Mario Lemieux becoming a disgrace

[Guest Bronco]

Maybe the best player ever in his prime, he should now leave the game of hockey.

 

As enjoyable a sport hockey is to watch, it is shameful to have one of the greatest ever become a whiney corporate clown.

 

Unless I am watching games differently than everyone else, some of the biggest cheap shot artists play for Pittsburgh.  Their star player, Cindy Crosby, has been caught on tape punching a guy in the balls from behind. 

 

But it gets much worse.  Matt Cooke?  For real Mario.  Before you open your mouth, maybe you should get rid of this joker.  Biggest disgrace in the league.  And he is on your team. 

 

So don't whine about the Islanders.  Especially when only your player jumped the bench and double teamed one man.  Time to go buddy.

 

Position - long Flyers, short donkey punches, whiney GM's, and any Penguins player for that matter.

[zarley]

I agree with Mario that what the Islanders did friday was disgraceful.  But, I disagree that the NHL didn't do enough to penalize them.  Plus, it was a Penguin that left his bench -- defensible in context, but obviously begging for a suspension. 

 

Mario's always been sensitive to incidents of thuggery in the NHL.  I think his wrist still pains him from a thousand cheap-shot slashes during the 90s.

[Guest Bronco]

When your star player has double teamed a guy and punched him in the balls, you should shut your mouth and never speak again.  Never.

 

12/18/2008 Cindy "dunkey punch" Crosby.

 

Not sure how jumping the bench is defensible?  I guess maybe when you want to double team another player - seems like a trend for these whiners.

[zarley]

When your star player has double teamed a guy and punched him in the balls, you should shut your mouth and never speak again.  Never.

 

12/18/2008 Cindy "dunkey punch" Crosby.

 

Not sure how jumping the bench is defensible?  I guess maybe when you want to double team another player - seems like a trend for these whiners.

 

Believe me, I hate Cindy Crosby as much as anyone and I've seen plenty of youtubes showing his worst moments, so I don't disagree with you on that score. 

 

A third liner leaving the bench to defend his goalie is, IMO, defensible (not what you want to happen, but I can understand it).  But, he better do it with full knowledge that he's gonna get suspended and fined.  I think back to Steve Yzerman getting a 3rd man in penalty and a game misconduct jumping into a "fight" to defend a young Sergei Fedorov.  Sometimes you need to get your team mates back, even if it means a penalty or suspension.

[Guest Bronco]

I don't want to split hairs with you b/c we are on the same page,

 

1) but the goalie left his crease to challenge the nieve minor league player (not the other way around) and

2) the goalie just shattered another players face a week before, indicating that protection may not be needed.

 

 

[Parsad]

Hey, you guys watch your mouth about Sid the Kid!  No one has done more in the NHL in less time since Gretzky and Lemieux.  The guy is a winner, has won everything already, and will win a whole lot more with his work ethic and humility.  If he didn't receive the headshot in mid-ice during the Winter Classic, he'd be 20 points or more ahead of Stamkos, as well as the Sedins who are my guys. 

 

I don't think Lemieux was talking only about the Islander players...he's talking about his own guys as well.  It was a freakshow!  There should have been more suspensions.  And yes, I agree that no one is going to support Lemieux when the biggest cheap shot artist (Matt Cooke) is on his payroll.  But Bettman is an idiot, who caters to the 13 East Coast governnors that get everything they want.  He'll let a team drown in a city just to prove a point, while underserved cities that could support a profitable team get ignored.  Cheers!   

[zarley]

I don't want to split hairs with you b/c we are on the same page,

 

1) but the goalie left his crease to challenge the nieve minor league player (not the other way around) and

2) the goalie just shattered another players face a week before, indicating that protection may not be needed.

 

 

#1 is a good point.  The goalie came out.  It seemed more like they were just yapping, but leaving his crease is a no no.

#2 goalie on goalie crimes don't count.  As Buffett says, a horse that can count to three is an amazing horse, not an amazing mathematician.  A goalie who beats up a goalie is a tough goalie, not a tough-guy.  ;D

[zarley]

If he didn't receive the headshot in mid-ice during the Winter Classic . . . 

 

Is that the one where he got hurt running into a guy because he wasn't watching where he was going?  Framing that as a headshot is not quite accurate, IMO.  If you watch the CBC feed of it, it's clear he just didn't see the guy, and both announcers agree it was an unfortunate accident, and not something malicious from the opposing player.

 

Crosby is a tremendous hockey player.  He is also a giant douche and crybaby.  I don't like him, but I do hope he gets and stays healthy.  The NHL is in desperate need of stars and he is the best in the league right now.

[Guest Bronco]

Crosby is a great player and a Douche like you said.  I thought Ovy at one point was the best player but clear it is Cindy.

 

But he is a poor rep for the game with countless diving and donkey punches. 

 

I remember the hit you are referring to in the Winter Classic - neither player saw the other and there was zero intent there. 

 

If Crosby was smart he would sit the year out b/c a) seen this movie before with Lindros, Primeau, Gagne...you need time if / when you can recover and b) we're winning the cup anyway.

 

Still don't agree on the goalie thing - I remember someone asked who was the toughest Ottawa player to fight and at that time it was Ray Emory.  Clearly Pittsburgh's backup goalie can fight and if you leave the crease, you leave the crease.  BTW - isn't that a penalty?

 

A couple hits by the Islanders were cheap shots, but Mario has no ammunition with Matt Cooke, double teaming, and donkey punches in his team's recent history.

[Partner24]

Enough is enough! I understand that hockey is not ballet, but very reprehensive shots should be penalized far more than that. Brain concussion or other serious injuries aren't needed to envoy a great hockey game!

[Parsad]

Yeah, he turned, but the player hit him in the head with his shoulder when he was vulnerable.  I believe in big hockey hits, but not when the puck is nowhere near the player, and not when they are vulnerable.  

 

You throw a big open ice hit when the guy is trying to skate through the other team...fine.  You hit shoulder to shoulder on the boards...fine.  But hits when the player is facing the glass, rushing to tag the icing, away from the play...nope!  Look at the hit by Getzlaf on Hamhuis last week, and Hamhuis was completely knocked out.  I don't think that was a bad hit...it was more of an accident as Hamhuis turned...and I'm a Vancouver fan.  But cheapshots to the head, especially on the star players...it's bad for the game!

 

And yes, guys like Cooke have to go, or get rid of the instigator penalty so players can patrol and control the cheap shot artists.  I think guys like Cooke, Pronger, etc...they should have to fight after a dirty hit.  Cheers!  

[Guest Bronco]

If the hit on Crosby was intentional I agree but it looked like an accident to me.  The player wasn't even looking at Crosby IMO and was skating up ice.

 

Parsad - I agree with your instigator comments.  I also agree a player should have to fight.

 

When Mike Richards crushed that dude Boothe from Florida, he let Boothe fight him the next time around.  Richards gave him a clean shot, but I wasn't really loving that hit.  You love to see the opposition get punished, not crippled.  I think 99.9% of the players and fans buy into that.

 

But still, F Mario.

[Guest Bronco]

Yeah - I just watched the Winter Classic highlights and Crosby turned his head and skated into the guy.  Unfortunate yes, but no way intentional.

[omagh]

I think that they should introduce an aggressor jeopardy rule.  When a player is injured due to in-game violence, the aggressor is penalized an equivalent number of games as the injured player is out.  If a guy loses his career, the aggressor is suspended indefinitely (e.g. Bertuzzi).  Of course, there should be oversight/review to determine intentionality and to prevent injured players from sitting out indefinitely.  The league should man up and take some responsibility for the athletes whose careers are at risk from the goons.  The governance of the league is weak and caters to the lowest common denominator.

 

Lemieux's point is directionally correct, but suffers from glass houses syndrome.

 

-O

 

Yeah, he turned, but the player hit him in the head with his shoulder when he was vulnerable.  I believe in big hockey hits, but not when the puck is nowhere near the player, and not when they are vulnerable.  

 

You throw a big open ice hit when the guy is trying to skate through the other team...fine.  You hit shoulder to shoulder on the boards...fine.  But hits when the player is facing the glass, rushing to tag the icing, away from the play...nope!  Look at the hit by Getzlaf on Hamhuis last week, and Hamhuis was completely knocked out.  I don't think that was a bad hit...it was more of an accident as Hamhuis turned...and I'm a Vancouver fan.  But cheapshots to the head, especially on the star players...it's bad for the game!

 

And yes, guys like Cooke have to go, or get rid of the instigator penalty so players can patrol and control the cheap shot artists.  I think guys like Cooke, Pronger, etc...they should have to fight after a dirty hit.  Cheers!  

[Guest Bronco]

I won't comment anymore - since there are a lot of Canadians here I just wanted to stir the pot.

 

Most players have respect but there are bad apples. And if you commit the sin and don't stand trial, these types of events will escalate.  Mario should know this and let Talbot answer the call and that would be that.

[Parsad]

I won't comment anymore - since there are a lot of Canadians here I just wanted to stir the pot.

 

You East Coast guys are such muckrakers!  I'm glad Cooke, Pronger and Avery are all over there. 

 

By the way, we've pulled away from Detroit and are slowly pulling away from Philly.  Our top three defencemen are all hurt, and we still have the best goals for/against differential by a country mile!  Canucks to take the cup baby!  40 years of frustration will be wiped away in a few months.  Cheers! 

[uncommonprofits]

Crosby didn't get hit in the head by a 'shoulder' - rather, he was hit in the head by a 'shoulder pad' medieval vest of armor.  So called shoulder 'pads' and elbow 'pads' are not meant to protect anymore -- they are intended to injure.  Well ok they are meant to protect - but only in the sense that the other guy is wearing them, so you best be prepared.  

 

Crosby was definitely blindsided.  It's questionable whether it was intentional - but it's quite probable that lighter equipment would have lessened the impact - possibly even prevented a concussion altogether.  The league needs to look at equipment.  Thicker, stronger shoulder and elbow pads made out of more massive rock like plastic are not preventing injuries - they are increasing them.  This stuff is starting to look more and more like football equipment!

 

 

[augustabound]

Crosby didn't get hit in the head by a 'shoulder' - rather, he was hit in the head by a 'shoulder pad' medieval vest of armor.  

 

Don Cherry commented on that a few weeks ago.  Back in the day with those little shoulder pads we used to wear, you felt the hit when you gave it or got it.  Now a days, they all feel invincible with their battle armour on and are just reckless.

 

As a life long Oiler fan, I was pissed when Pronger demanded a trade.  When I found out why he wanted a trade, I wasn't as pissed.  Now that he's a big oaf and a big whiner too, I'm kind of glad he's gone.  (Maybe he always was both, but I just might have had the blinders on the year or so he was in Edmonton  8) )

 

.......................and count me in as a Crosby hater.  The constant whining drives me crazy.  Compare him to Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman or Messier if you want, but the last thing any one of those guys is, is a whiner.

[Smazz]

Am I the only one who probably feels the worst (except for the player that was injured/sucker punched) for Goddard?

 

Shit he is probably the lowest paid guy on the team and he has to jump the bench knowing he is going to get suspended for 10 games pay to defend his goalie.

 

The sad part for him is his goalie was already getting the better of that  minor leaguer anyway.

 

 

[Parsad]

The constant whining drives me crazy.  Compare him to Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman or Messier if you want, but the last thing any one of those guys is, is a whiner.

 

Do any of you guys remember what the atmosphere was like, when all those mentioned above were young, except for Messier? 

 

- Gretzky was called as big a whiner as Crosby is today, and Cherry used to make fun of him all the time because Semenko and McSorley had to fight for him.  Today, he's the greatest player ever to play, and virtually everyone, including Cherry, hold him in the highest esteem.

 

- Lemieux was a class-A a-hole when he was younger.  People thought his attitude was atrocious.  It wasn't until he became a bit older that this whole love-affair with Lemieux began...especially after he was diagnosed with Hodgkins, and later in life when he became a statesman for the game. 

 

- And the guy that most people consider the greatest captain in hockey history...Yzerman...was considered a perennial loser.  I can remember how so many in the media used to say that he had all the skill in the world, but couldn't win anything.  Guess what?  He not only won three Stanley Cups, he won the last one with only one leg functioning and broken ribs, while carrying the team on his back.

 

It will be the same way for Crosby.  He's almost guaranteed to a be Hall-of-Famer, and he's on pace barring injury to surpass Messier's points total if he stays healthy.  At the very least he'll be up there with Sakic and Yzerman.  Call him whiner if you want now...in ten years you'll be calling him one of the greatest players ever.  Cheers!

[Guest Bronco]

Parsad, no denying your comments unless he gets concussion no. 2.  Already it is my opinion he should sit this year out.  Way too young a player to risk his career.  Articles in the local papers about how Primeau still has issues. 

 

I hate Crosby but it is more fun to hate him on the ice.  And if you beat a team without their great players, big deal. 

[Guest Dazel]

 

Alright!!! You guys drew me in!

 

Bronco,

 

You are blessed with the best captain of the league in Mike Richards.....However, as I make my point you will see the difference between individual talent and leadership compared to leadership on a team of superstars.

 

Gretzky-Messier,Coffey, Anderson, Kurri, Fuhr, Lowe

protected by Semenko and McSorley

As a captain....shut up and score...no leadership needed.

 

Lemiueux-Jagr, Stevens (at the time), Kovalev (young), coffey, Barrasso (probably the best U.S born golaie ever)

Lemiuex was a whinner early in his career because they were losing...they brought superstars...again shot up and score.

 

Stevie Y (my idol)-Federov, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Shannahan...and the great Scotty Bowman.

 

Crosby-Malkin ( he is hurt half the time)....who else? the rest of the team is terrible...I would alude the whinning to frustration...give him the superstars of the other guys...he will be quiet just like they became!

 

Mike Richards-Carter, Briere, Giroux, Pronger, Versteeg (now), and very good supporting cast...Unfortunately goaltending is a problem Bronco!

 

Ovie-Backstrom,green,Semin, Knuble

 

Give Crosby a break!!!for the love of god!!! What more can one man do.

 

Sanjeev...I too would like to see Vancouver win..however, you are short on the backend and it makes Luongo look bad sometimes...but you need more horses on D!

 

 

 

Dazel.

 

[Guest Bronco]

I gave Crosby a break.  I was wishing him good health.

 

I don't like him, but he is great for the game and want to see him on the ice. 

 

Don't want to see anyone hurt - more times than not the hockey players are good guys off the ice and don't deserve people wishing them injury.  One exception is Avery from the Rangers - I'll leave that at that.

 

Richards is a great captain but there were rumors of drinking a year ago.  Still, great leader.

 

Flyers are deep but maybe lack a little grit.  But deep at forward and d-men.  Goalies are good but not great.

 

I was opining on Mario b/c I thought he was way out of line.  Watching hockey coverage last night and the analysts said essentially the same thing - a little hypocritical when Cooke is the worst in the league.  Also, apparently, Pitt has most fights and most penalty minutes. 

 

Every team takes a cheap shot here and there b/c it just happens but most times it gets settled on the ice.  As it should.  If Talbot just faced the music a lot of this could have been avoided.

 

 

[Parsad]

Tell it like it is Dazel!  ;D

 

Sanjeev...I too would like to see Vancouver win..however, you are short on the backend and it makes Luongo look bad sometimes...but you need more horses on D!

 

You know, we had the best defensive core of any team, and now four of our top seven are hurt. 

 

- #1 Defenceman - Edler...out with surgery...maybe back for the playoffs.

- #2 Defencemen - Hamhuis...concussion...day to day, but could be weeks like Crosby.

- #6 Defencemen - Ballard...out with MCL sprain...could be weeks.

- #7 Defencemen - Alberts...went down yesterday with a broken wrist...long-term, maybe playoffs.

- Lea Sweatt...rookie call-up is out with a broken foot

 

The only fortunate thing is that our #3 (Salo) is back, and our #4 (Erhoff) & #5 (Bieksa) are still ok.  We've had to call up another minor leaguer so we can have five defencemen tonight against Minnesota!  Cheers!

[Guest Bronco]

I'll take the Flyers 6 D-men any day.

 

However, I wouldn't mind switching goalies w/ Vancouver, even for a week.