What are your average yearly household living expenses?

[yadayada]

Married, two kids (6 and 3) both in private school. We live in Mexico city and we are above 130k.

 

heh.  i used to live near mexico city.  but my annual expenses at the time were more like 10k.

Those gated communities and bodyguards add up ;) .

 

No but seriously, how safe is mexico city?

[DanielGMask]

We do live in a gated community and we do have services not usual for the US, like two maids for cleaning and cooking. Safety is an issue and I think it will always be an issue here, for example, I don't drive the car I would like because I don't want to attract attention to myself and I've been robbed a couple of times because of my watch (I no longer have a good watch in my wrist). Still, if you are discrete you can live your whole life here without any trouble!

 

Married, two kids (6 and 3) both in private school. We live in Mexico city and we are above 130k.

 

heh.  i used to live near mexico city.  but my annual expenses at the time were more like 10k.

Those gated communities and bodyguards add up ;) .

 

No but seriously, how safe is mexico city?

[Liberty]

What about yourself, Liberty, since you asked the question?

 

Our average (me, my wife, 1 kid) for the past few years has been CAD $37-38k. One third of that is rent.

 

We save multiples of what we spend, which is the way I like it.

[rkbabang]

My total in 2014 for 4 people (2 adults, 2 teenagers) living in the North East (NH) was about $110K total.  The break down is:

 

$37K Mortgage. Includes P&I, $10.8K Taxes, & $1.6K insurance.

$4K Electricity Bills

$1K Auto Insurance

$68K Credit Card Payments.  We put everything except what is listed above on our cards and pay the balance in full each month.  This is an exact number, but I'll estimate the break down off the top of my head:

      About:

        $6K home heating oil

        $1.6K Firewood

        $2.7K Comcast (internet/cable/phone)

        $15K Vacations/Travel

        $4K car repairs (both cars needed an unusual amount this year)

        $4K Chimney repairs and relining

        $5K for 3 garage doors replaced

        $2K for new heating oil tank in basement

        About $800/month in Groceries

        And the rest is everything else we purchased:

          restaurants, gasoline, entertainment, electronics, gifts, clothing, other house repairs, etc...

 

Obviously the house is the largest expense.  It's over 3800 sqft, 247 years old, and uninsulated, so heating and A/C are major expenses.  We've been here 3 years and will probably be putting it on the market in the spring.  Our previous house was new construction, smaller, and much cheaper to run, we want to go back to something like that.  We've discovered that we don't really need a 3800 sqft house, there are rooms in our house that we don't even use.  The kids are teenagers, so in 4-5 years or so it will be just my wife and I which will make this house even more ridiculously too large.

 

[innerscorecard]

What about yourself, Liberty, since you asked the question?

 

Our average (me, my wife, 1 kid) for the past few years has been CAD $37-38k. One third of that is rent.

 

We save multiples of what we spend, which is the way I like it.

 

Are you also pursuing FIRE and/or are you a Mustachian/EREist?

[Liberty]

Are you also pursuing FIRE and/or are you a Mustachian/EREist?

 

I don't know what those acronyms are, so probably not. But I'm guessing they are programs/goals that the frugal community uses? I'll look them up..

 

For me, the gist is: When I moved out of my parents' place and had to start paying for more of my stuff, I spent a while learning about how to be more frugal (and I already was quite money-efficient, mostly because as a kid I valued free time more than money and so didn't want to work at crappy jobs, so I stretched every dollar that I received to avoid having to go work). I got the 'Complete Tightwad Gazette', read The Simple Dollar and other similar blogs that were popular at the time (Mr. Money Mustache became popular a bit later, so I know about it, but I haven't really read it), etc.

 

I don't do all the stuff that they preach, but I've picked up many ideas and concepts that have saved me many many thousands of dollars without any noticeable effect on my wellbeing (I don't feel I'm making any sacrifices). The most important thing is the mindset of always asking: "Is this worth the price? How many hours have I worked to earn that money? How much happiness/dollar does this provide? Would I be happier with the money in my pocket? As happy with a cheaper alternative?"

 

For me the goal of money has never been to buy lots of stuff, it has always been independence, which I value above pretty much all else.

 

Update: For those who, like me, were wondering about the acronyms:

 

ER = Early Retirement

ERE = Early Retirement Extreme. Also refers to the website of the same name and its philosophies.

FIRE = Financially Independent, Retiring Early. (or some variation of those words) No two definitions of "independent" and "early" and "retirement" are the same for Mustachians. Some use just FI or just RE sometimes because they are talking about one but not the other in a post.

 

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/all-these-acronyms!/

[Ham Hockers]

I would bet the people who are high spenders here save a lot more than others may assume.

[innerscorecard]

Are you also pursuing FIRE and/or are you a Mustachian/EREist?

 

I don't know what those acronyms are, so probably not. But I'm guessing they are programs/goals that the frugal community uses? I'll look them up..

 

For me, the gist is: When I moved out of my parents' place and had to start paying for more of my stuff, I spent a while learning about how to be more frugal (and I already was quite money-efficient, mostly because as a kid I valued free time more than money and so didn't want to work at crappy jobs, so I stretched every dollar that I received to avoid having to go work). I got the 'Complete Tightwad Gazette', read The Simple Dollar and other similar blogs that were popular at the time (Mr. Money Mustache became popular a bit later, so I know about it, but I haven't really read it), etc.

 

I don't do all the stuff that they preach, but I've picked up many ideas and concepts that have saved me many many thousands of dollars without any noticeable effect on my wellbeing (I don't feel I'm making any sacrifices). The most important thing is the mindset of always asking: "Is this worth the price? How many hours have I worked to earn that money? How much happiness/dollar does this provide? Would I be happier with the money in my pocket? As happy with a cheaper alternative?"

 

For me the goal of money has never been to buy lots of stuff, it has always been independence, which I value above pretty much all else.

 

Sorry for using the jargon.

 

To me, there is are a few complementary mental models that the financial independence and frugality movement really lean on. One of them, which I can see in your post, is the idea of the hedonic treadmill. Beyond a certain point, you aren't really happier by spending more money anyways. In fact, living in a way that is more "efficient" can actually make you happier, by making you more self-reliant and independent-minded and resilient. It also has the effect of making your life a lot more purposeful as your decisions seem to be more well-thought-out and thus more appropriate for you than just doing whatever's expected.

 

That's how I think about it anyways.

[rkbabang]

I would bet the people who are high spenders here save a lot more than others may assume.

 

Sounds like another poll.  One of my goals is to get my savings/spending ratio >=1 and keep it there.  Right now it is just under 0.5, but I've had some unusual expenses this year, including spending more than usual on travel, car repairs and the house.  It is an achievable goal if I down size the house a bit.

 

 

[innerscorecard]

I would bet the people who are high spenders here save a lot more than others may assume.

 

Sure, especially in terms of quantity. Those of us in a more inferior position in life need to save more to make up for it.

 

But it's interesting to me always to see people who want to retire but don't due to monetary issues, who actually have many times the amount of money needed to retire and sustain a better-than-average lifestyle. And these are people who are financial executives and also experienced investors.

[Liberty]

I would bet the people who are high spenders here save a lot more than others may assume.

 

I'm sure it's true for many.

 

I know that if I made millions a year, I would have no problem spending 500k or whatever; my goal is to be independent, not to spend as little as possible. I'm not sure what I'd spend all that money on, as I don't have expensive tastes (technology has made most of the coolest things in life inexpensive... a top of the line iPhone and Mac, a fast internet connection, a good stereo, and all the books I can read..  not a very expensive proposition). I'd probably just get a really nice house in a quiet spot, get a Tesla, a cook, a helper for the kid, I'd add a few zeros to my donation to the SENS Foundation, and that's about it...

 

But it's also true in general (maybe not on this forum) that many people who make a lot spend everything (and more) and don't have much saved. It's the old Ben Franklin line...

[oddballstocks]

I would bet the people who are high spenders here save a lot more than others may assume.

 

I'm sure it's true for many.

 

I know that if I made millions a year, I would have no problem spending 500k or whatever; my goal is to be independent, not to spend as little as possible. I'm not sure what I'd spend all that money on, as I don't have expensive tastes (technology has made most of the coolest things in life inexpensive... a top of the line iPhone and Mac, a fast internet connection, a good stereo, and all the books I can read..  not a very expensive proposition). I'd probably just get a really nice house in a quiet spot, get a Tesla, a cook, a helper for the kid, I'd add a few zeros to my donation to the SENS Foundation, and that's about it...

 

But it's also true in general (maybe not on this forum) that many people who make a lot spend everything (and more) and don't have much saved. It's the old Ben Franklin line...

 

I think about this sometimes.  If I had a few million that I had to spend, but couldn't buy a house/car/boat/rv/lawyer how could I possibly spend the money?  Maybe the guy churning through $10m a year can help answer, but I have no idea how I'd spend hundreds of thousands or millions a year without the big purchases.  But to the guy spending $10m a year maybe a $1m house yearly isn't really big, it'd be like someone who makes $100k buying a $10k item yearly. 

 

Part of it is that I've never been wealthy and probably haven't been exposed to truly expensive things.  I'm sure there are places charging outrageous prices for things that I'm unaware of.

[Liberty]

Part of it is that I've never been wealthy and probably haven't been exposed to truly expensive things.  I'm sure there are places charging outrageous prices for things that I'm unaware of.

 

For lots of things, you can spend as much as you want. The thing is, a lot of the 'value' in the very expensive stuff is positional. It's about signalling your wealth to others. The things themselves are often only marginally better functionally than much, much cheaper alternatives, or better but in ways that don't matter that much in the grand scheme of things... If you spend $10k on a handbag, it's all about intangibles. It won't hold your stuff better, and you can get top quality materials and workmanship for a lot less than that.

 

So if like me you don't give a crap about social hierarchy and signalling wealth and all that, the super-luxury things are not worth it. Buffett doesn't live in the same house and drive old hail-damaged cars out of sacrifice to make a point; he just doesn't care about that crap, it doesn't rank high on his inner scorecard.

[gfp]

"If I had a few million that I had to spend, but couldn't buy a house/car/boat/rv/lawyer how could I possibly spend the money?"

 

International luxury travel can add up - especially if you are flying private.  The most conspicuous consumers I know spend a lot on travel, a lot on renovations of properties, a lot on "pet projects" - exotic tree farm with a 'writing cabin' in the middle anyone?...  And a lot on gifts of high-end items to others, including family.  Having a family full of private school tuitions and private university tuitions can add up as well.

 

I know someone who spends tens of thousands a year just to have someone on call to fix the wi-fi in their home when it goes out (which is constantly)...  It's ridiculous.

[rkbabang]

I would bet the people who are high spenders here save a lot more than others may assume.

 

I'm sure it's true for many.

 

I know that if I made millions a year, I would have no problem spending 500k or whatever; my goal is to be independent, not to spend as little as possible. I'm not sure what I'd spend all that money on, as I don't have expensive tastes (technology has made most of the coolest things in life inexpensive... a top of the line iPhone and Mac, a fast internet connection, a good stereo, and all the books I can read..  not a very expensive proposition). I'd probably just get a really nice house in a quiet spot, get a Tesla, a cook, a helper for the kid, I'd add a few zeros to my donation to the SENS Foundation, and that's about it...

 

But it's also true in general (maybe not on this forum) that many people who make a lot spend everything (and more) and don't have much saved. It's the old Ben Franklin line...

 

I think about this sometimes.  If I had a few million that I had to spend, but couldn't buy a house/car/boat/rv/lawyer how could I possibly spend the money?  Maybe the guy churning through $10m a year can help answer, but I have no idea how I'd spend hundreds of thousands or millions a year without the big purchases.  But to the guy spending $10m a year maybe a $1m house yearly isn't really big, it'd be like someone who makes $100k buying a $10k item yearly. 

 

Part of it is that I've never been wealthy and probably haven't been exposed to truly expensive things.  I'm sure there are places charging outrageous prices for things that I'm unaware of.

 

If you traveled a lot you could go through an enormous amount of money that way.  1st class flights (or even charter), top priced hotel suites, crazy expensive restaurants 3 times per day, etc...

 

[rkbabang]

 

I know someone who spends tens of thousands a year just to have someone on call to fix the wi-fi in their home when it goes out (which is constantly)...  It's ridiculous.

 

Seriously?  I need to start charging my friend/family when they call me with their computer/network problems.... :)

 

My wifi router is about 3 years old and I think I needed to unplug it and plug it back in once or twice in that time, but other than that no problems.  It sounds like this person you know should just buy a new router and fire his tech guy.

 

[innerscorecard]

I purposely try to stay ignorant of ways to spend money. If I literally can't imagine it, I can't be jealous and thus unhappy for no reason.

[gfp]

 

I know someone who spends tens of thousands a year just to have someone on call to fix the wi-fi in their home when it goes out (which is constantly)...  It's ridiculous.

 

Seriously?  I need to start charging my friend/family when they call me with their computer/network problems.... :)

 

My wifi router is about 3 years old and I think I needed to unplug it and plug it back in once or twice in that time, but other than that no problems.  It sounds like this person you know should just buy a new router and fire his tech guy.

 

 

It's several houses that are attached by breezeway / hallway thingies.  With multiple guest structures, etc...  I think the stucco wire mesh creates some type of faraday cage that makes the wi-fi system fairly complicated.  But old people can't fix that type of stuff.  They CAN throw tantrums when the wi-fi doesn't work at their home but works perfectly at an $8/night hostel...

[AzCactus]

I'm thinking about 12K...granted I'm in my 20's and my girlfriend and I split household expenses right down the middle. 

[Liberty]

I'm thinking about 12K...granted I'm in my 20's and my girlfriend and I split household expenses right down the middle.

 

The question was for 'household' expenses, so that would include you and your girlfriend (so 24k, if you split down the middle).

[DanielGMask]

The jewish comunity in Mexico made an informal study about what was the necessary income for a family of four with kids in a jewish private school (as mine are) and concluded that the minimum amount for having a good quality of life in Mexico City was 40k per year.

 

The same study states that having an income of about 70k grants you all the luxuries necessary for having a happy life. And finally it says that money above that 70k threshold won't improve your happiness.

 

Still, in my house we spend a lot more than that and even though there's an explanation, that study states we don't need to travel that much to be happy!

[AzCactus]

I'm thinking about 12K...granted I'm in my 20's and my girlfriend and I split household expenses right down the middle.

 

The question was for 'household' expenses, so that would include you and your girlfriend (so 24k, if you split down the middle).

 

We don't need to split hairs but in my situation the 12K number includes funds that I use annually. "Our" household expenses:rent, food, utilities etc are split (and probably $7500 of the $12K) but "my" personal expenses such as: car insurance, cell phone, clothes etc are paid on my own.  However, my girlfriend probably spends a little bit more than me on clothes, make up and other items so the figure is probably in the $26-$28K range.   

[sys]

When was that and where? The school of my kids costs more than that!

 

it was several years back - 2005-2010 or so.  inflation was pretty noticeable then, so i doubt if i could still live there now in the same way for the same money.

 

i lived in atlacomulco, north of toluca.  as a poor grad student, just my girlfriend and myself, so it was pretty easy to keep expenses minimal.  we basically just paid for rent, gasoline, food and internet.

[james22]

Single, living overseas in Company-provided housing, my living expenses are no more than $12,00/year. Travel, toys, and entertainment another $12,000.

 

Allows me to save/invest near 90%/year.

 

(Yes, it'll be a shock to return home.)

[rayfinkle]

Oh man, this is depressing! For better or worse, living in SF means that my rent alone is more than the majority of posters' total spend. Married + 1 kid in SF, annual running $100k-110k

 

-$50k rent + utilities (crappy neighborhood even! wife can't walk alone at night). As an aside, rental market in SF / silicon valley is outrageous. friends of mine signing new leases now are paying ~$2k to rent a room in a 4 br house. Nothing fancy either. Every rental has competition, and bids to buy are all cash. Loco.

-$20k daycare

-$12-15k food

-$20k leisure (travel, etc.)--a lot of traveling for friends weddings...

 

We stick pretty firm to a fairly lean budget. The only way (without compromising physical safety) to seriously trim on the big line items is to move out of the city--but the 2-3 hour commute required to actually make the trade worth it is not worth it to me...

 

Could probably improve the after tax savings by moving to a more affordable part of the country (could buy a great house where I grew up for 4 years rent, for example)--but I love the work out here and there's a lot of exciting companies in this part of the country (not the stupid apps, and ones that no value investor would touch)!