moore_capital54 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Highly Recommended https://grilevents.webex.com/cmp0306ld/webcomponents/widget/detect.do?siteurl=grilevents&LID=1&RID=2&TID=4&rnd=4211207783&DT=-240&DL=en-GB&isDetected=true&backUrl=%2Fmw0306ld%2Fmywebex%2Fdefault.do%3Fsiteurl%3Dgrilevents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Awesome find, Rick is one of my favorite value investors and think he is relatively unknown since his expertise is in resources but his track record, knowledge and wit put him right up there with Buffett in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerbaron Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 At around 47 minutes he talks about Merchant Banking companies investing in resources... I guess he's referring to Altius. BeerBaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moore_capital54 Posted September 3, 2011 Author Share Posted September 3, 2011 Altius, Aberdeen, Primary Capital, Natural Resource Holdings, Sprott Resource Corp many of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurjot Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 thanks for posting moore_capital. in his talk about energy he didn't much talk about geothermal companies. was wondering if you have any info on that. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurjot Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 sorry moore capital i found the answer to my question. your opinion of this sector is appreciated.(ram power and nevada geothermal) thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baoxiaodao Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I have high respect for this guy. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biaggio Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Altius, Aberdeen, Primary Capital, Natural Resource Holdings, Sprott Resource Corp many of them. Thanks for posting interview. What's your opinion on SII? I looked at it a couple years ago but missed the boat. With SII you would have managers like Rick Rule, and Eric Sprott (who owns most of the shares I believe) on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Altius, Aberdeen, Primary Capital, Natural Resource Holdings, Sprott Resource Corp many of them. Thanks for posting interview. What's your opinion on SII? I looked at it a couple years ago but missed the boat. With SII you would have managers like Rick Rule, and Eric Sprott (who owns most of the shares I believe) on the team. I've been reading up on them a bit. Not yet sure what I think, but I'm also curious to know other people's opinions (Dazel, are you reading this?). Edit: Actually, I was looking at SCP. Anyone can shed some light on the corporate structure of Sprott? SII and SCP are totally separate, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biaggio Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 SCP is managed by a subdivision of SII. SII charges 2% of assets plus 20% of profits over a hurdle rate (based on long term interest rate of some sort-I forget exactly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moore_capital54 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 The only issue I have with SCP is their lack of exposure to gold, besides their bullion stake. Also I forgot to mention Pinetree capital in that list. Nobody can disregard that Pinetree provides incredible leverage to the junior market, its currently trading below NAV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moore_capital54 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Also need to mention Cardero Resources, which has kind of by accident become a resource holding co as well. Cardero latest 10Q is that not the sweetest balance sheet you have seen? $122mm in assets vs $800k in liabilities: http://www.cardero.com/s/financials.asp Checkout all the liquid stock positions, IE: ITH - which provides great leverage to gold. Cardero is trading roughly at the value of their liquid investment portfolio giving you their assets for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moore_capital54 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 sorry moore capital i found the answer to my question. your opinion of this sector is appreciated.(ram power and nevada geothermal) thanks Gurjot, I am not as bullish as Rule on geothermal. He has lost a ton of money on RAM and has gotten a lot of people into it. The fundamentals of geothermal are analogous to Solar in my humble opinion. I would rather buy some of these solar co's at a fraction of tangible book as a hedge for higher energy costs. Or out of the money options on Nat Gas such as MGM Energy (MGX CN). I believe Rule's favourite gold plays are Lydian and Atac. We own a nice chunk of Lydian and have been buying more even last week. There is no doubt they have an incredible mine there. Atac is very expensive and lacks the ounces at this point to convert me into a believer. Everyone is so excited that they found Carlin style mineralization but I would much rather own Lydian or even Carpathian than Atac here. One more thing, I am going to make a prediction here that I think Dundee Precious Metals will make a run for Lydian. It is right up their alley and Jon Goodman has unlimited capital from daddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurjot Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 thanks moore capital. i did buy rpg and ngp at much higher prices and have the ability to hold for couple of years to see what happens. i own lydian also . i sold mirasol few months ago to buy lydian. with altius i been waiting for a long time for them to do something with all the cash they have . they did hire paul van eeden to manage some of the cash but its not much. i am hoping they will put it to work intelligently. you have any info on it. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biaggio Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I briefly looked at Pinetree Capital (PNP) Selling at <50% of NAV http://www.pinetreecapital.com/_resources/financials/fs_pnp11Q1.pdf CEO has been buying shares http://www.canadianinsider.com/coReport/allTransactions.php?ticker=pnp and apparently has been buying all year long. I like their investment themes. http://www.pinetreecapital.com/_resources/presentation/Pinetree-Q2-2011-final.pdf All their NAV is in many junior resource companies. Rick Rule indicated that 90% of junior resource companies have a net present value of zero. For those who invest in junior canadian resources, how can you reconcile this? Market seems to be expressing this disbelief. Management taking the opposite view, as they are puyting their own money in. Value of common cut in half since the spring http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/gallery.html?PNP.TO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Are many juniors worth zero because they run out of cash before getting the minerals out of the ground or because they don't have the minerals they think they have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moore_capital54 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Biaggio Rick rule is talking about all the exploration co's out there which account for 90% of the market but in terms of market cap account for less than 10%. Read my post about the industry from a few weeks ago, in I categorize the industry into 3 groups of companies. Relating to PineTree it definitely seems cheap but I don't think the quality of companies he holds are the kind I like, I see PineTree as more of a leveraged option on the exploration side of the business, with good diversification. The way we see it is either you are investing in a proven deposit that has been defined based on diamond-drilling, or you are investing in an ore body that has already been intersected where you know the assay grades, length of intersection and locations on a map, but has yet to be computed into an initial resource estimate. Investing before is a crap shoot Roy Sebag does a good job of explaining this in his annual letter here: http://www.nrh.co.il/i/pdf/NRH_2010_Annual_Letter.pdf As does Bill Martin here: https://www.americancentury.com/pdf/Gold_Investing_Core_Explore_Approach_Retail.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moore_capital54 Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Are many juniors worth zero because they run out of cash before getting the minerals out of the ground or because they don't have the minerals they think they have? No Scorpion they are worth zero because they have not reached the stage of resource definition. 90% of the market are exploration companies with greenfield projects. Again, Natural Resource Holdings has done some good research here cataloguing the ones with actual defined deposits over 1mm ounces: http://www.nrh.co.il/i/pdf/NRH_Research_OneMillionOunceGoldDepositsMay2011.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biaggio Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Moore_capital, thanks for the references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I can't find Natural Resource Holdings filings on Magna (http://www.magna.isa.gov.il/Default.aspx?lang=en) anybody know why? Looks like an interesting investment and I want to buy in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moore_capital54 Posted September 5, 2011 Author Share Posted September 5, 2011 Scorpion, a very interesting company. It's still small but we own it. I suggest you read about the Owner/Manager as well, former Value Fund Manager who got into natural resources 3 years ago, and decided to focus on that full-time. He personally owns 60% of the shares and has been increasing his stake on the open market. The current market their listed on does not understand the business, but they have announced a listing on the NYSE AMEX. We are looking forward to that as a major re-rating event. The financials are too difficult for us to find on that site, since its in hebrew a language I do not speak. But I have attached the Bloomberg snapshot of the financials as it parses it in english. This is a low market cap company so I don't want to say too much but I will say this, with what I have seen thus far, I am VERY impressed. Roy has purchased ounces in the ground at absolutely amazing valuations. We own about 4% of the company. At the current valuation of $11mm, there is very little relevance between the market cap and the intrinsic value in my opinion. That being said you are buying shares in an Israeli listed company, which we personally have viewed as a big pain in the butt. 00150675.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Only thing I'd add is it appears there are 16.5 million fully diluted shares for a total market cap of $55 million Israeli shekels which translates to 15 million US dollars, so it seems to trade around book value based on the bloomberg equity of $16 million USD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moore_capital54 Posted September 5, 2011 Author Share Posted September 5, 2011 Scorpion, that is incorrect. The 16.5mm fully diluted share count assumes the exercise of 5.0mm warrants outstanding at levels that are substantially higher (5,10,15,20) so under that scenario NRH would have an additional $17mm in cash. There are currently 9.38mm shares outstanding. And also with resource companies the way to compute intrinsic value is not based on the balance sheet where assets are carried at cost, rather some type of a DCF on their proven resource wealth. In this case you have to ask yourself what are comparable companies being valued at per tonne of iron ore or ounce of gold in the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Altius, Aberdeen, Primary Capital, Natural Resource Holdings, Sprott Resource Corp many of them. [...]Also need to mention Cardero Resources, which has kind of by accident become a resource holding co as well. Hi Moore, Curious to know which of those is/are your favorites and why? I'm a big fan of Altius, and I'm trying to widen my circle of competence in that sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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