4 hour body

[jb85]

I would say the idea that the way to lose weight is to burn more calories than one takes in is equivalent to the efficient market hypothesis in investing. The body is a complex system with various feedback loops and trying to simplify the formula using the first law of thermodynamics is quite misleading (as Taubes describes at length in Ch. 17 of Good Calories, Bad Calories).

 

 

 

So my main thing with the calories in vs calories out is that for most people, their main concern is WEIGHT LOSS.  I really doubt most people, if they had 13% body fat would really care if they were getting enough potassium, or this or that vitamin etc.  Maybe some would, but for most, they just want to look good.

 

I haven't read Taubes, and I'm sure he has a lot of valid ideas.  I just think people worry about the wrong things with weight loss.  If you really want to go all out, then sure, worry about all the vitamins etc, but for me if my weight is good, then a lot of other things fall into place.  I've seen a lot of people worry about fat content, vitamins etc. eat great salads, no candy etc, yet they eat 4000 calories a day and wonder why they gain weight.  I eat a bunch of junk food, etc. but the one thing i do is to eat only 2100 calories a day.  I may have some other issues from eating all the junk food, but its still than being 300 pounds and eating salads all day

[rkbabang]

I do have some questions:

What fruits are ok, which are not?  bananas, oranges?

 

I've been sticking to berries.  I'll eat blueberries, raspberries, blackberries, and even a limited amount of strawberries.  I don't eat fruit everyday though, maybe 3-4 times per week.  I tried a half of a banana one day, and while I didn't gain any weight, my blood sugar was high the next morning. I like to whip up heavy cream with some ground vanilla bean powder and put some berries on it. Makes a good, filling snack.  If you need it sweeter, put a little stevia in it.  Also try some unsweetened raw cacao powder instead of the vanilla. Or some raw cacao nibs sprinkled on top. I also just bought an ice cream maker attachment for my KichenAid mixer and I'm going to be experimenting with making low carb ice cream using heavy cream and sweetened with a little stevia extract.  

 

 

What about tea and coffee?  How much coffee is ok?   Should tea always be green tea?

 

I don't limit my consumption of coffee or tea, but I don't drink a ton of it either.  I tend to have a cup or two of coffee per day and maybe a cup or two of tea (either green or oolong).  I drink both my coffee and tea without adding anything to it. (no milk/cream or sugar).  If you need cream try heavy cream, if you need it sweet try stevia.  I drink a lot of water with a small wedge of a lime or lemon in it.

 

I presume honey is NOT ok.

 

Honey is a sugar, so no.

 

Any danger of "overdoing it" (not getting ENOUGH glucose?)

 

In a normal person (without type I diabetes) no, I don't think so.   Your body will make glucose.  I have completely eliminated sugars of all types from my diet and my fasting glucose level (measured with a home glucose blood tester) has never been bellow 75mg/dL.

If your glucose is going too low there is something wrong and you should see a doctor ASAP and probably stop the diet until you do.

 

Thank you.  BTW, I have lost 12 lbs in 3 weeks - no sugar, low carbs.

 

congrats :)

 

[Ross812]

I'm not convinced all the diet plans are necessary to lose weight. I believe the reason they work is they make the dieter aware of what they are actually eating. Dieting forces calorie counting and avoiding foods that are easy to eat to excess like foods high in carbohydrates.

 

Calories are king; here is the twinkie diet:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html

 

The most healthy way to lose weight is to begin an active lifestyle. Exercise 5 days a week, get 7-9 hours of sleep, avoid fried foods, cut down on the sweets, and drink only water. Dieting can take the weight off, but a change in lifestyle will keep it off. Many are posting about the weight they have lost from a change in diet and that is wonderful, but there is a difference between being light and being healthy.

 

Exercise is an investment in yourself. It is going to pay dividends your entire life, carries little risk, and extends your time horizon...            

[jberkshire01]

For the best fruits, see this: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/best-and-worst-fruits/

 

For a good discussion on the Twinkie diet, see this: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/11/twinkie-diet-for-fat-loss.html

 

One more point from Taubes that I really enjoyed was the Munger-like inversion he uses when he says that someone doesn't get fat because he eats too much, he eats too much because he is fat. The main point being that by eating the wrong things, one can get fat, which then makes their body need to eat more to maintain the same level of activity, etc. The studies with the squirrels being fed the same foods but being given different amounts of calories was especially interesting. When it came time for hibernation, all the squirrels got just as fat, even though some were being nearly starved. The ones being fed less just became far less active than the others. The "get fat because it is time to hibernate" genes made the squirrels get fat, even if they weren't fed that much.

 

It should also be noted that genes do play a role. Some people need to eat nearly no carbs to avoid gaining weight while others (i.e. Warren Buffett) can eat a lot and stay in good health. Muscle composition also makes it easier (or signals) for your body to burn fat instead of storing it in your fat cells.

[rkbabang]

For the best fruits, see this: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/best-and-worst-fruits/

 

For a good discussion on the Twinkie diet, see this: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/11/twinkie-diet-for-fat-loss.html

 

One more point from Taubes that I really enjoyed was the Munger-like inversion he uses when he says that someone doesn't get fat because he eats too much, he eats too much because he is fat. The main point being that by eating the wrong things, one can get fat, which then makes their body need to eat more to maintain the same level of activity, etc. The studies with the squirrels being fed the same foods but being given different amounts of calories was especially interesting. When it came time for hibernation, all the squirrels got just as fat, even though some were being nearly starved. The ones being fed less just became far less active than the others. The "get fat because it is time to hibernate" genes made the squirrels get fat, even if they weren't fed that much.

 

It should also be noted that genes do play a role. Some people need to eat nearly no carbs to avoid gaining weight while others (i.e. Warren Buffett) can eat a lot and stay in good health. Muscle composition also makes it easier (or signals) for your body to burn fat instead of storing it in your fat cells.

 

The Fruit link is an excellent summary. Thanks.  

The other thing to remember is that for those of us that have metabolic syndrome and/or diabetes we have messed up our metabolism over a number of years (or decades) so it isn't going to go back to normal over night.  For example, as I mentioned in my last post, one half of one banana was enough to spike my fasting blood sugar the next morning.  Which shows that I am still highly insulin resistant. I would expect this to improve as time goes on.  In a year or two I hope I can eat a banana on occasion without the negative consequences.    Someone who's genes or metabolism are different from mine may be able to eat more fruit than I am right away.

 

It is all about learning what works for you.

 

--Eric

 

[Ross812]

I was not promoting a twinkie diet at all. I am just stating that it is possible to lose weight by calorie reduction regardless of the food that is eaten. The blog you directed to states two groups of mice that ate "industrial" high caloric food gained weight regardless of whether they were on a calorie restricted industiral diet or an unrestricted industrial diet. The mice that were on the unrestricted diet were less active and gained the same amount of weight as the mice who were more active and ate more industiral food. Their internal weight homeostasis had been increased due to the kinds of food they ate.

 

I agree eating poorly and weight problems go hand and hand. I am stating that a commercial diet plan is not necessary to lose weight. It can be done with will power and twinkies. Yes, your internal weight homeostasis will not change and it will be easy to put the wieght back on when you stop (which happens with many of these diets, ex. Atkins). The way to bring down your internal homeostasis is to exercise and there is no shortcut around that. If you exercise regularly you will notice that you actually crave foods that are good for you; you desire good foods because you feel terrible if you eat a cheeseburger then work out. The diet choices are easy for you because you eat foods that make you feel good.

 

Simply eating healthfuly is not enough. Maintaining a healthy weight and being physicaly fit are two different things.

[EdWatchesBoxing]

I've noticed that I end up feeling extremely sick after eating too much fried food. I almost never eat it anymore. I remember eating KFC for dinner  few years ago. I ended suffering the next day.

[coc]

I'd like to add a few things...just some points on things that have been said and so forth. Let me say up front I don't mean to offend anyone, everyone has opinions, and the facts have definitely not been settled on when it comes to nutrition and health.

 

1. Anecdotes have no place in good discussion here. I know, I know, your Uncle John lost weight eating nothing but etc. etc. But the most important factor in how much body fat you will store, how insulin resistant you are, etc., is individual variation in genes. We all know people who eat horribly and stay thin and people who eat wonderfully and can't lose weight. Looking at what works in large numbers of people is far more important. By all means, I am very proud of anyone who manages to get healthy, and please tell us your stories. But be careful mixing anecdotes with empiricism.

 

2. As someone mentioned above, one of Taubes' great points was to ask if maybe we get fat not because we eat too much, but eating too much is a symptom of getting fat. If your body has a process that is causing it to store excess fat in cells, the rest of your body is likely being deprived of the energy it needs to function. Thus, you eat more to compensate. To the onlooker, it looks like being a pig is causing you to get fat. In the Taubesian view of the world, our resistance to insulin (usually caused by diet, occasionally genetic) is this "x-factor". We're just blowing the causation.

 

3. I'm not dumb enough to argue that one can't lose weight temporarily by becoming a marathon runner or eating 500 calories a day. Of course. But these are not workable diet solutions to keep people thin over time. Over and over weight-loss studies (and meta-studies) prove that starvation diets don't have any long term effect on their participants...and yet we keep doing them. Again, viewing overeating as a symptom rather than a problem of willpower is the mental trick needed to get over this hump. We all know the central role hormones play in fat storage and distribution (women and men store fat very differently for example, due to hormones) and yet when it comes to fat loss, we decide it's not important...willpower is!

 

4. Regarding vitamins and minerals. There seems to be considerable evidence that we'd get all the vitamins we need in the meat we eat, but it is this insulin-caused Syndrome that keeps us from absorbing or using most of it. The Western solution has been to add more vitamins (the multi-vitamin supplement is born), when the real solution may be dropping most of the carbs.

 

5. I will concede that there is still argument about different types of carbohydrate maybe being far worse than others. High levels of fructose may be the root evil here (present in HFCS, sugar, etc.), but it's not decided yet. I lean towards believing wheat based products are also bad, given their recent development in human evolution and a lot of other dietary evidence.  Taubes presents some interesting case studies about indigenous popluations going from thin to not-so-thin immediately after introducing wheat flour into the population.

 

6. On exercise. I love to exercise and I would recommend that everyone does so in whatever form the enjoy most. It's a healthy habit. But I do not think it is the road to weight loss, contrary to popular belief. We all accept the notion that we "work up an appetite" when we work hard, no? So why does it make sense to work ourselves into a state of hunger while we're trying to lose weight? Again, the body will do its darnedest to replace that lost energy...you'll either eat more or be hungrier, neither of which are conducive to losing weight the traditional way (cutting calories.)

 

In the end, what we need to be most concerned with is what works in the real world. Not what should work or what we believe works, but what does work.  I don't believe starving ourselves thin works...it's not sustainable. If we're going to talk about good diet needing to be a lifestyle...I don't see how starvation is a viable lifestyle option, and it seems the 99% of people who are failing on starvation diets agree.

 

And one doesn't necessarily need to cut the carbs to zero to make it work. It will probably accelerate the process of reducing your insulin resistance, but even cutting out the most glycemic ones at first is a good idea - the sugars, juices, chips, pretzels, etc. Doing that and really moderating the rest of your carb intake (in favor of fat and protein) will probably do most people a favor.

 

[Liberty]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html

[Guest]

I'm sure you guys will love this.

 

"Study: Cheeseburger may help heart"

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110413/NEWS01/104140313/Study-Cheeseburger-may-help-heart?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

 

  ;D

[twacowfca]

Here's what works for those who have been very overweight and manage to lose their extra weight and keep it off.  This isn't theory; it's the conclusion of a respected professor who studied the small subset of people who have lost a great amount of weight and kept it off for many years.  

 

None are gung ho athletes, but all get a lot of moderate exercise, the equivalent of walking an average of six miles per day.

 

They monitor their weight by weighing frequently.  At the first sign of weight creeping back up, they adjust the portions they eat downward.

 

They nibble a lot, frequently eating low calorie density snacks.  At mealtimes, they aren't starved and they eat small portions.

 

The foods they eat most are veggies, including resistant starches and dietary fiber and some whole fruits.  A bean salad would be a good example.  Most are not vegetarians, but they don't generally eat a lot of meat.  Most consume low fat dairy. They go easy or avoid fatty foods and sugary foods.  They don't use artificial sweeteners.

 

If they don't do these things regularly, their weight will creep back up.  But, remember these were hard cases, people who had a strong tendency to pack on lots of weight and great difficulty in losing weight and keeping it off.  :)

[nodnub]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html

 

thanks Liberty,

I found that very interesting.

[Liberty]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html

 

thanks Liberty,

I found that very interesting.

 

If you liked it, make sure to watch the video lecture that is referred to in the article, and if you want even more, read 'Good Calories, Bad Calories' by Gary Taubes, the author of that piece.

 

Cheers!

[PLynchJr]

I actually read Taubes based on the thread here a few months ago so thanks!  The book made perfect sense to me....really struck a cord.  I don't have the energy to argue with people who still believe the conventional wisdom...I just know low carb works and I've never felt better.  I've lost 30 pounds in 2 months.  Down from 225 to 195.  No exercise at all (not against it just very busy with newborn) and I never go hungry.  I used to get heartburn all the time.  Took Zantac daily.  Completely gone now.  No more stomach issues.  No longer gassy.  Just feel great.  Blood pressure is way down.  Haven't done blood work yet but I have no doubt it's improved.

[EdWatchesBoxing]

Here is the story of a guy eating only potatoes for two months and losing weight.

 

After 60 days of potatoes, Voigt, 45, will have come out of it trimmer (he's 6-foot-1 and has gone from 197 to 180 pounds), and with considerably lower cholesterol and blood-sugar levels (all documented on 20potatoesaday.com and on a Facebook page).

 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013545173_potatoguy29m.html

 

 

Interesting. I love eating potatoes. I like baking fries at home.

[Rabbitisrich]

Taubes published a new NY Times article:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

 

When Glinsmann and his F.D.A. co-authors decided no conclusive evidence demonstrated harm at the levels of sugar then being consumed, they estimated those levels at 40 pounds per person per year beyond what we might get naturally in fruits and vegetables — 40 pounds per person per year of “added sugars” as nutritionists now call them. This is 200 calories per day of sugar, which is less than the amount in a can and a half of Coca-Cola or two cups of apple juice. If that’s indeed all we consume, most nutritionists today would be delighted, including Lustig.

 

But 40 pounds per year happened to be 35 pounds less than what Department of Agriculture analysts said we were consuming at the time — 75 pounds per person per year — and the U.S.D.A. estimates are typically considered to be the most reliable.

[meiroy]

 

One day, a couple of years ago I realized I'm fat, it kinda crept up on me slowly but surely, without me noticing. After realizing this I slowly lost weight reaching a point where one might say I'm somewhat thin, or "just right".  It did not involve any diet or exercising more than once or twice a week. What did the trick was the understanding (or making myself believe this) that some food should not be included in the category of food.  What you eat is far more important than the time you exercise, unless you're running 30 miles a day. 

 

For example, a chocolate muffin, it sure tastes good but if you break it down to ingredients, you'd get a small pile of sugar and a small pile of fat. Unless you'd be willing to scoop these up with a teaspoon and insert into your mouth you should not eat the muffin as well.  I'm not counting calories or anything just trying to have a general idea of what I'm eating. Another example is french fries, this stuff is like an "oil sponge", would you drink this oil directly? So this food is no longer in the "food category", together with all the sweetened drinks and snacks which do not have any real dietary values other than tasting good for containing fat/salt/sugar/made up stuff.  I just never touch it.  A child's body might handle this and remain thin, but as an adult it's just something we have to give up. There's no other option really.  If you stop cold turkey eating this non-food foods, you might feel ill or unwell for awhile while your body gets used to it, but after a couple of weeks or a month you'd feel much better and with less craving.  Hope this helps.

 

 

 

[rkbabang]

The Paleo Solution Podcast interview with Gary Taubes