Political Posts

[dwy000]

2 minutes ago, Sweet said:

I don’t really accept your argument on a couple of grounds.

The rules are variable between states, and quite lax in general, that it makes it hard to detect fraud in the first place.

 

Fraud does occur, probably not at a level which changes elections though, but the degree is unknown because of all the mail in voting, lack of ID etc.

 

What we do know is that is a large amount of discontent with the process, and with a large population of illegal immigrants, and that more scrutiny is needed.

 

One of your arguments against tightening rules around voting, rules which many other Western democracies already have, is that you shouldn’t ‘capitulate to (Trump’s) lies’.  But that shows you are beholden to Trump and see this as a partisan issue which you must deny him a win on.  From my point of view, there is no good reason not to improve voting if you really cared about democratic integrity.

 

My argument isnt about capitulation to Trump narrowly. Its more broad in that there will always be sore losers and discontented supporters and you dont change the rules because someone didn't like the outcome.  You change the rules because they are wrong.  And thats not the case here.  If we changed FIFA rules after every country that lost complained about the rule book, the World Cup would be unplayable. 

 

If there is proven large scale fraud, by all means something needs to be fixed.  But thats definitely not the case.  Not a single proven case of large scale fraud has been held up anywhere.  When it is, I fully support fixing it. But the current process works and making it harder for people to vote should not be the goal. 

[cubsfan]

1 hour ago, whiskybravo said:

 

My understanding is that it’s a witness interview from an investigation, not the investigation’s final conclusions.  Authorities ultimately concluded there were fraudulent voter registration applications submitted by canvassers trying to get paid, but local election officials flagged the suspicious registrations and there wasn’t evidence that fraudulent ballots were cast or counted because of them. 

Reminds me of Charlie’s principle: Show me the incentive and I’ll show you the outcome.

 

Your understanding is correct that this is a participant's summary to the FBI.

 

I am not an attorney, but I do believe it is a Federal crime to pay someone to vote and/or pay someone to register to vote. It certainly is a crime to forge names, falsify SOME Federal documents, etc..

 

I have seen no Federal charges in the Michigan situation.  And I am not claim such. The situation is developing. 

 

Everyone is entitled to due process.

[adesigar]

15 minutes ago, dwy000 said:

My argument isnt about capitulation to Trump narrowly. Its more broad in that there will always be sore losers and discontented supporters and you dont change the rules because someone didn't like the outcome.  You change the rules because they are wrong.  And thats not the case here.  If we changed FIFA rules after every country that lost complained about the rule book, the World Cup would be unplayable. 

 

If there is proven large scale fraud, by all means something needs to be fixed.  But thats definitely not the case.  Not a single proven case of large scale fraud has been held up anywhere.  When it is, I fully support fixing it. But the current process works and making it harder for people to vote should not be the goal. 

 

The Republicans need to make it harder for people to vote otherwise how will they win? 
 

Why do you think they oppose moving Voting day to a weekend or making it a holiday? They don’t want people to vote.

 

Why do you think in cities in republican run states there are so few voting sites. So there can be multiple hours long lines only in the cities so less people will vote.

 

[adesigar]

3 minutes ago, cubsfan said:

 

Your understanding is correct that this is a participant's summary to the FBI.

 

I am not an attorney, but I do believe it is a Federal crime to pay someone to vote and/or pay someone to register to vote. It certainly is a crime to forge names, falsify SOME Federal documents, etc..

 

I have seen no Federal charges in the Michigan situation.  And I am not claim such. The situation is developing. 

 

Everyone is entitled to due process.

 

And I give you the Republican Party and Elom Musk.

 

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/5941842-musk-america-pac-lawsuit/amp/

[cubsfan]

1 hour ago, dwy000 said:

The key point is that the current system works.  Without any fraud. There has almost never been an issue before Trump and the only reason a portion of the population even considers fraud now is because the world's biggest liar keeps yelling it because he lost (and his cult members believe anything he says).  Publicly changing something that works because someone who lost doesnt like the outcome is not a solution, its a capitulation to lies.  After all these years there has not been a single proven case of meaningful fraud (again, except Trump asking for votes to be found).  Not one. If there IS fraud, fix the system.  But thats not the case here. 

 

Indeed that is incorrect - I gave you several examples of Democratic leaders & a Presidential candidate that repeatedly claimed Russia & Trump colluded to throw the 2016 election.  I gave you examples of the 2004 Bush/Gore contest where Democrats screamed election fraud in Ohio.

 

Democrats were unable to stop the Presidential confirmation process - although they went to great lengths to do so.