Elon Musk...human? - Political

[Red Lion]

4 hours ago, flesh said:

 

 

most of us know the benefits of free trade by now, this video will familiarize you with both sides. Notice who won. It’s not simple. 
 

“He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that.“

I wish we had debates like this on national television in the US. 

[Xerxes]

3 hours ago, flesh said:

Ya so I’m not sure exactly what your point is, if it’s that we decided to do this or is it that we needed to? Not sure how to fairly arbitrate this. Would you have done it? You could have helped more. What would have happened if we didn’t? Maybe you can help me here but having a hard time drawing a straight line to , we chose freely to do that. It seems that we all joined together but we paid disproportionately for it? Are you saying we are more successful because we led and spent a f ton of money to lead? Like the counter factual would be that you could have led and been more successful if you had spent a f ton of money on defense and trying to improve the world? 

 

This would be a 1,000 pages long PhD thesis looking all the different permutations, beyond my puny mind. I have no idea if you would have been more or less successful in a what if scenario. 

 

U.S. chose to lead and stand-up for the Western civilization in the 1940s. But it was not all charity, Marshall Plan may have been seem like charity, but I promise you it was done as an investment with an eye on the Soviet Union and how easy a war ravaged Europe would succumb for the communism. If there was not Soviet Union, Europe would have had no Marshall Plan. 

 

Everything since than, it has been to reinforce its global hegemony, through wars, coup d'etat, interventions, military or economically etc. I hope I am not breaking news here. Whoever voted the neoconservatives to power 20 years ago, are probably the same people that are now donning the MAGA hats. They had their fun and a go at gunboat diplomacy and nation building, now they are having a go at being isolationist. 

 

U.S. presidents were elected by the American people. Their decision represents the will of the people. Right or wrong. As an example, it is not Canada' fault that U.S. had to go off the gold standard, because Vietnam was costing too much. Who elected your presidents then and what was their policy vis a vis the dreaded RED threat. Were those policy and views vis a vis communism overblown. Seem like it. Just a decade later, a new approach was made.

 

You collectively voted in those leaders, and lived under that umbrella, thumb your chests for them, and your corporations benefitted immensely because of it as new markets opened up. Not too mention that flow of oil that fueled the growth of your economy, even as you militarized the region. .... and we don't want to even talk about the mess in the middle east either.

 

So own up to your own past, the things you have done, ... before demanding to annex your allies and wipe out their identity, through economic subjugation, as sort of a weird bizzarro payment, because it costs to much to maintain the empire, and you don't feel like doing it anymore. ... and then having the audacity to threaten more retaliation, because Canada is not rolling over fast enough.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, flesh said:

For the sake of us down here, I’ll just concede and say, yes , we did lead forever, y’all benefitted from it, now we would like to continue to lead but can’t afford to pay your way too. That ship has sailed, we’re not blaming you I mean shit, who doesn’t want a free ride? I’d take it any day. Smart of y’all to do so. That’s over. There’s new and serious competition on the horizon and we’re going to lead us all to the promised land but moneys gotta be spent on ai, energy infrastructure of all sorts, military tech, etc so that none of us ever have to seriously worry about those that are not aligned. We need total independence so that we can’t be controlled. We need to do some serious strategic on shoring which means we’ll have to buy less from others. When we continue to win we’ll share it all with you and not others. 
 

we’ve voted to end the previous version. The new version means we have to negotiate. We aren’t asking to be paid retrospectively. We are saying look, there’s  money in trade, money in defense, etc and they’re all part of the renegotiation. If we are going to pay your defense you will be compensating us somehow, it may be in trade or otherwise. If you’re not going to pay us for defense and you’re not going to pay for it directly, why would we want to partner up with you for defense?   How is this in good faith competition and comparative advantage on a level playing field? 
 

Im not sure that I understand the word blame how you used it. If blame is pointing to facts that have cost us tens of billion.. that’s not a fair use. Otoh trump uses heated rhetoric so I guess you mean when he says things like “they are ripping us off”. If that’s the case, I agree, he doesn’t need to say that and could do things differently. That does sound like blaming. Insofar as you’ve promised to pay for something and haven’t paid for it.. blame would be accurate? However maybe he does need to say that to get elected idk politics is crazy. 
 

 

If U.S. wants to abdicate its global leadership role. So be it.

People have demanded change. Make it happen.

 

And I (and anybody else) have no problems with U.S. discussing legitimate and unfair trade practices. But we all know there is more to it than that. The Trump Administration is seeking a casus belli.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, flesh said:

I’ve lived for a year in fontainebleau and barcelona.. just a couple months in Canada … I’ve felt disliked by Europeans since I first went there in 2001. Back then it was something about bush bad, I was 22. I don’t expect them to like me more now that they have to pay their own bills.. their politicians will never say it that way, they’ll just hear nonsense, like trumps says “grab em by the pussy”and believe it like everyone else. Is what it is. Hopefully it’s just an acute phase. 

 

 

I was in India for three weeks, right after fresh off the Canadian-Indian spats.

 

All the Indian tour guides I met, looked at me in a funny way, ask me about Trudeau by name. Some of them even asked me, "if Canadians don't like Indians"; i had no idea where that came from. In my book that shit is between government not people;

 

But it wasn't complicated either, i just had to show them that i am not some asshole from the West. I think they bought it.  since I had a great time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Xerxes