What do I do with my life?

[SharperDingaan]

The message to take from this is that you first need a hedge, your debts paid; & then the balls to do your own thing.

 

Accounting, Audit, Finance are just hedges; temporary jobs until you get back on your feet again. Preferably contract, & using outsourcing as a part of your business model. You are with XYZ coy only because it is more rewarding than what you can currently do on your own. For most folks maybe 2-3 years, & then it is just a part to some other plan.

 

As with anything, hedges have a cost. Time, tuition, & the experience necessary to get the sheepskin; but thereafter that is pretty much it (baring P&I on any school debt). As long as corporates expand/contract, or screw-up, fairly regularly; there will always be a temporary opportunity for you. You might even get some travel out of it as well.

 

Long-term, you really need to own the business that you work in, and you need to work with partners/associates to spread the various business specific risks. With todays corporate structures, & government funding available to start-ups/small business, there is little to lose. Value investing just adds another few arrows to your sheath.

 

Once you know how to value something, & exploit public company seasonal & cyclical changes, you are well on your way. You also become very valuable to the corporates that you are trying to escape, improving the return on your hedge ;)

 

Good luck to you.

 

SD

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DoddDisciple]

Thanks TTT.  Research jobs are hard to come by, and hard to fund.  I'm the lone graduate in my class without a PhD or MD.  Most are MDs now, the PhD's have had a hard time in the job market.

 

I've thought about going back for a MS Finance, PhD Finance, or just working a lucrative job for 10 years and then managing my own funds.  Non-profit doesn't pay much, but I'm debt free (minus the mortgage), and save 500-800/month for investing.  Unless there's a serendipitous event where I get picked up as an analyst I'll probably go the lucrative job route for 10 years to build up investment funds.

 

I'd say the sciences in general are a bad field unfortunately, especially without a PhD in hand (even a Master's isn't that great since typically it's awarded on the path towards a PhD, if at all).

 

I did the majority of a MS Finance at an AACSB accredited/CFA partner school. It was quite literally a joke, especially from the perspective of wanting to learn how to manage money. I was somewhat optimistic going in, and wasn't foolish enough to expect anything all that great, but my god :P

 

Let me just go over a few things that characterized the program. The "capstone" class consisted of doing "presentations" on CFA problems already answered and explained in the text. Like, quite literally, people got up and were dressed in suits to read the answers in the book to us.

 

Another class was solely case-based. The professor lectured three times, and each time, they didn't even lecture the entire class period. The only thing they did was sit in the front row and play with their iPhone the whole time, and tell us when time was up and then ask a few questions on the case.

 

I had 3 other classes with the department chair that consisted of just a single multiple choice test.

 

I could go on. I get it, teaching is a burden for a professor. They hate it. We are mere worms to them distracting them from their "research." Then again, I actually was bored and read some of the professors' publications. I don't really get how any of it extended the frontier of knowledge within the field. Hell, one professor specialized in derivatives, but had never bought a single option in their entire life.

 

So anyway, there's no reason to do a MS Finance unless you have a particular plan in mind, and definitely not doing a PhD in Finance unless the stars align perfectly. Finance academia is actually pretty glutted in that finding a decent-paying job is difficult. The reason being is that finance attracts a lot of people who couldn't hack their original quantitative field (engineering, physics, etc.), but there is overlap in coursework, so they switch over to finance so as to not have wasted all their time.

 

Again, you'll learn nothing, much less if you want to manage your own funds. I learned more reading the majority of Oddball Stocks in class. The professional advice of the professors was to actually find a endowment or pension asset management job since it was "easy" and "impossible to get fired if you get did what everyone else did."

 

 

[DoddDisciple]

The message to take from this is that you first need a hedge, your debts paid: & then the balls to do your own thing.

 

Accounting, Audit, Finance are just hedges; temporary jobs until you get back on your feet again. Preferably contract, & using outsourcing as a part of your business model. You are with XYZ coy only because it is more rewarding than what you can currently do on your own. For most folks maybe 2-3 years, & then it is just a part to some other plan.

 

As with anything, hedges have a cost. Time, tuition, & the experience necessary to get the sheepskin; but thereafter that is pretty much it (baring P&I on any school debt). As long as corporates expand/contract, or screw-up, fairly regularly; there will always be a temporary opportunity for you. You might even get some travel out of it as well.

 

Long-term, you really need to own the business that you work in, and you need to work with partners/associates to spread the various business specific risks. With todays corporate structures, & government funding available to start-ups/small business, there is little to lose. Value investing just adds another few arrows to your sheath.

 

Once you know how to value something, & exploit public company seasonal & cyclical changes, you are well on your way. You also become very valuable to the corporates that you are trying to escape, improving the return on your hedge ;)

 

Good luck to you.

 

SD

 

Good advice. You are expensive meat to your employer. Don't look to them for support. They will fire you to save a few pennies. Return the favor :D

[Guest deepValue]

Unless there's a serendipitous event where I get picked up as an analyst I'll probably go the lucrative job route for 10 years to build up investment funds.

 

How many funds have you contacted about a job so far? Go on FactSet, CapIQ, or find some other way to generate a list of 200-300 funds in your area (or in a city you'd be happy to move to). Then cold call or send a letter and stock pitch to each of them. It's really not that hard to get an analyst job if you really look for one.

 

 

[WolfOfMainStreet]

I'll toss this out there too. The average accounting/finance job that a BA/BS in either subject could get are now being outsourced. There really isn't much reason to pay a domestic worker more for a task that pretty much at it's core is data entry and analysis. Sure, auditors and the like still have to physically go to the engagement sites, but I wouldn't be surprised if they keep requiring more education, certifications, etc. for people to keep the same job domestically. They've pretty much done that with the 150 hour requirement when before, well, just take a look at this:

 

http://captaincapitalism.blogspot.com/2013/09/10-years-of-unnecessary-hoop-jumping.html

 

TL, DR is MNCPA board chair didn't even have a college degree, but was able to pass the CPA when it was arguably harder to do so. Food for thought.

 

Wow awesome thanks for the link. Definitely food for thought. A lot of stuff in your first post makes sense to me. Thankfully I am getting this degree on the cheap. Looking at around 40k in total debt if I pay nothing until I'm done with my master's. I only have to start paying 6 months after I'm out and in the meantime the interest does not compound on itself, it only accrues on the principal. I'm probably going to pick up a few internships along the way and bring that number down. As for Oddball Stocks, it is my favorite stock blog. I feel like I learn more in one post than a semester's worth of class. In between studying I'll usually read a post. Keeps me sane during long hours of cramming. Appreciate all the feedback guys  :)

[DoddDisciple]

Wow awesome thanks for the link. Definitely food for thought. A lot of stuff in your first post makes sense to me. Thankfully I am getting this degree on the cheap. Looking at around 40k in total debt if I pay nothing until I'm done with my master's. I only have to start paying 6 months after I'm out and in the meantime the interest does not compound on itself, it only accrues on the principal. I'm probably going to pick up a few internships along the way and bring that number down. As for Oddball Stocks, it is my favorite stock blog. I feel like I learn more in one post than a semester's worth of class. In between studying I'll usually read a post. Keeps me sane during long hours of cramming. Appreciate all the feedback guys  :)

 

No problem. Let's me rant a little anyway :P The author at the same link also has a video/post sort of in line with this I think too:

 

 

Again, not trying to be a downer or anything, but eventually, you realize the system doesn't work the way people say that it does.

 

Irregardless, credentialism creep is a big problem. Just to illustrate, I've came across several people who have a MBA, MS Accounting, CPA, CMA, CIA, CFE, CFM, etc. as their background. Like it was literally their name and then a spillage of like 10 alphabet soup licenses/certifications after their name. It just gets crazy to a certain point and there's no way one can truly defend such insanity.

[LC]

SD I believe wrote something the last time a topic of this nature came up, and I am paraphrasing here:

 

"If you're good enough to be a top research analyst then you're good enough to start and run a business, and contribute directly and meaningfully to society".

[oddballstocks]

I think it's a shame that people feel like they need to know where they're headed in life 10-15 years in advance.  When I look back at my life I haven't followed any traditional paths, yet the things I've taken the time to learn have benefitted me in many ways.

 

I will second or third whoever else posted that you shouldn't study something you don't care about.  Study something you enjoy.  I would also recommend studying something that helps you learn how to think.  I have a degree in Systems Analysis (hybrid math & computer science) with a minor in Sociology.

 

If I step back and think about college I can pull out a few lessons.  The first is that you don't need to do as much work as assigned.  Find the shortcuts and use them.  Maybe this is a bad lesson, but I've learned that in everything in life there is the long way and the short way.  Take the shortest way that doesn't jeopardize quality.  With my new-found time I tinkered with computers on my own, I taught myself a lot of things that I built my career on.  I also hung out with as many people as possible.  I learned how to work with different people, but also how to connect/network etc.  But the most important lesson was learning how to think.  My sociology classes were great for this, they challenged how I thought about things.

 

Study what you enjoy, do well, meet other people and build yourself the ideal job.  It won't happen right away, but it'll happen sooner rather than later.

 

SD is correct, you need to figure out a way to work for yourself as well.  I've realized I will never get to where I want to go on any conventional route.  I started my own business as a way to get to my goals too.  No boss is ever going to pull you aside and tell you to work for yourself, or that combining a hobby interest with something else would make you invaluable.  They just want you to do your job.  You, and only you know how to take your best traits and package them in the best way. 

 

My last word of advice, this is a lifelong journey.  You're not going to know when you graduate, or in five years, or 10 years.  Everything takes longer that you'd ever expect.  Yet when the time comes it happens quickly, so be prepared.

 

I appreciate the compliments on the blog, although I doubt I teach more than a college class.  I have never taken a finance class in my life.  Maybe that's why I march to my own drum, I was never taught what is 'right' or 'wrong' with finance.  I read a lot of value investing and accounting books and though through things on my own.  So all is not lost.

[DoddDisciple]

I appreciate the compliments on the blog, although I doubt I teach more than a college class.  I have never taken a finance class in my life.  Maybe that's why I march to my own drum, I was never taught what is 'right' or 'wrong' with finance.  I read a lot of value investing and accounting books and though through things on my own.  So all is not lost.

 

While I appreciate the humility, I have to say that you honestly do teach more than any finance class :) As a matter of fact, I would have no problem using some of your writeups as case studies to explain not only finance concepts, but business in general. Of course, that wouldn't fly at all since you don't have PhD at the end of your name and actually have real-world experience and sense ;)

 

At times I'd like to say that my trend of having poor business professors is just a string of bad luck, but as I read online and talk with people, I have a feeling I'm giving most of them too much of the benefit of the doubt unfortunately.

 

Anyway, listen to Nate; he speaks with wisdom. The whole needing to know "where they're headed for 10-15 years in advance" is especially pronounced in business students, and it's sad to be honest since I don't really think people recognize the 20-30 years in between graduating and becoming CEO.

 

Also, I'd really recommend just not studying business at all at the undergraduate level, especially if you're going to move onto a Master's program. Maybe pick up the accounting classes needed for the CPA, but that's it. One minor regret I have is graduating early and just going through the motions in a lot of business classes I didn't care about versus picking up a minor or major in Philosophy.

 

The fact of the matter is that, at it's core, business education is almost an oxymoron. Most of marketing and management consist of vocabulary obfuscating very simple concepts. Finance removes a connection between assets and the "math" used to value those assets. Accounting is just memorization.

 

Be different. You are the only person who knows what's best for you.

[eclecticvalue]

Personally I would go with a degree in accounting since the subject matter will help you more with value investing. With accounting there are many paths that are open to you. You can go to the Big 4, corporate finance, or financial services. I think corporate finance is underrated and if you do work in corporate finance at least you can trade your account with no problems. Unlike in the investment management/financial services industry where there is an employee trading policy.

 

 

[tiddman]

My $0.02.

 

Your degree and school matter most for your first position out of school, and after that mean less and less.  You'll be hired for your 2nd and subsequent jobs based on recent experience, not your degree or school.

 

Make career decisions that you expect to live with for 1-3 years.  Nobody can foresee their future any further than that.  In your head think of career decisions as "kinda temporary", try not to get too attached to a job and be willing to change course quickly.  People get stuck in jobs because they're afraid to change and instead of getting 10 years of experience, they get the same year of experience 10 times.

 

Always be on the job market and talk to people about what they do and if they like it.  It is kind of like dating, you need to leave yourself open to it but don't need to be in a hurry, and good opportunities will come along.

 

You are trying to make a decision now without a whole lot of information.  After a few months on your first job you'll know 10,000% more than you do now and will be better able to make good decisions.  After you change jobs a couple of times you'll be in even better shape.  That could be 3 years from now or 20 years, but obviously making it 3 years gives you more options.

 

Good luck.  Accounting is a great field for getting involved in business and can lead to virtually anything.