravo said:

If your goal is to escape the $1M homes and struggling service workers, BC may not be the refuge you think. Vancouver is one of the least affordable housing markets in the developed world, while Canadian wages are lower than comparable U.S. wages.  In BC workers are being priced out of the communities they serve with long commutes, and high housing costs.

 

You're right, and re: Vancouver I totally agree, not even up for consideration. I am looking more into the interior (golden, revel, kimberley etc.). 

 

I just think at least in Canada and EU, the social safety net (mainly healthcare) solves a lot of problems that would bankrupt a similar person in the states. It keeps people off the streets and makes society itself less cutthroat. I spent 10 years in Canada so I know it's not perfect, but weighing the pros/cons vs the States, I think it's a more reasonable tradeoff. 

 

Put more bluntly: I'd trade 100 US billionaires, and all the "wealth" they've created, for a more Canadian-esque society. 

[cubsfan]

1 hour ago, Sinbius said:

I am reading....looks like rents and debt could be the main reasons...it seems that if you factor in the value of public safety nets (that Europeans have and it is like an hidden wealth and US have not) the gap is bigger...

 

The United States is loaded with poor people. There are more whites in poverty than blacks. Thing is, most everyone has more than enough food to eat. Food is cheap here. Many of the poor are fat. Many Americans are fat.  Most people have a place to live, a car, and air conditioning. Poor have access to decent health care.

 

So it really depends on what you are measuring.

[whiskybravo]

23 minutes ago, LC said:

 

You're right, and re: Vancouver I totally agree, not even up for consideration. I am looking more into the interior (golden, revel, kimberley etc.). 

 

I just think at least in Canada and EU, the social safety net (mainly healthcare) solves a lot of problems that would bankrupt a similar person in the states. It keeps people off the streets and makes society itself less cutthroat. I spent 10 years in Canada so I know it's not perfect, but weighing the pros/cons vs the States, I think it's a more reasonable tradeoff. 

 

Put more bluntly: I'd trade 100 US billionaires, and all the "wealth" they've created, for a more Canadian-esque society. 

I have a suspicion this has less to do with universal healthcare than with wanting to live the ski bum lifestyle.

Edited 21 hours ago by whiskybravo

[cubsfan]

The Brookings Institute did a famous study.

 

How can a person do well in the USA - ie., stay out of poverty??

 

3  Things only required only in general:

 

1)  Graduate from High School

2) Get a full time job

3)  Do not have children out of wedlock

 

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/three-simple-rules-poor-teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/

 

 

 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by cubsfan

[thepupil]

i think the US is the best place to be at the  top 20% or so of society (sometimes I think this number is actually like top 2% but not really)...it drops off pretty quickly after that....if you have median gumption, median intelligence or median privilege, i don't think it's a great place to be relative to the others on your list. it's certainly a better place to be than other places not on your list. 

 

also, US is best place to live a suburban lifestyle, if you have a enough $$$. but asia is so much better for urban lifestyle because its so much safer and infrastructure is better. 

 

also, median asian and jewish wealth is about $0.5mm and median white wealth is $280K...so about 2/3 of the country represented by those folks are doing better than the whole.  

 

Edited 19 hours ago by thepupil

[Marco Van Basten]

2 hours ago, LC said:

 

You're right, and re: Vancouver I totally agree, not even up for consideration. I am looking more into the interior (golden, revel, kimberley etc.). 

 

I just think at least in Canada and EU, the social safety net (mainly healthcare) solves a lot of problems that would bankrupt a similar person in the states. It keeps people off the streets and makes society itself less cutthroat. I spent 10 years in Canada so I know it's not perfect, but weighing the pros/cons vs the States, I think it's a more reasonable tradeoff. 

 

Put more bluntly: I'd trade 100 US billionaires, and all the "wealth" they've created, for a more Canadian-esque society. 

So move to Canada, what's stopping you?  What are you smoking, poverty wages for waiters?  A fellow intern at Goldman told me that she made $400 a night waitressing in Manhattan in 1997.   Today in Manhattan, somebody with zero skills working at Chipotle makes over $60K per year + 401(k)+health insurance + dental plans plus two meals a day.  On Maui, a guy told me his daughter is a waitress at Mama's Fish House, and despite the place pooling tips, she clears more than $400 per day, plus health insurance, dental.  

 

Lastly, the wealth statistics are clearly bullshit. For starters, how do the statistics account for pensions, social security, private businesses?  In the US, more than sixty five percent of households own their own homes. 40.3% of US homes are owned without a mortgage.  So more than 26% of us households own at least one home without a mortgage.  Also, it would be instructive to know how many of people with median wealth below $60K in the US worked for at least thirty years. Costco pays $33 per hour to someone who works as a cashier with 30 years of experience, with health insurance, dental and 401(k).  Is that poverty level too?  Most of the kids I went to high school were first generation immigrants, most parents worked menial jobs, and now after thirty to forty years of working, all parents own their own homes, many own two homes.  So spare me the bullshit about poverty level wages.  

Lastly, you are missing cultural differences - in Europe they save, in US they spend.   know a 45 year old guy and his 40 year old wife, they live in a studio paying $1100 a month on Maui, combined income close to $150K per year, yet have no savings.  I know a doctor and his wife, $600K annual income in NYC, zero savings, why?  Take-out twice a day and four vacations a year including a $40K a year cruise.  

(By the way, a relative is a doctor in residency with $200K in debt and making $70K a year and aged 29.  In a few years, once she finishes residency, she is going to be making $300K+ per annum.  So is she poor?  A 29 European doctor is wealthier according to government statistics, but in reality, how much would he make in Europe once residency is over?)     

[RichardGibbons]

3 hours ago, LC said:

Put more bluntly: I'd trade 100 US billionaires, and all the "wealth" they've created, for a more Canadian-esque society. 

 

Interesting trade-off--giving away USA innovation seems pretty selfish to me. You prefer hundreds of millions to die of starvation and be stunted by malnutrition because of lack of food production innovation. You prefer a crushing reduction in life expectancy and devastating crippling injuries that would otherwise have been addressed by American medical innovations. You'd prefer not to have the Internet, smart phones, and such things that enable the sharing of knowledge and bringing people together.

 

That said, maybe you're right. As long as you're upper middle class or higher, people starving won't impact your day. Maybe you and your family won't get cancer or need knee replacements or whatever, and you're rich enough to pay for the education needed to acquire the knowledge for creating a productive and happy life. So, if you discount the outcomes on everyone else on the planet, maybe it is optimal for you to condemn the poor to the horrors that would otherwise have been addressed by US innovation, the stuff that has made those billionaires into billionaires.

[LC]

Sure, and Al Gore invented the internet and there are zero Canadian billionaires.

 

I think you're taking my point too far and making some assumptions and generalizations about what drove those accomplishments (and I'm sure I would agree with most of them).

 

 

39 minutes ago, RichardGibbons said:

Maybe you and your family won't get cancer or need knee replacements or whatever, and you're rich enough to pay for the education needed to acquire the knowledge for creating a productive and happy life

 

You're describing modern day America for a lot of people.

 

Put it this way: on one hand we love to say we have a better mousetrap and point to the successes of a pro-capitalism society, and on the other hand (and despite these so-claimed advantages) we have the same percentage of citizens in poverty, as our Canadian brothers. 

Edited 17 hours ago by LC

[Paarslaars]

7 hours ago, cubsfan said:

 

The United States is loaded with poor people. There are more whites in poverty than blacks. Thing is, most everyone has more than enough food to eat. Food is cheap here. Many of the poor are fat. Many Americans are fat.  Most people have a place to live, a car, and air conditioning. Poor have access to decent health care.

 

So it really depends on what you are measuring.

Bad food is cheap, making them fat.

Healthy food is a lot more expensive in the US.

[Sinbius]

10 hours ago, adesigar said:

#15. Germany $53,485 - $346,614 is higher than 

#28. US $68,998 - $696,277 ?

 

 

 

 

Sorry...the list here: Ranked: The Richest Countries by Average vs. Median Wealth

 

US is 28 in the list before Germany that is 30

[Sinbius]

About wealth concentration US is almost like Saudi Arabia: Ranked: Where Wealth Is Most Concentrated

 

Again...if you have different numbers please show them with the source...

[73 Reds]

3 hours ago, Sinbius said:

About wealth concentration US is almost like Saudi Arabia: Ranked: Where Wealth Is Most Concentrated

 

Again...if you have different numbers please show them with the source...

The difference is, in the US the wealthy pay most of the taxes that support all the others.  Why do you ignore the number on the far right?

[Sinbius]

15 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

The difference is, in the US the wealthy pay most of the taxes that support all the others.  Why do you ignore the number on the far right?

 

What number?

[73 Reds]

26 minutes ago, Sinbius said:

 

What number?

LOL, it really was not a difficult question.  But here is an easier one:  How many hands would it take to count the number of women in Saudi Arabia who consider themselves wealthy?

[cubsfan]

7 hours ago, Paarslaars said:

Bad food is cheap, making them fat.

Healthy food is a lot more expensive in the US.

 

I guess you have never shopped at Aldi or Walmart where healthy food is dirt cheap.

 

I never shop at Whole Foods.

[Sinbius]

48 minutes ago, 73 Reds said:

LOL, it really was not a difficult question.  But here is an easier one:  How many hands would it take to count the number of women in Saudi Arabia who consider themselves wealthy?

 

The only numbers on the right that I see in the last link is the Geni index relative to wealth concentration...they show that the concentration of wealth in US is almost the same of what we have in Saudi Arabia...

 

...that's one of the reasons in my previous link data show data how the median wealth in US is less than that of poor countries like Italy or Spain or Portugal...

Edited 5 hours ago by Sinbius